How to be Born Again

[tribesman]

Gift of faith and saving faith are not the same thing. Read it in context.

If it was talking about saving faith it wouldn't say to another is given...It would say to all is given faith...seeing that it is talking about saved people here. How on earth can you come to the conclusion that it would say to another and not all would have that faith if it were talking about saving faith.

Seriously just read it.

1Corinthians 12
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

By the way, seeing these scriptures in context, it is noteworthy that Paul writes "the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal":

1Cor.12

[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

So, by your logic and selective way of reading scripture, this word "every man" must by all means literally mean "all" of mankind, regenerate as well as unregenerate; doesn't it? Else God is "UNFAIR!". You see?

Now, again, back to the beginning and the CONTEXT of this text.

1Cor.12

[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

By this it is clear that Paul makes no big distinction between the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and the work of the same Spirit administering certain gifts to believers. They are both one.

 

[1ofthem]

I should wait until the morning to respond to this...but are you playing games with me or what?

I didn't bring up any of the things that you said are irrelevant. You did...in the post that I called a smorgasbord.

You ask why did I bring up the gifts of the Spirit...Well, I didn't here's where it come from you were trying to use it as some kind of proof for Calvinism.

1Cor.12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

You also acted like I just brought this up as well. When again it was another one of your mixed around verses on the other post to some how prove Calvinism.

I know very well about this. And I have never contended that all who calls Jesus is Lord are saved. We all know that there are tares among the wheat. That was never the discussion here.

Personally though, I very seldom make blank statements about people's eternal destination at these boards. I am not here to delve into such matters. God knows perfectly well who are His and if there be children of God who have gone astray or been misled by errors or heresies, then they may be corrected and restored in due time. What I discuss here is doctrine.

These following scriptures are very clear:

1Cor.12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Then you ended it with this summation of all the out of place verses that you strung together:

All these above scriptures are crystal clear that only regenerate man can have this. Unregenerate man simply can not have this. It will be argued that faith is a gift of the Spirit, yet it is a gift that ALL believers have. And this gift is manifested instantly at regeneration. Unregenerate men can not have this.

So again, is this some kind of game to you. You can't prove your points so then you deny them...Are you a mental gymnast.

 

[1ofthem]

By the way, seeing these scriptures in context, it is noteworthy that Paul writes "the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal":



So, by your logic and selective way of reading scripture, this word "every man" must by all means literally mean "all" of mankind, regenerate as well as unregenerate; doesn't it? Else God is "UNFAIR!". You see?

Now, again, back to the beginning and the CONTEXT of this text.

By this it is clear that Paul makes no big distinction between the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and the work of the same Spirit administering certain gifts to believers. They are both one.

Oh so now you remember...how convenient ...since I just spent all that time looking them up and reposting them.

This is the CALVINIST game twist, twist, twist...try to get someone not to actually pay attention to what you are saying...when you get called on it and can't defend then deny saying it or even bringing it up.

It's all smoke and mirrors and a total waste of time.

And stop putting words in my mouth, as well...how many times do I have to repeat myself?

Now if you want to discuss this, then stop with the games. I'm not wasting time on foolish games. I don't have time to back track you on everything you say.

 

[1ofthem]

[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

By this it is clear that Paul makes no big distinction between the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and the work of the same Spirit administering certain gifts to believers. They are both one.

Did he, really...Do you not rember saying this:

I know very well about this. And I have never contended that all who calls Jesus is Lord are saved. We all know that there are tares among the wheat. That was never the discussion here.

Personally though, I very seldom make blank statements about people's eternal destination at these boards. I am not here to delve into such matters. God knows perfectly well who are His and if there be children of God who have gone astray or been misled by errors or heresies, then they may be corrected and restored in due time. What I discuss here is doctrine.

 

[tribesman]

[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Did he, really...Do you not rember saying this:

I have lost you totally here. What is your point, really?

 

[1ofthem]

I have lost you totally here. What is your point, really?

Yeah, same here...you lost me along time ago in the smoke and mirrors. It's been exhausting running around the rabbit trails with you and having to spit out all the words you've put in my mouth.

So who knows...I'm done for the night.

 

[tribesman]

I should wait until the morning to respond to this...but are you playing games with me or what?

