No, God loves all of His enemies (Matt. 5:44 & 48),
but hates their sins and enforces just punishment of unrepentant sinners in hell
before destroying their souls.
In what way do you believe God specifically shows his love for unrepentant sinners who are in hell?
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No, God loves all of His enemies (Matt. 5:44 & 48),
but hates their sins and enforces just punishment of unrepentant sinners in hell
before destroying their souls.
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate. 7 He, that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: To him, that overcometh, I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God. 8 And to the angel of the church of Smyrna write: These things saith the First and the Last, who was dead, and is alive: 9 I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil will cast some of you into prison that you may be tried: and you shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the crown of life.
I will never repent for your sins.Oh the irony. You're being unrepentant right now....
Revelation 9:6
And in those days men shall seek death, and shall not find it: and they shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them.
And in those days men shall seek death, and shall not find it: and they shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them.
God loves people, which means God loves sinners because all people are sinners. Scripture teaches that "while we were sinners, Christ died for us." All this is known and well established throughout scripture. So then the focus of your inquiry is location, location, location.
You'd have to first define what the concept of "hell" means to you. Is it a place, a state of being, a condition of torment? What is it?
The pic needs context, which is that it portrays the agony of the victims of sinful perps,
and also the just consequence/agony of the perps reaping what they have sown.
Our sins are removed from us/forgotten because we are in Christ, Who is righteous. We become as He is .
On the other hand,
Daniel 12 verse 2 Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be filled with gratitude, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe.
Hebrews 12:29 For God is a consuming fire.
Coincidentally, I was just looked up this verse and posted in another thread and the next thing I read was your this commentary. This is written within the context of a call to endurance and a call to holiness wherein also is God's promise to not only shake the earth but to shake heaven as well, where the words "once more" signify the removal of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that the unshakeable may remain (Hebrews 12: 26-7).
The implication is that nothing of this world will stand. A consuming fire leaves nothing.
Rev 21:5 And the One seated on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are faithful and true."
So, you believe in a powerless God that sits back and puts the full weight of salvation on our shoulders, and teach the only ones saved are those who obey well enough, giving them good reason to boast. Sorry you describe an all-powerful Creator, highlight His sovereignty, then completely contradict it all by making the ultimate power man's choice. I'm sorry man, this is not the God who saved me in POWER, and it was NOT my decision that did it in any way, shape, form, or fasion. In fact, when "I" made that decision, when "I" responded to the alter call, when "I" repeated the prayer, when "I" was told to remember this day and write it down because "I" just chose to "let" Jesus into my heart, "I" wasn't saved.
I thought I was and would have been right here on your side arguing that I made the choice and no one can tell me I'm not saved, and that I better be good now. I wasn't.
Now on 9-29-13, a date I will never have to write down to remember, was the day I hit my knees. This is after 2 years of having lost all function in my right, and dominant, arm in a motorcycle wreak while thinking I was a Christian. I had uncontrollable suicidal thoughts running through my head at least every 5 minutes for 2 solid years, I wanted nothing but death. The thing was I had a wife and two sons I just couldn't leave with "my dad killed himself". I felt trapped, not noble. I also found the whole "Christian thing" completely useless. If there was a God, He wasn't helping me at all. While I didn't get angry at Him, I just lost any faith in Him, if I ever had any at that point in the first place. I don't think I did. So, when He brought me to my knees I didn't even believe in Him then. When I hit my knees in repentance, I didn't even know what was going on, I wasn't praying "God help me" or "Jesus I'm now ready". No, when I hit my knees, I was crying "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose, and I quit!!" Picked my weeping failure self up off the floor, dried off, and went to bed.
The next day it wasn't until lunch that it hit me and hit me hard. "I haven't thought about killing myself all day!!!". It was right then and there I KNEW whatever this was, it was God, and I KNEW Jesus was His Son. It was then that by His grace and His power that He resurrected my dead spirit and reconciled it to Himself. This is being born again, and it was by NOTHING I did and was 1000000% God.
