How to be Born Again
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Since we've been communicating on this site you have never offered a verse that SAYS what you believe . Thats terrifying.
Sure. You have been given Scripture and you don't believe it.
See how that works? Try a better approach.
Like quoting verses that actually say what you claim. So far, you haven't. And when you do quote verses, you are given explanations of the verses that prove that they don't say what you think they mean.
otoh, you don't even bother trying to explain any of the verses that we have provided. All you do is regurgitate your talking points.
Then quote at least 1 verse for teach letter. Can you?
The truth is that man is totally unable to save himself.
Calvinism goes way too far by claiming that man can't believe unless he is regenerated. So prove that with verses.
But I've already refuted the notion that regeneration precedes faith.
Eph 2:5 equates regeneration (made alive) with salvation (have been saved).
Eph 2:8 says plainly that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.
That PROVES that faith must be present in order to be saved.
And that is EXACTLY how Paul answered the jailer.
Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
If calvinism was biblical, Paul's answer WOULD HAVE BEEN THIS:
There's absolutely nothing you can do to be saved. God already decided before the foundation of the world who would be saved unconditionally.
Hm. But he didn't give the jailer any of the calvinist talking points.
How sad. I give verses that actually SAY what I believe, and that makes me "deceived' huh?
Well, you don't even have verses that say what you believe.
Come on ,one verse that SAYS what you believe, surely this can be done ?
Let's see 1 ) regeneration precedes faith
2) Irresistible grace
3) Cannot believe the Gospel.
4) Faith is an exclusive gift ,withheld from some.
5) Repentance is withheld from some
6 ) born with the guilt of Adam.
7) Chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world .
8) predestined to be saved before we were born
9 ) Elected to salvation
10) God causes belief in those he saves .
And on and on and on ....
Just one verse that SAYS any of the above ?
What is the calvinist response to this verse:
1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
From all the claims that calvinists say, this verse seems to be saying that ONLY the unrighteous had their sins covered by Christ.
So, what does that mean for the non-unrighteous?
I know calvinists don't believe that Christ die for the so-called "non-elect".
So you have a dilemma.
Amen. To think that a whole theology is based on talking points that are NOT found in the Bible is just amazing.
And one of them called me "deceived". So what's the word for someone who claims to believe the Bible and cannot find any verse that says what they believe?
Rom 1:19-21 is the grace of God at work. No one has any excuse for not recognizing the existence of God and being thankful to Him.I am not Arminian, either
You seem to dislike the concept of God's grace working in unsaved people.
And Titus 2:11 says the grace of God has appeared to everyone.
Without God's grace, no one would ever be saved.
OK, fair enough. So, who are "His people"? Calvinists in unison will say (shout) THE ELECT!
OK, please explain 1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
We know that Christ is "the righteous". So who are the "unrighteous" then?
If the "unrighteous" here refers to "the elect", then Christ did only die for them, being unrighteous, you know.
'
So what does that mean for the rest of humanity. They aren't considered unrighteous and Christ didn't need to die for their sins.
So, by claiming that Christ only died for the "elect", and knowing 1 Peter 3:18, calvinism actually teaches universalism.
Christ didn't need to die for the non-elect since they aren't described as unrighteous.
Calvinism has a terrible time trying to understand Scripture.
According to Romans 1:19-21, God has revealed Himself to EVERYONE. I don't think we can claim that God reveals Himself differently to different people. Romans 1:19-21 does not allow such thinking.
throughfaith said:
Matt 1 is before the cross . Which is a handy verse for a calvinist . But the focus is Israel ( He came to his own ) Now read
1 John 2:2
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
The words "not or ours ONLY" refers to believers.
The words "the whole world" includes everyone else. Unbelievers.
Matt 1 is before the cross . Which is a handy verse for a calvinist . But the focus is Israel ( He came to his own ) Now read
1 John 2:2
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
v.2 is perhaps the clearest verse in the Bible about the fact that Christ died for all of humanity
The words "not or ours ONLY" refers to believers.
The words "the whole world" includes everyone else. Unbelievers.
Just a point here, but telling another what they don't believe or understand is rather arrogant.
Esp from someone who CAN'T provide ANY verse that says what they keep claiming.
You're batting zero.
I believe what this says .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1.13
Do you believe this verse ? is there anything wrong with what it SAYS ?
Doesn't this verse refute what you believe ? If it doesn't ,which is the verse that SAYS why this verse, as it reads ,doesn't mean what it says?
notice WE trusted AFTER WE heard the word of truth , the Gospel . And AFTER WE believed we were sealed by the Holy Spirit . ( saved / regenerated)
look at the order . Wouldn't this be an ideal time to SAY regeneration comes before the rest ?
What would be the reason we can't believe the verse as it says ?
Eph 1.13 ( how to be born again ) one of many great verses on this .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
That is the oddest most erroneous interpretation of Romans 1
I have ever seen, wrong because it does not say nobody experiences
God any differently than anybody else. I am not sure why you would
even want to try to make that stinker float, since the Bible is full of
stories written by and about people who had unique experiences of God.