Is a child of God always in the grace, love, and kingdom of God?

[know1]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

The condition is through faith. To apostate is to abandon faith.

Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[Gideon300]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

God allows us to endure trials of many kinds. We are exhorted not to get discouraged or to complain. Trials are a part of Christian growth. (1 Peter 4:12)

God's grace is huge, greater than any trial, greater than any problem that we might face and greater than any danger. It's not always what we imagine, expect or even pray for. Many years ago, I need a tooth pulled. I prayed that it would be easy and painless. It was a two hour ordeal that left me shattered. Yet I could even joke with the dentist. He had to send the rest of his patients home. I said I'd go home and we could finish tomorrow. Sure, with the job nowhere near done. What good came out of that? I'd worried about my teeth for decades. The dentist told me that my jaw was like iron and my teeth the toughest he'd had to treat. Grace does not prevent troubles, but it enables us to endure and overcome.

Spiritually, we fall from grace when we trust anything but the finished work of Jesus for our salvation. That can happen through false teaching, pride, rebellion, complacency or ignorance. It does not mean that we lose our eternal life. It does mean that God will leave us to our own resources, which will inevitably lead to failure and defeat. Grace welcomes us back after we learn our lesson.

The church in Corinth had turned to false teachers, as Paul stated in his second letter. They were at risk of receiving God's grace in vain. (2 Corinthians 6:1). To understand Paul's statement, we have to read the preceding chapters.

The some of the Galatians had fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). Why? They fell for the false teaching that we have to obey the Law to be saved. Were they still born again? Yes. But some at least were deceived. How could they be restored to grace? By repenting and confessing their sin. And it surely is sin to deny that the death and resurrection of Christ is not enough to save us.

Some years God spoke to me. asking "How were you save?" I thought about and replied, "By grace". He asked me, "What saves you today?" I considered that also. "Grace" God spoke again, "What will save you tomorrow?" I got the point by then. Grace.

The old song says that grace is greater than all our sin. That is true but only in part. Grace is greater than the world, the flesh, self and Satan. Grace is Jesus doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves. What can we do for ourselves? Nothing of any spiritual worth (John 15:5). Oh, we can do many things, do many good works and form great ministries. I assure you that anything done apart from the leading and empowerment of Christ is nothing in God's sight.

 

[Leastofall]

I believe that a portion of God's grace is given to every human that finds them selves waking to greet a new day.
As long as the gift of forgiveness is offered by God so shall his grace be.
The Lord not only created mankind he sustains it. Offering life eternal for those who chose to believe.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

look how thier actions impact it

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭

notice how these are warnings written to the same people he has said this to in the same epistle earlier

for instance chapter 2
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That shouldn’t be taken in a vacuum but with the rest of nt he epistle which earns about our behavior and the resulting inheritance we can’t serve sin and also inherit the kingdom of God

The children of God your asking about have a doctrine like this

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬

they are children either way but thier actions determine the result according to the son of God who came to teach the doctrine that makes children of God

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus doctrine is the truth about agod and his children it tells us all we wish to know about the relationship

 

[studentoftheword]

If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.

But is that all it is?

No ----

AI
"hen" in Hebrew can indeed be associated with grace, favor, and even mercy, it's more accurately understood as "grace" or "favor" and encompasses healing, vindication, and strength


Grace is not just something God extends out to us -----Grace is actually a Person ----God is full of Grace ---Grace is part of God's character -----Jesus came Full of Grace and Truth ----Jesus is Grace ----

That is why God said to Paul my grace is sufficient ---

Corinthians 12:9, where Paul writes, "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.

the Greek word for----- power here
dýnamis (able, having ability") – properly, "ability to perform" (L-N); for the believer, power to achieve by applying the Lord's inherent abilities. "Power through God's ability"

So weakness here means a couple of things -----it can be a physical sickness or it can be a Spiritual harassment from Satan --which was the case for Paul -----

Strong"s Concordance ===
The term "astheneia" primarily denotes a state of weakness or lack of strength. In the New Testament, it is used both in a physical sense, referring to bodily ailments or sickness, and in a metaphorical sense, indicating moral or spiritual weakness. It often highlights human frailty and the need for divine strength.

Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?

God's Agape ---Love is free and unconditional to all people ---always

There are several types of graces -----that God gives ----only one is free

there is Common Grace --is temporal ---------which is given freely to all people ------no conditions --when you open your eyes in the morning --your alive by God's Grace ===for the just and the unjust --God allows rain and sun to shine on the just and the unjust ----

The Rest of the Graces are conditional as you need the inbirthing of the right Faith to access these graces ----as these Graces come through Christ's faith ----this faith comes through hearing the Gospel and not all people get inbirthed with this faith ---You have to accept God the Father's pull on your heart so He can change your hardened Heart to a heart that receives the Gospel ------

John 6:44, which states: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,

All conditional -----
Serving Grace ---
Sanctifying Grace --
Justifying Grace ---
Saving Grace ---

The Kingdom of God is Conditional -----Period ----no unsaved person can ever experience the Kingdom of God that is here on earth now which requires you to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour ---- and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -----or the Kingdom of God in Heaven ----there is No Second chance to get into the Kingdom of God when you die ---Salvation is for the here and now -----Folks

 

[Magenta]

When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.

Philippians 1:29a + Romans 8:17b For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Indeed, we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

I'm 100% sure I don't understand your question. You want to know, for instance, if a "child of God" is "always and forever" in "the kingdom of God" but you don't want to associate being in the kingdom of God with salvation. Do you see some children of God as being in the kingdom of God and other children of God as being outside the kingdom of God?

 

[know1]

I'm 100% sure I don't understand your question. You want to know, for instance, if a "child of God" is "always and forever" in "the kingdom of God" but you don't want to associate being in the kingdom of God with salvation. Do you see some children of God as being in the kingdom of God and other children of God as being outside the kingdom of God?

Basically I see very few children of God in the kingdom of God, and the reason for that is because I see the kingdom of God as NOT being the same as, being in Christ or being born again.
To me, being in the kingdom of God is like being or walking in faith, or as I like to call it, the world or realm of faith.
Again, to me, they are one in the same.
So on that note, for you to be or to walk out of the realm of faith, which is to walk in the carnal or natural, is to be out of the kingdom of God, while still being in Christ.
I also believe this world of Faith or kingdom of God to be the same as the secret place of the most high God, spoken of in Psalms 91.
And having said that, for someone to be out of the kingdom of God or the world of faith is to be out of his grace. And where there is no Grace, or to have fallen from Grace, there is no move or hand of God.
For instance, let's say a child of God has a sickness or disease, and because they have no faith for God to heal them, but instead believe medication will take care of the issue, and they act on that belief, which is in the natural or carnal, then God's grace or his hand will not move in that situation or on them. Because where there is no faith there is no Grace, and where there is no Grace, there is no move of God, because you are no longer in the kingdom of God but in the Kingdom of the God of this natural world.
As I've said in the past, most Christians not only don't know what faith is, but also how it works or operates.
That is why I say, in part, why the being in kingdom of God is not the same as the salvation of God.

 

[know1]

The condition is through faith. To apostate is to abandon faith.

Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

It sounds to me like you are associating the kingdom of God to one's salvation.
I say they are not the same.
I believe the kingdom of God is like going through Jesus, who is the door or gate to the sheepfold, where they will go in and out and find pasture.
I believe we go in and out of the kingdom of God because we go in and out of Faith concerning our daily walk in life.
We walked in faith in somethings, but in most things, we walk in the natural.
And as you probably already know, it is impossible to please God outside of faith.
So even as being in the kingdom of God is temporal and conditional, based on one's faith in God, so is the grace of God, and the love of God both conditional and temporal. Even the blood of Christ is conditional. Being washed or covered in the blood of Jesus is not an automatic and forever thing, but is conditional.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Basically I see very few children of God in the kingdom of God, and the reason for that is because I see the kingdom of God as NOT being the same as, being in Christ or being born again.
To me, being in the kingdom of God is like being or walking in faith, or as I like to call it, the world or realm of faith.
Again, to me, they are one in the same.
So on that note, for you to be or to walk out of the realm of faith, which is to walk in the carnal or natural, is to be out of the kingdom of God, while still being in Christ.
I also believe this world of Faith or kingdom of God to be the same as the secret place of the most high God, spoken of in Psalms 91.
And having said that, for someone to be out of the kingdom of God or the world of faith is to be out of his grace. And where there is no Grace, or to have fallen from Grace, there is no move or hand of God.
For instance, let's say a child of God has a sickness or disease, and because they have no faith for God to heal them, but instead believe medication will take care of the issue, and they act on that belief, which is in the natural or carnal, then God's grace or his hand will not move in that situation or on them. Because where there is no faith there is no Grace, and where there is no Grace, there is no move of God, because you are no longer in the kingdom of God but in the Kingdom of the God of this natural world.
As I've said in the past, most Christians not only don't know what faith is, but also how it works or operates.
That is why I say, in part, why the being in kingdom of God is not the same as the salvation of God.

Ok, I understand now. I can't address the question in your OP because I can't relate to its premise. But it appears that you have answered your own question.

 

[know1]

God allows us to endure trials of many kinds. We are exhorted not to get discouraged or to complain. Trials are a part of Christian growth. (1 Peter 4:12)

God's grace is huge, greater than any trial, greater than any problem that we might face and greater than any danger. It's not always what we imagine, expect or even pray for. Many years ago, I need a tooth pulled. I prayed that it would be easy and painless. It was a two hour ordeal that left me shattered. Yet I could even joke with the dentist. He had to send the rest of his patients home. I said I'd go home and we could finish tomorrow. Sure, with the job nowhere near done. What good came out of that? I'd worried about my teeth for decades. The dentist told me that my jaw was like iron and my teeth the toughest he'd had to treat. Grace does not prevent troubles, but it enables us to endure and overcome.

Spiritually, we fall from grace when we trust anything but the finished work of Jesus for our salvation. That can happen through false teaching, pride, rebellion, complacency or ignorance. It does not mean that we lose our eternal life. It does mean that God will leave us to our own resources, which will inevitably lead to failure and defeat. Grace welcomes us back after we learn our lesson.

The church in Corinth had turned to false teachers, as Paul stated in his second letter. They were at risk of receiving God's grace in vain. (2 Corinthians 6:1). To understand Paul's statement, we have to read the preceding chapters.

The some of the Galatians had fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). Why? They fell for the false teaching that we have to obey the Law to be saved. Were they still born again? Yes. But some at least were deceived. How could they be restored to grace? By repenting and confessing their sin. And it surely is sin to deny that the death and resurrection of Christ is not enough to save us.

Some years God spoke to me. asking "How were you save?" I thought about and replied, "By grace". He asked me, "What saves you today?" I considered that also. "Grace" God spoke again, "What will save you tomorrow?" I got the point by then. Grace.

The old song says that grace is greater than all our sin. That is true but only in part. Grace is greater than the world, the flesh, self and Satan. Grace is Jesus doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves. What can we do for ourselves? Nothing of any spiritual worth (John 15:5). Oh, we can do many things, do many good works and form great ministries. I assure you that anything done apart from the leading and empowerment of Christ is nothing in God's sight.