I've now, by His power, been following Him for 12 years and done quite a bit in His name. You know who I give that credit to? All God. I'd have NEVER done any of these things before He transformed me, and it's only by His power that I've stayed a Christian, guess who gets all credit and glory for that as well? You guessed it, He does!!! He gets the credit for my obedience. See we both believe we should be obedient after being saved, the difference really is who is getting the credit for that obedience. I say, "All Glory To God". You seem to think a little of it at least belongs to us. I disagree. I know we disagree, but I don't think you even grasp how and why we disagree so much.
Look I understand that everyone is saved by God in a very personal and custom way. Some people have and are saved in the alter call type set-up. I am not at all trying to suggest that everyone has to have a salvation experience like I did, that's not my point in any way. My biggest point here is pointing to the fact that my "choice" had nothing at all to do with my salvation. Love it or hate it God saved me with none of my help, and it transformed me overnight in a way that no one that was around me during that time could deny. He brought me from death to life overnight in a way that "I" just couldn't have done by a decision. I think the way you look at God robs Him of His power and glory in a vein attempt to claim those things as your own. I don't think you do this with malice or even knowingly, but you can't deny that's what's going on when you look at it honestly.
Everlasting punishment is exactly that.
But is it being punished and tormented forever or is it death forever.
I believe hell itself is going to be destroyed along with all of the things of this fallen creation
And tha upon judgement day when Jesus returns to judge the earth even those who have already died and are in hell now will be raised up and judged . The lake of fire in my opinion is a way to describe this event where everything is burned up and consumned
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
( we can see this heaven and earth is the place reserved for punishment )
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7, 10-13 KJV
What I was getting at is there’s an end to this earth that we all know. A fiery one when Jesus returns
“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints,
and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 KJV
If God created heaven and earth from nothing then also he can destroy it and make a new one I would think but it’s just my opinion
Mar 9:45-46
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm.
In this instance Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem. No doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned.
Please don't egnore this,
Gahanna was a place with an unquenchable fire. The Gahanna fire did not go out in those days.
If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm.
In this instance Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem. No doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned.
Please don't egnore this,
Gahanna was a place with an unquenchable fire. The Gahanna fire did not go out in those days.
If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.
There are 2 resurrections seperates by 1000 years.
Rev 20:5-7
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
When Jesus comes to resurrect the saved
1 Thes 4:16. The unsaved will not survive the coming of Jesus.
The saved are with Jesus for 1000 years and then the second resurrection.
The unsaved are raised to life to face judgement and the Lord will destroy all sin and wickedness. The second death. God will recreate the Earth new.
The flames of the second death are at the end of the 1000 years and it is then that the wicked are raised.
Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
It is important to remember that hell (a place of burning eternal torment) is an invention of pagan religions and introduced by the papacy in the dark ages.
The word hell = hades
name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
later use of this word: the grave, death, hell
It was used to mean death and grave.
I wrote this some time ago.
Many people get mixed up with words like "forever" and "always" and with phrases like "forever and ever". Wisdom is needed to understand if those words and phrases mean "for all time" (where time comes to an end) or "from age to age" (where ages come to an end) or "for eternity" (which never comes to an end).
Death and Hell are spirits who rule over positions of authority named after them.
At the end of this age, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
"And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the second death. People whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown into the Lake of Fire.
"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Revelation goes on to describe the condition of the new age as one where..
"..there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”
So there is no death or mourning. Furthermore:
"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."
God is "all in all". All that is in the new age with the New Jerusalem will be God.
Long story short: all who opposed the Lord will destroyed absolutely. They do not suffer eternal conscious torment, neither angels or humans are eternal. Their torment, however, will be sufficient for their offenses. They will be destroyed. In the end of the age to come, God will be all in all.
