If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?

[TheLearner]

Do you realize that historians are not necessarily trustworthy?

I will tell Moses that when we get there brother, friend.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

Yes Soul Sleep is indeed a false doctrine. There are no souls sleeping six feet under the soil. Upon death, the body goes into the grave (and may give the appearance of repose or sleep). But the soul and spirit are either in Heaven (for those who are children of God) or Hades (for those who are not). At the same time sleep is used as a metaphor for the death of the saints.

When Christ died His body was placed in a tomb but His soul and spirit went to Hades for three days and three nights. He preached unto the spirits in prison at that time. All the OT saints were in Hades in a virtual prison when He got there. However, when Christ rose from the dead, He took all these saints with Him to Heaven (including that thief on the cross). He took "captivity captive".

Paradise is in the New Jerusalem in Heaven (not in Hades), but Christ went there only after three days and three nights, after being "in the heart of the earth" or "the lower parts of the earth" (Hades). Therefore what He said to that malefactor was that surely he would be with Him in Paradise at the appropriate time (after three days). That thief also went to Hades with Christ, and he was not an exception to be in Paradise on that same day of crucifixion.

The Greek text has no punctuation, so it was imperative that the translators place the punctuation at the right spot, or omit it altogether. But because that did not happen, there is an incorrect understanding of what was said. All English translations follow the KJV in this regard.

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Whoalso hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we arealways Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = VERY Comforting, Correct?:

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Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.

The context says it is at the timing of the RESURRECTION that those who have died in Christ Jesus will "THEN" be "WITH" Him:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.​

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.​

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.​

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

​

2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.​

​

Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.​

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.​

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,​

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.​

Mat 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.​

Like them, you do not know the scriptures, nor the power of God, either.

 

[Nehemiah6]

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

That should have been TARTARUS, not "hell". There is no one in the Lake of Fire right now. But Tartarus is the SPECIFIC prison of the angels which sinned before the Flood. Εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας [tartarosas = Tartarus] παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τετηρημένους·

Those angels are chained in the prison called Tartarus: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is from the man who is "under the sun". We know from the rest of Scripture that upon death souls and spirits go to Sheol/Hades, not back to God.

So there are three separate regions, and because they were all called "hell" we have much confusion.

SHEOL/HADES = THE ABODE OF DEPARTED SOULS AND SPIRITS
TARTARUS = THE SUBTERRENEAN PRISON OF ANGELS
GEHENNA = EVERLASTING HELL = THE LAKE OF FIRE

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I believe Paradise is synonymous with Abraham's Bosom, and still exists to this day.

The Saved 'rest' there until the Marriage Supper.

Witnesses (martyrs) dwell in the very throne room of heaven.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

Witnesses (martyrs) dwell in the very throne room of heaven.

No, they don't. Rev. 6 and it's symbolic imagery shows that the martyrs are dead resting in the grave, on earth, where the altar of slaughter (like lambs to the slaughter) or altar of sacrifice is (on earth, not heaven). The blood of the martyrs is poured out at the based of the altar of sacrifice, on earth, not Heaven. They do not enter into Heaven until after the next group of martyrs dies (soon to be, mark of the beast), and then all are resurrected at Christ Jesus' second advent.

Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.​

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Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.​

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Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:​

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.​

​

P.S. I like your signature. Very neat.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

That should have been TARTARUS

It (tartarus) means place of outer darkness. The fallen angels were cast out of the 3rd heaven, and into what we know as the darkness between worlds (ie 'space'), for a time, until they came to (fell to) earth once it was completed.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It (tartarus) means place of outer darkness.

That is incorrect. "In Greek mythology, Tartarus was a "place of punishment under the earth, to which, for example, the Titans were sent" (Souter)."

It would appear from all of Scripture that Sheol/Hades and Tartarus are both "in the lower parts pf the earth" or "in the heart of the earth". But they are totally separate because of their occupants. Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three nights. But no one has gone as yet to Gehenna, which is in outer darkness, and called "Hell" or "the Lake of Fire".

 

[TheLearner]

start at #62

 

[ItsAdventageous]

That is incorrect. "In Greek mythology, Tartarus was a "place of punishment under the earth, to which, for example, the Titans were sent" (Souter)."

From the view of earth, look "under" it:

​

Job_26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.​

My statement stands true, while you only look at it from a pagan defintion, not a scriptural one.

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

That should have been TARTARUS, not "hell". There is no one in the Lake of Fire right now. But Tartarus is the SPECIFIC prison of the angels which sinned before the Flood. Εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο ἀλλὰ σειραῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας [tartarosas = Tartarus] παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τετηρημένους·

Those angels are chained in the prison called Tartarus: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)
This is from the man who is "under the sun". We know from the rest of Scripture that upon death souls and spirits go to Sheol/Hades, not back to God.

So there are three separate regions, and because they were all called "hell" we have much confusion.

SHEOL/HADES = THE ABODE OF DEPARTED SOULS AND SPIRITS
TARTARUS = THE SUBTERRENEAN PRISON OF ANGELS
GEHENNA = EVERLASTING HELL = THE LAKE OF FIRE

Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[ketura]

Even though I have been on this journey a bit some things are not fully settled in my mind through the harmony of the word.

One is after death........

 

[ketura]

Even though I have been on this journey a bit some things are not fully settled in my mind through the harmony of the word.

One is after death........View attachment 248381

If Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.....why do we dispute "soul sleep"?

 

[ketura]

Acts 20.

 

[ketura]

One thought to ponder, if someone's heart stops beating are they not dead?

Does CPR count as a miracle; it brings a life back ?

I saw a crime doc once....a man killed another man ; the man who was killed had a heart implant, a defibrillator. Once the man had choked the life out of the other, after a time the defib kicked his heart back into action......this happened 8 times. ( per read out from defibrillator) so he was charged with 1 murder and 7 attempted murders of the same man.

For some reason, be it the soul or what seems to remain with the body, no?

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

If Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.....why do we dispute "soul sleep"?

A human soul is either dead or alive.
Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

If Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.....why do we dispute "soul sleep"?

A human soul is either dead or alive.
Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Using only one verse makes a Total doctrine not to "be disputed"??? (#54)

 

[TheLearner]

The context says it is at the timing of the RESURRECTION that those who have died in Christ Jesus will "THEN" be "WITH" Him:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.​

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.​

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.​

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

​

2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.​

​

Mat 22:28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.​

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.​

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,​

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.​

Mat 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.​

Like them, you do not know the scriptures, nor the power of God, either.

Matthew 9:24 23When Jesus came into the [w]official’s house and saw the flute players and the crowd in noisy disorder, 24He said, “Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him. 25But when the crowd had been sent out, He entered and took her by the hand, and the girl [x]got up. 26And this news spread throughout that land.

 

[TheLearner]

start at #67

 

[oyster67]

If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?


1 Thessalonians 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Can't very well argue with that, but "Sleep" may simply mean that they haven't been joined to their glorified bodies yet.