If you don't get what you pray for, then you're not believing and praying right.
And you fall from God's grace when you fail to walk in faith, and I don't mean for your salvation but for your everyday walk, such as the situation with your tooth.
You hit the nail on the head when you said Grace is Jesus doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
We are not able to save ourselves, and therefore need a grace or hand of God to do that work for us. We also are not able to heal ourselves, or deliver ourselves from a messenger of Satan, without the grace or hand of God.
So when God said, my grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness, he wasn't just referring to one's salvation, as was the case with Paul, with the thorn in the flesh, but also with physical weaknesses, such as being in need of healing or deliverance.
The love of God also is conditional even as the love of the father toward the son was conditional.
The grace of God is conditional on one being in the kingdom of God and you can't be in the kingdom of God outside of faith or being in the world of faith.
When we walk according to the dictates of the natural world, or according to the flesh, and not according to the word of God, or the promises of God, then we are out of the Kingdom of God and out of his grace. And at the same time, we are still born again and have not lost our salvation just because we failed to walk in the spirit, but instead have walked in the natural or carnal.
Being in the kingdom of God is the same as being in the world or realm of faith, or maybe you might call it as being in a state of faith.
Any way you want to look at it, out of faith, is out of the kingdom of God, is out of his grace. And that Faith applies to our everyday life.

 

[know1]

I believe that a portion of God's grace is given to every human that finds them selves waking to greet a new day.
As long as the gift of forgiveness is offered by God so shall his grace be.
The Lord not only created mankind he sustains it. Offering life eternal for those who chose to believe.

What about the smaller things in life, like healing or Deliverance?
And God's forgiveness is conditional upon us repenting and forgiving others as well.
If we refuse to forgive an offense, you can ask for forgiveness all you want, and none will be given, until you forgive that person or people.

 

[know1]

look how thier actions impact it

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Again

“For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:5-7‬ ‭

notice how these are warnings written to the same people he has said this to in the same epistle earlier

for instance chapter 2
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That shouldn’t be taken in a vacuum but with the rest of nt he epistle which earns about our behavior and the resulting inheritance we can’t serve sin and also inherit the kingdom of God

The children of God your asking about have a doctrine like this

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬

they are children either way but thier actions determine the result according to the son of God who came to teach the doctrine that makes children of God

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus doctrine is the truth about agod and his children it tells us all we wish to know about the relationship

Though I agree with your statements concerning the kingdom of God, I believe it to be more than just about salvation.
If the kingdom of God is in heaven then how can it be within us or among Us?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Philippians 1:29a + Romans 8:17b For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Indeed, we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

When God told Paul my Grace is enough He meant that the help that he would receive from the Holy Spirit was enough even before he was delivered out of the trial

 

[know1]

No ----

AI
"hen" in Hebrew can indeed be associated with grace, favor, and even mercy, it's more accurately understood as "grace" or "favor" and encompasses healing, vindication, and strength


Grace is not just something God extends out to us -----Grace is actually a Person ----God is full of Grace ---Grace is part of God's character -----Jesus came Full of Grace and Truth ----Jesus is Grace ----

That is why God said to Paul my grace is sufficient ---

Corinthians 12:9, where Paul writes, "But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.

the Greek word for----- power here
dýnamis (able, having ability") – properly, "ability to perform" (L-N); for the believer, power to achieve by applying the Lord's iachieve abilities. "Power through God's ability"

So weakness here means a couple of things -----it can be a physical sickness or it can be a Spiritual harassment from Satan --which was the case for Paul -----

Strong"s Concordance ===
The term "astheneia" primarily denotes a state of weakness or lack of strength. In the New Testament, it is used both in a physical sense, referring to bodily ailments or sickness, and in a metaphorical sense, indicating moral or spiritual weakness. It often highlights human frailty and the need for divine strength.




