No, I was pointing out how people are forgiven of sins. The context is clear about that.
How to be Born Again
- Thread starter oyster67
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26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
I shall implies future tense.
And the previous verse, that you quoted, showed three more shalls.
That means all the 4 shalls will take place in the future, and will happen together.
That also imply that, at present, Israel's sins are not taken away yet.
Now you can understand what Peter is also saying the same thing in Acts 3:19-21, the passage that you claimed was vague?
When Christ returns and wins the battle of Armageddon, Israel WILL most definitely be delivered (saved) from their enemies.
When Christ comes again, there will be no doubt about who He is. Do you seriously think that there will be Jews who stildl reject Christ upon His return?
Sure. When He comes back.
Wrong. When Christ died on the cross, He died for everyone's sins. It was a "once for all" sacrifice. Read Hebrews 7-10 and count how many times the writer used "once for all" in regard to Christ's sacrifice.
I don't believe I said Peter's passage was vague. I believe I said your comments were vague.
Romans 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Verse 23 already told us who 'them' was...
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Unless you are thinking about universalism, Israel the nation has rejected Christ even after the cross. Their leaders stoned Stephen. Romans 11:11 states that the current nation of Israel is now blinded.
Is it that hard for you to consider that the sins of Israel the nation have thus not been forgiven yet, and that will happen in Christ's return for them, as Romans 11:26-27 clearly indicated?
Yes, them refers to the nation Israel, I agree with you, but that is not the issue that is currently being discussed.
Are you agreeing with my point that Israel the nation's sins have not been forgiven yet?
What's the whole thing about being 'Born Again'? My understanding from my Grandfather at 7 years old was that it was the only way to God/Eternal Life. Someting visceral had to happen. That seems profoundly unfair on anyone born into a different culture. A guy called Jesus undoubtedly walked this earth, but the teachings of his seem to have been used throught the ages since for political ends and ultimately for control. That time has ended with secularism here and now. Fundametally, how can any spititual person on this beautiful planet truly believe that Christ was a saviour of human kind and that Allah was not?
Thank you for all the beautiful pictures that you post. Wow!
John 10:27-28
FreeGrace2 said:
Wrong. When Christ died on the cross, He died for everyone's sins. It was a "once for all" sacrifice. Read Hebrews 7-10 and count how many times the writer used "once for all" in regard to Christ's sacrifice.
2 Cor 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Wrong. When Christ died on the cross, He died for everyone's sins. It was a "once for all" sacrifice. Read Hebrews 7-10 and count how many times the writer used "once for all" in regard to Christ's sacrifice.
No, I'm not talking about the false teaching of universalism, that everyone will be saved. Everyone is born spiritually dead. All Gentiles and Jews alike. As Paul said in Rom 3:9 - we are all under sin. That's why Christ died for everyone. And that doesn't lead to or support universalism. Those who think so simply don't know the basis for how one is saved.
All unbelievers are blinded.
2 Cor 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Is it that difficult for YOU to consider that God deals with individuals regarding salvation? God doesn't save nations, or groups of people. He saves individuals.
It is an error to think "something visceral had to happen" regarding being born again. It's a spiritual birth, not visceral. Your "visceral" birth occurred when you came out of your mother.
As to the "whole thing" about being born again, the Bible explains it very well. When a person realizes that they are a sinner and headed to the lake of fire, and that Jesus Christ died for their sins and gives believers (trusters) in Him eternal life so they will be with God in eternity rather than the lake of fire, God the Father gives new birth to believers. They become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17). They become children of God (John 1:12, Gal 3:26).
Are you a Muslim then? Since Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone, what He did was applicable to everyone, regardless of culture.
Everyone is a sinner. Regardless of culture. In fact, culture is irrelevant to the issue of where one's soul will spend eternity.
To believe that Christ IS the Savior of mankind requires taking God at His Word.
What would make anyone think that Allah was a savior?
Oyster, it was a beautiful idea, it really was.
I wish it had been as you asked.
Sadly I don't think that anyone who wasn't sure, and wanted to be sure, would follow this thread for very long... not your fault though. You tried.
It is difficult when Romans 11:25-27 tells you when Israel the nation will be saved.
Israel is the only nation that has a covenant with God. And God promised that he will cut a new covenant with them in the future (Hebrews 8:8-12), where he will remember their sins no more.
I have no idea what you're saying here, I don't agree or disagree. It's very poetic.
I was only trying to make a point with your first comment that answered the question and topic "how are we born again", with, and I quote, "the path is simple....absolute obedience to God....to walk as Jesus did". This is simply not true. I'm not trying to be mean or rude. In fact these are the first few comments I've made for a while,and I don't know that how I'm reading your words represents what you truly meant, or how you truly see salvation working, but the truth of the matter is that this is not at all how we are saved.
Now this new comment throws me off completely. I honestly don't see how these words fit with the pervious comments at all. Again please don't take me as being rude, but I just don't see it. All that aside I do hope you have a great day, thanks for talking with me and in Jesus name have a great day.
I have already explained what 'saved' means in that verse. What are you stuck on?
Right. And?
I am posting verses that tell us that they were cut off because they rejected Jesus, and that they will not be re-grafted until they accept what He did for everyone 2000 years ago. They need to look to the Cross...
So until they are regrafted, their sins are not forgiven. Would you agree with that?