I didn't bring up any of the things that you said are irrelevant. You did...in the post that I called a smorgasbord.

You ask why did I bring up the gifts of the Spirit...Well, I didn't here's where it come from you were trying to use it as some kind of proof for Calvinism.


You also acted like I just brought this up as well. When again it was another one of your mixed around verses on the other post to some how prove Calvinism.




Then you ended it with this summation of all the out of place verses that you strung together:


So again, is this some kind of game to you. You can't prove your points so then you deny them...Are you a mental gymnast.

Up to you if you post now or wait until morning. And there is no game here, from my part, this is deadly serious doctrine.

I have asked you quite many times to provide scriptures which clearly speaks about unregenerate man having "a free will choice" in becoming regenerated. There have been none such posted, instead you are STUCK at this gifts of the Spirit thingy. And with it is drawing away from the main concern of the error of free-willism.

I have given many scriptures that out rules such ideas as conditionalism and free-willism. Now, at the very least that ought to be something to study up on and let these scriptures speak for themselves. Hopefully it will work as CORRECTION of unbiblical human ideas. That's the bottom line of this communication, as I see it.

 

[tribesman]

Oh so now you remember...how convenient ...since I just spent all that time looking them up and reposting them.

This is the CALVINIST game twist, twist, twist...try to get someone not to actually pay attention to what you are saying...when you get called on it and can't defend then deny saying it or even bringing it up.

It's all smoke and mirrors and a total waste of time.

And stop putting words in my mouth, as well...how many times do I have to repeat myself?

Now if you want to discuss this, then stop with the games. I'm not wasting time on foolish games. I don't have time to back track you on everything you say.

There is NO twisting here and I have not put any words to your mouth. I hope you not fall into the trap of false accusation. It will not be good for you. This is a warning.

I guess your only way out now is to be contentious, seeing you have totally failed to provide any scriptures that says that unregenerate man have any "free-will choice" in spiritual matters.

 

[1ofthem]

Up to you if you post now or wait until morning. And there is no game here, from my part, this is deadly serious doctrine.

I have asked you quite many times to provide scriptures which clearly speaks about unregenerate man having "a free will choice" in becoming regenerated. There have been none such posted, instead you are STUCK at this gifts of the Spirit thingy. And with it is drawing away from the main concern of the error of free-willism.

I have given many scriptures that out rules such ideas as conditionalism and free-willism. Now, at the very least that ought to be something to study up on and let these scriptures speak for themselves. Hopefully it will work as CORRECTION of unbiblical human ideas. That's the bottom line of this communication, as I see it.

Ok thanks maybe we will take this up in the morning... And I'll post scripture... BTW...you brought up the Gifts of the Spirit thingy and kept on it not me...lol

Anyways... Calvinism is a very dangerous doctrine. It casts doubt and a stumbling block in others way.

 

[tribesman]

I should wait until the morning to respond to this...but are you playing games with me or what?

I didn't bring up any of the things that you said are irrelevant. You did...in the post that I called a smorgasbord.

You ask why did I bring up the gifts of the Spirit...Well, I didn't here's where it come from you were trying to use it as some kind of proof for Calvinism.


You also acted like I just brought this up as well. When again it was another one of your mixed around verses on the other post to some how prove Calvinism.

Then you ended it with this summation of all the out of place verses that you strung together:


So again, is this some kind of game to you. You can't prove your points so then you deny them...Are you a mental gymnast.

You say they are out of place yet NEVER shows how you mean that they are INTO place. You never expound on what is incorrect and how you would like to correct it.

You do not post any scripture, apart from the same scripture of 1Cor.12. See, you contribute nothing. It's like fence sitting people who comment on the football players at the court, saying their little opinon "oh, that's bad". They're not even in the ball game! And you talk about games?

You seem to have a personal offence for the scriptures that I quoted that proves free-willism dead wrong.

 

[tribesman]

Ok thanks maybe we will take this up in the morning... And I'll post scripture... BTW...you brought up the Gifts of the Spirit thingy and kept on it not me...lol

Anyways... Calvinism is a very dangerous doctrine. It casts doubt and a stumbling block in others way.