God's Agape ---Love is free and unconditional to all people ---always

There are several types of graces -----that God gives ----only one is free

there is Common Grace --is temporal ---------which is given freely to all people ------no conditions --when you open your eyes in the morning --your alive by God's Grace ===for the just and the unjust --God allows rain and sun to shine on the just and the unjust ----

The Rest of the Graces are conditional as you need the inbirthing of the right Faith to access these graces ----as these Graces come through Christ's faith ----this faith comes through hearing the Gospel and not all people get inbirthed with this faith ---You have to accept God the Father's pull on your heart so He can change your hardened Heart to a heart that receives the Gospel ------

John 6:44, which states: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,

All conditional -----
Serving Grace ---
Sanctifying Grace --
Justifying Grace ---
Saving Grace ---

The Kingdom of God is Conditional -----Period ----no unsaved person can ever experience the Kingdom of God that is here on earth now which requires you to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour ---- and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -----or the Kingdom of God in Heaven ----there is No Second chance to get into the Kingdom of God when you die ---Salvation is for the here and now -----Folks

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If God's power is made perfect through our weakness then the only way to apply God's power is through faith.
Doesn't matter if it's salvation, healing, deliverance, or simply answered prayers, all are weaknesses we cannot take care of without God's hand moving in the situation. And God won't move in any situation outside of faith.
It is written, I can do all things through Christ which strengthens, enables, and empowers me.
That is the kingdom of God within the believer.
The love of God is conditional.
Jesus said in John 15:9 - 10, "... Continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my father's commandments and abide in his love."
The word, if, denotes a condition.
And if Jesus tells us to continue in his love, then that too implies that it is possible for a child of God to fail to continue in jesus's love, by not obeying his commandments.
I am convinced we can go in and out of the kingdom of God based on whether or not we are walking by faith in every situation or not.
And when we are not in said kingdom of God, we are not in one form of his grace.
It is written, for by grace are ye saved through faith..
That is for salvation.
Oh and God said to paul, my gracious sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness,- that was for deliverance.
And God wasn't telling Paul to just bear being tormented. God was telling Paul to use God's power, strength, or ability to remove Satan's messenger.
Nowhere in scripture does God tell us to ask him to deal with a demonic spirit, like Paul did. We are always told to cast it out or to command it to leave in the name of Jesus. And that is what God was telling Paul to do.

 

[know1]

Philippians 1:29a + Romans 8:17b For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him. Indeed, we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Answer me this question. Did Jesus ever, even once, suffer with any kind of sickness or disease or anything else, other than being persecuted by the religious and unbelieving people?
He does not tell us to heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, and so on, only to turn around and tell us that we have to suffer by the same thing he wants us to take care of through his power. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. That is not the kind of suffering Paul was referring to.
Now concerning what God Said to Paul concerning the messenger of Satan, I personally believe he misunderstood what God was telling him to do.
I believe God was telling Paul to take care of it himself, instead of asking God to take care of it for him.
Again, I believe God was telling Paul to enter into the kingdom of God through faith, thereby entering into his grace, power, strength, and ability, and while in said Kingdom of God, the hand of God would move in the situation that Paul himself was unable to take care of with his own strengths or abilities.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It sounds to me like you are associating the kingdom of God to one's salvation.
I say they are not the same.
I believe the kingdom of God is like going through Jesus, who is the door or gate to the sheepfold, where they will go in and out and find pasture.
I believe we go in and out of the kingdom of God because we go in and out of Faith concerning our daily walk in life.
We walked in faith in somethings, but in most things, we walk in the natural.
And as you probably already know, it is impossible to please God outside of faith.
So even as being in the kingdom of God is temporal and conditional, based on one's faith in God, so is the grace of God, and the love of God both conditional and temporal. Even the blood of Christ is conditional. Being washed or covered in the blood of Jesus is not an automatic and forever thing, but is conditional.

We walked in faith in somethings, but in most things, we walk in the natural.

Legalism isn't Biblical. To constantly have to maintain salvation is impossible. Faith in what Christ has done is salvationally the only response required. Everything afterwards is sanctification or a process that will involve moments of failure. I don't see OSAS as Biblical but I do see security for those who have faith in the finished work of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Though I agree with your statements concerning the kingdom of God, I believe it to be more than just about salvation.
If the kingdom of God is in heaven then how can it be within us or among Us?