Many people get mixed up with words like "forever" and "always" and with phrases like "forever and ever". Wisdom is needed to understand if those words and phrases mean "for all time" (where time comes to an end) or "from age to age" (where ages come to an end) or "for eternity" (which never comes to an end).
Death and Hell are spirits who rule over positions of authority named after them.
At the end of this age, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
"And there were open books, and one of them was the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Being thrown into the Lake of Fire is the second death. People whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life are also thrown into the Lake of Fire.
"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Revelation goes on to describe the condition of the new age as one where..
"..there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away.”
So there is no death or mourning. Furthermore:
"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."
God is "all in all". All that is in the new age with the New Jerusalem will be God.
Long story short: all who opposed the Lord will destroyed absolutely. They do not suffer eternal conscious torment, neither angels or humans are eternal. Their torment, however, will be sufficient for their offenses. They will be destroyed. In the end of the age to come, God will be all in all.
“There are 2 resurrections seperates by 1000 years.”
we would differ here because I don’t take revelation as literal measurements of times and seasons on earth.
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
2 Peter 3:8 KJV
i take it to mean an extended period of time, and things like this as a very short period of time also not literally one hour bit representing a very short period of time
“And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
Revelation 17:12
i dont think this is saying to look for ten kings who literwlly rule with the beast for an hour. But is saying they will all rule together for a very brief time period with this “ beast “ or this “eighth king who was of the seven. “
If you look closely at the Bible there are two resurrections promised. One in the Old Testament promised to Israel’s faithful saints when the messiah would come to isreal
“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, and shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live,
and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.”
Ezekiel 37:12-14
And then there’s another resurrection promised to all people of all nations who exist under the new covenant when the messiah returns
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
So you have this resurrection in the Old Testament given to israel
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
….But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13, 16 KJV
I believe the first resurrection is the concluding promise of the first testament promise to israel.
and “the thousand year riegn “ is those resurrected saints of the ot in heaven with Jesus after he ascended to heavens throne
That a thousand years simply is representing a very extended and unknown time period between Jesus being taken up into heaven and th e kingdom bieng filled with people in heaven after Jesus went up
“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.”
John 14:2 KJV
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
……And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
( people that have already died and been redeemed are celebrating in heaven but earth is being warned )
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
Revelation 12:5, 10-12 KJV
Rejoice in heaven when’re Gods kingdom and his Christ and these many people now redeemed are bit wor u to those upon earth ….
I don’t believe there’s a literal thousand year reign on earth when Jesus returns he is going to deliver his people from the grave and those still alive and destroy everything left
The thousand years in my opinion is the king period of time those we see there riegn in heaven and Jesus return from heaven to gsther those of the new testement and judge all the world
then he’s promised to restore a new earth and fill it with those people who were saved … or “ found written in the lambs book of life at judgement. “
I don’t read revelation as literal I believe that it is an apacolypse and is several visions based on ot prophecies and not one linear vision or timeline. To be taken literal such as the example of “ten kings having power for one hour “
This to me says a very brief time period as the thousand years says a very long and extended time period like Peter said God is still being orient with people that’s why he hasn’t returned yet. He wants everyone to repent and be saved
“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:3-4, 8-9 KJV
Peter then describes the lords return and destruction of heaven and earth followed by a promised new earth …. There’s no doctrine anywhere else for any thousand year riegn on earth but it all says when Jesus returns he’s going to destroy the earth delivering his people both living and dead
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 KJV
“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body; ( because it’s made for earth )
it is raised a spiritual body. ( it’s made for the spiritual realms of the heavenly )
There is a natural body, ( dies )
and there is a spiritual body.”( raises up )
1 Corinthians 15:35, 42, 44 KJV
“And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ( it’s not of this natural world) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:49-50 KJV
I believe Jesus and his saints have been reigning in heaven a long time since the desolation of earths Jerusalem or so
But again it’s just my opinion doesn’t mean I’m right and you are wrong or anything just discussing