People who say "oh, that's wrong, that's out of place" and then will not themselves show and describe what is correct and into place contributes nothing to the threads. Hope for a better discussion next time.

 

[tribesman]

Everyone chooses to believe. Unless you are a robot or puppet. But that's a different thing.
Oh, right. Let's bring in the IQ thing. Are you not aware that there are many very smart scientists who believe in a theory called evolution, which has never been proven, and has been refuted by facts? What do you do with those guys?
I will assume you've been through the educational system. Did everyone in every class pay full attention, or where there dreamers and goof offs in class? So, you see, there are those who CHOOSE to pay attention and those who CHOOSE not to.

Well, thanks for making it abundantly clear that you believe that you were at least smarter than some other people, although sometimes such were well educated and with high IQ scores, that did not use their free will ability to choose to believe. Then you can always boast that you are smarter than the average non-believing guy and gal. Proved my point exactly.

Of course I didn't. How ridiculous. Did you ask to be born again? Neither did I. So what? God offers salvation by grace (Titus 2:11) and He then does a whole lot MORE than just save us.

So if you did NOT ask to be born again then how can you claim any part of that experience as relating to anything in YOUR will or your "free will choice" of any kind. Yes, it is ridiculous to claim that your birth, whether natural or spiritual, was the result of your own will.

That's what the Bible teaches clearly. And I am not a universalist and the Bible teaches that Christ died for everyone.
Or, if you want to twist "everyone" to only mean "the elect" how do you want to twist 1 Peter 3:18 - For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
Do you want to argue that ONLY "the elect" are 'unrighteous'?

No.

Now, absorb Eph 2:8. Since we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, that proves that we are regenerated the SAME WAY, which is THROUGH FAITH.
So there you have it. Faith before regeneration.

Hello? You still do not read that scripture (Eph.2:1-10) in context. It talks first off about GOD quickening the dead. GOD raising up people from the dead. The dead cannot raise themselves from the dead and the dead cannot believe, as you understand. So it's quickened people who believe. As a result of being quickened, they believe. Can I get that into your head?

Where did you get the silly notion that I think saving faith is something "produced". The Bible doesn't teach that. So why do YOU claim that?
Faith is simply trusting. When YOU trust something (like a bridge or chair), did you have to "produce" that trust? Or how did you come to trusting in it?

It's given that I mean the would be ability that you think resides in old man, which is able to choose to believe.

Calvinists have a very bad habit of ignoring then VERY NEXT VERSE. So let's look at it:
v.45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. ’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
iow, those who paid attention by LISTENING and LEARNING will come to Jesus. Very simple. And free will all the way.
Again, free will at work.

Yes? What about verses 64-65? Do these imply any "free will choice of sinners" to "believe in Jesus"? Free will to choose to follow Jesus only the sheep have (John 10:26-27).

Yes, no man is able to save himself. That is not the issue here at all. And you have completely misunderstood Jesus' answer to the Jews. They asked this in v.28 - Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Keep in mind that the Jews were very works oriented. They wrongly thought salvation was by works. So Jesus used a bit of tongue-in-cheek in His answer in v.29 - Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
He answered them according to their own words.

Why do you make a division of the text where it does not apply? You do not understand the point of "this is the work of God"? It is God's work He is talking about there. As opposed to their own efforts.

And the Bible is very clear about works vs faith. They are DIFFERENT.
Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9 prove that faith or believing is NOT A WORK.
So when you quote John 6:29 OUT OF CONTEXT, you are ignoring a lot of Scripture that refutes your argument.

You are not convincing here. The context includes verse 65. You seem to miss that.

Please don't take "dead" as meaning non-functional, a very common error among evangelicals.
Spiritual death means separation from God. It doesn't mean brain dead and unable to think.
No, I understand what spiritual death means, unlike yourself.
You seem to be taking it to be physical death, or brain death. That's wrong.

It means being spiritually dead and UNABLE to receive the Holy Spirit (John 14:17). This old man cannot in and by himself contribute anything to his justification, it is totally alien to him.

Your error is in thinking that somehow faith contributes to salvation. It doesn't. Where did you get that notion?

Misunderstanding here? I have not claimed that faith is contributing to salvation as per conditioned upon unregenerate man's faith. Faith is how we receive justification.