“If the kingdom of God is in heaven then how can it be within us or among Us?”

“ the kingdom of God “ Is a doctrine we need to hear and believe is how it’s within us , the gospel began to be preached is how it was among them and remains among us promising salvation still today to believers in every Bible and in the churches sometimes we attend or in the hearts of friends we sometimes meet Along the way. The message of Jesus is still among mankind today and began to be at this point

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it doesn’t end there of course but that’s where it began to be among us and could now be within believers who heard and believed. Now it would later by his apostles be sent here to these people

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he told his apostles

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ 1:7

The apostles including Peter and John and Paul and everyone ended up , along with like barnabus many other chosen disciples , carrying this out by pen I g and witnessing and living through the words we read in our bibles . Thier testimony of Jesus and the gospel of his kingdom belongs within us and is there when we hear and believe ….and the Holy Ghost we receive should sit upon the throne in our heart, and lead us through life.


Here’s the thing though , when you study that message it tells us that Jesus ascended to his throne in heaven after he died and rose on earth .

And it tells us that when he returns and destroys this world with fire , his kingdom will be brought from heaven to earth and fulfilled upon the earth as it is in heaven now and u til he returns for this day
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”
‭‭2 Peter 3:9-14

The message of the kingdom belongs within us and will eventually be fulfilled as a promised land and perfect earth what’s in heaven will come to earth some day with Jesus

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

arhats going to be when Gods kingdom is fulfilled , now is when it’s offered and promised and given and extended to mankind who hear and believe and keep it within. They will receive the promises one day of a renewed and eternal
Earth where he walks among us


ultimately creation is the kingdom of God and he will fulfill his plan and deell
Among us as a family and death will no
Longer exist or be remembered

his kingdom is in the gospel message of his kingdom and is received by faith

 

[wattie]

Though this thread is not about salvation, or whether a person is osas or not, I'm sure it will morph into that.
Some may ask, how can you not be in the grace, love, or kingdom of God without talking about salvation?
Well, that's part of what I'm asking.
Is the child of God always and forever in the grace, love, and kingdom of God, or are the above mentioned conditional and temporal?
Again, this may look like I am asking if our salvation is conditional based on our works, but I am not. I'm separating salvation from the above mentioned.
If I were to ask, what is the grace of God? Some of you might say, it is the unmerited favor of God.
But is that all it is?
When God told Paul, "my grace is sufficient for thee, was He just saying, it is my will that you suffer and my grace will help you bear it?
After all, you may ask, isn't it the will of God for us to suffer for the name of Christ?
I personally do not agree with this doctrine.
Was God referring to Paul's salvation or situation, when He mentioned His grace being sufficient?
God's grace had nothing to do with Paul's salvation but everything to do with his thorn in the flesh.
So can there be more to God's grace than just His unmerited favor?
Are we in the grace of God if we complain about a situation we don't like, or take medication to alleviate any kind of sufferings?
Many of you, I am sure, would say, of course we are, but are we really?
Those of you who agree with this belief or doctrine, again, are tying God's grace to salvation, and I say, it is not.
Can the grace of God be more about where we are, rather than who we are in Christ?
I asked also, is the grace of God conditional?
I asked the same about the love of God. Is it conditional to be in the love of God?
And what about the kingdom of God? Is it conditional to get in and stay in or not?

Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when a person is born again, they are kept by Him with a place in heaven reserved for them.

So, with this, usually the response is 'you are teaching a license to sin'

What this response ignores, is this indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that guides and convicts the believer on their journey.

So the consequences for sin for the believer is not hell.. but discipline, rebuke and quickening.

This may be getting kicked from your church, loss of relationship with those close to you and God may even end some one's life to stop their sin affecting others.

But He will not send a believer to hell.

The Book of John shows the security and assurance of the believer. Also parts of Romans and other books.

The key thing is who owns the believers salvation? Because God owns it..not the believer themselves. He keeps it.. we can't keep it by our behaviour.