Paul refutes your theory soundly in Rom 2:14,15
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
In the NT, the word Gentiles generally is used of unbelieving non Jews. And here Paul notes that even Gentiles have a conscience and can differentiate between right and wrong.
And that God WROTE the requirements of the law on their hearts.

Are you saying that unregenerate gentiles have the Law written on their hearts (as in equalling that with the writing of the hearts of the new birth) or...what? That the unbelieving gentiles do have "the requirements" of the Law in their consciences I agree with. This, in and by itself, by no means, enables them to believe the Gospel. Just as little as mere knowledge of sin will lead to remittance of sin.

 

[brightfame52]

It appears that you are unable to connect the dots.

If that were true, and from the introduction of Cornelius at the beginning of Acts, then yes he would have been saved.

However, when Peter explained to the believing Jews in ch 11 as to WHY he went to the home of Gentiles, he said this:

11:14 - He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

So, just who is the "He" here? Glad you asked.

11 “Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying.
12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house.
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.

Oh, so it was the Holy Spirit who told Peter to go there. And then in v.13 we have Peter basically quoting Cornelius stating what the angel told him.

So your argument is against an angel of God, who was sent to Cornelius with instructions. And Cornelius told Peter the angel told him that he WOULD BE SAVED by Peter's message. (v.14)

Why are you being so stubborn against the truth?


Yeah, he was religious and acknowledged the existence of God and sought Him. That has saved exactly NO ONE EVER.

It was the specific gospel message brought by Peter that Cornelius believed and was saved.

It appears you know nothing of what a righteous, just man is. Its a saved person:

Gen 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Prov 9:9

Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Prov 24:16

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Mark 6:20

For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.

Ps 7:9

Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Prov 3:33

The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Prov 4:18

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

See a Just man or woman is a Justified person before God !

 

[brightfame52]

Right

that’s why they have to be saved first

we are saved by grace through faith

Right, they have to be saved by regeneration first before they can have Faith Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[brightfame52]

Your right

yet scripture plus experience is a great guide.

I see you don’t understand this

It has to be scriptural first.

 

[brightfame52]

' cannot...compute ...I must de fault to programme...I...am a ro ..bot ..must come ..back to regeneration precedes faith ..I have ...my syllogism.. a) cannot be b) without c) ..I..am a robot for the system...cannot access scripture , only the system...I cannot answer beyond this ...I do ...not know the bible...cannot compute ..."

Its not possible for the natural man to please God Rom 8:8, yet Faith is pleasing to God, however sinners in the flesh, the natural man cannot produce Faith. God must first work by giving a sinner a new birth otherwise the natural man would not have Faith and could not have Faith, nor do anything that could please God, do you understand ?

 

[brightfame52]

Wow. Your record player is really stuck.

I gave 2 verses that plainly state that Jews REFUSED to believe. Do you understand what that means?

Apparently not. Because your calvinist talking points keep getting in the way.

So I'll explain what it means. It means they chose not to believe. That's what a refusal is. A choice not to engage.

Kinda like your non-responses to the posts of others.

But then, having no support from Scripture, what is there left to respond with?

Peter's explanation to the believers who gave him grief for visiting the home of a Gentile proves that Cornelius wasn't saved before Peter visited. Even though the Spirit told Peter about Cornelius:

34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

Note that Peter wasn't saying that Cornelius was already saved. That is clear from 11:14.

I dont care how many verses you give, it cant change the facts, they who are in the flesh [the natural unregenerate person] cannot please God. Rom 8:8

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

There are so many different topics and ideas and opinions about so many things on this forum. What if someone just wants to get Born Again? Is that complicated and controversial also? Is the on-ramp to salvation hard to find and navigate? What could we say to a lost person just coming in here seeking Jesus?

Let's make at least one thread that is devoid of bickering and arguing and is seeker friendly. Just state how simple it is to come to Jesus and why (don't use it as an opportunity to criticize the previous poster.)

My thought and verse(s) on being/getting Born Again:___________________________

Outstanding thread.

If I had just met someone and they asked me to give them the Gospel, in a nutshell, I would say . . .

Look,

Before the beginning of time, God had an Eternal Plan that would include God Himself coming to earth to redeem His Created and Chosen Children from the Curse that fell upon all of Creation after Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. To prove this, the Lord showed the Tree of Life in the Middle of the Garden, and stated that if they had eaten from this Tree, the Curse would have been lifted and could have been reinstated with God for all Eternity. But God prevented Adam and Eve from eating from that Tree, because the Plan was that humanity would have to wait some 5,500 years or so, before Christ would become that Tree manifest on Calvary Hill. It will be through Jesus, that if a person should eat of His Body and drink of His Blood, they would live forever. Jesus is that Holy Fruit that hung from the Tree of Life.

So John 3:216 tells us that Jesus was sent to earth so as to redeem those who would believe in Him . . . this is the Purpose of Christ. But there is more . . . Colossians 2:9-15 tells us [how] Jesus accomplishes this Work. First, here is John 3:16 followed by Colossians 2:9-15, and note how they flow together (perfectly).

John 3:16-17 KJV - "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

Colossians 2:9-15 KJV - "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Again, John 3:16-17 outlines the Purpose of Christ while Colossians 2:9-15 outlines the Work of Christ. I would maintain that if we do not understand, and adhere to, the "Work" of Christ, it will be nearly impossible that a person is considered "saved."

There are four basic "Works" of Christ and are as follows:

1. Grand the ability to Repent, to actually Turn away from sin and no longer do it.
2. Jesus cuts out and removes the Curse that contains the Sinful Nature.
3. Jesus's death pays the penalty for all sins committed.
4. Christ sends the Eternal, never-leaving Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Once having received the Holy Spirit, the Spirit Himself grants and issues additional gifts and abilities.

When a person has received the Circumcision of Christ, they have crossed over from Death to Life. Because of the Spiritual Hands of Christ, each Child of God will have exchanged their Sinful Nature for the Divine Nature of Christ.

2 Peter 1:4 KJV - "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

When a person lives by the Divine Nature, all worldly laws are fulfilled, or overcome by Christ, that when death occurs, no earthly or worldly Law will matter. Living by the Divine Nature is what sets a person apart from all others on the planet. Possessing the Divine Nature is what makes a person a "stranger in a foreign land." This new Nature is what makes us aliens to even our own family. Now, a person who is reborn in Christ will be guided by the Indwelling Laws of the Spirit of Life.

Romans 8:1-2 KJV - 1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So, not only does a new believer need to believe all of these things about what is expected to happen to them and their lives, but they will need to put their full faith and trust in Christ that when they die, that Jesus is the Lord over life and death and that He alone will promise that they are raised from the dead and taken to their rightly, heavenly place in Heaven.

But in my opinion, there is nothing more important for any believer to know other than that they must expect that their Heart must be Circumcised by Christ. This means that each believer must expect a total change in their character and mindset, for anyone who has received the Circumcision of Christ will certainly have a Romans 12:2 Transformation story . . . perhaps similar to Saul's / Paul's Damascus Road Transformation story. If we do not teach Spiritual Circumcision, we will not teach about True Romans 12:2 Transformation, for they go hand in hand.

 

[throughfaith]

Its not possible for the natural man to please God Rom 8:8, yet Faith is pleasing to God, however sinners in the flesh, the natural man cannot produce Faith. God must first work by giving a sinner a new birth otherwise the natural man would not have Faith and could not have Faith, nor do anything that could please God, do you understand ?

Yes I understand the syllogism Calvinism teaches based on Augustines views leading to regeneration precedes faith. The bible however never says this ,so its a man made theology. The bible however says faith comes by hearing. The bible says it pleases him when people believe. What calvinism is saying if you get passed the sales pitch is that there's one thing man cannot do . And that's ' believe the Gospel ' . That's it. All you would need to do was find a verse that says that man can't believe the Gospel, because faith and repentence is withheld from some . Just something that actually says this . But we find nothing. Its inference .

 

[throughfaith]

It appears you know nothing of what a righteous, just man is. Its a saved person:

Gen 6:9

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Prov 9:9

Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Prov 24:16

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Mark 6:20

For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly.

Ps 7:9

Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Prov 3:33

The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Prov 4:18

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

See a Just man or woman is a Justified person before God !

From the old testament alone how would you know they were regenerated? What verse says so . I don't mean inference because of what we see in the New testament.