How old is our creation really?

[Lanolin]

Here is the issue with that.

1. They used multiple different sources of different elements to develop different times based off of half lives. So it’s not guess work.

2. The fossil record shows speciation in different geological layers. We don’t see bipedal apes in the Cretaceous. We don’t see humans in the Cretaceous. We don’t see T. rex or any other creature in the same time period with tool marks on their bones and so on. Each layer has different species from big and small, plant and animal, that is not in other layers.

but half lifes are only measuring how fast carbon decays and presupposes its always been a steady state so their assumptions are wrong.

Layers dont necessarily mean the oldest layer is on the bottom and the newest layer is in the top. anyone whos ever made a trifle can have turned it upside down.Also when layers are laid down, often the lightest floats to the top. there has also been fossils of trees across layers.

 

[Lookupnotback]

There are literally hundreds of thousands of peer reviewed published papers in scientific journals by exerts in their field with Ph.Ds talking about the evolution of this or that species, this or that genus, family clade and kingdom.

....riiiiight and so? Shall we get into the story projected out vs what real scientists actually know from the data we have? Your going with the premise of “a” story and not “the” story based on data

 

[Lanolin]

anyone made a fossil? they are easy to make just bury an entire area by flooding it.

 

[Lanolin]

I have a bunch of stats and I can make out any story I want out of a bunch of stats.
If I think a bunch if stats mean this I can make it so it means that. If the argument is convincing, I will show it to my peers to see if they can reproduce it. But as we know stats have variables all the. time. The earth isnt a controlled lab envrionment, thats the thing.

 

[Lookupnotback]

anyone made a fossil? they are easy to make just bury an entire area by flooding it.

...Mt. Saint Helens for example, they got them there.

 

[Skovand]

but half lifes are only measuring how fast carbon decays and presupposes its always been a steady state so their assumptions are wrong.

Layers dont necessarily mean the oldest layer is on the bottom and the newest layer is in the top. anyone whos ever made a trifle can have turned it upside down.Also when layers are laid down, often the lightest floats to the top. there has also been fossils of trees across layers.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/polystrate.html

As for heavy to lightest that does not matter. The layers are not showing mass and weight but speciation and within families and clades it’s showcasing morphology as well.

 

[Skovand]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

 

[Fundamental]

That’s definitely not what the bible teaches.

Yes it does. Read Genesis 6. More genetic variation between human beings. This pops up again after the flood when David is confronted with Goliath. Even when Moses is looking for the promised land they scout humans with eyes like grasshoppers; Meaning Asian people?

 

[Fundamental]

I've struggled with this a lot. The difference is so massive between millions and millions of years and 6 to 10 thousand years.

I am convinced though that the bible doesn't really have any fit with millions of years. The only way it could think is if the millions of years was pre the days of creation in the bible. The days in Gensis themselves just dont give any millions of years indication. The main issue being of a person bring created between days.. if they are created on a certain day and then the next is supposed to be millions or thousands of years .. that person becomes over a thousand or million years old.

But I like the idea of God creating a matured creation. A young earth but looks 'old'


This way you can still have mountains growing at a very slow rate , but they dont have to be millions of years old because they were initially formed mature.

Fast creation and then steady, slow growth

Yes, I like the thought

I think the forces leading up to change are not so gradual but very instant.
Also specific things have to be created simultaneously for it to exist in our current observations and understanding.

...but the change you reaching for is the addition of DNA information, and that just does not happen without a force from outside inflicting it will upon it. Naturally nothing has ever had a “gain” of data but only losses through mutation. Your faith in pseudoscience reveals your lack of knowledge in what we actually know of the processes you wish would happen vs the reality that we know through scientific study.

I don‘t have faith in pseudoscience.
You are reading me wrong but if you want to be all judgemental about it that’s ok.

The data I’ve shared is completely crystal clear. There is a reason why over 99% of all scientists believe it including those that also believe in God and goes to church it’s also why every year more and more Christians believe it as well. In 10 years more Christians will believe in evolution than not. Young earth creationism is one of the devils best tools of using misguided and out of context readings of scripture to drive people away. The number one reason why Christians abandon the faith is because they are deceived into believing that to believe the Bible is to believe in a literal interpretation of genesis 1-2.

You simply don’t know the science and can’t provide another scientific explanation at all. Saying God did it in six days because that’s how you interpret the book is not science.

If you remain in the context of what I am speaking of to you, you did not share any daTa bro.
There is nothing indicating we have evolved from fish to humans. It takes huge leaps of blind faith to get to that faith. And once you are conditioned into it, what faith in God remains? A God that takes fish to turn them over 500 million years into people? That is not the God I serve.
He CREATED each organism with a specific purpose and to its own kind. He blew the life in us and spoke it all into being.

 

[Fundamental]

There are literally hundreds of thousands of peer reviewed published papers in scientific journals by exerts in their field with Ph.Ds talking about the evolution of this or that species, this or that genus, family clade and kingdom.

Yes they know more about creation then Moses and Jesus. We should blindly trust those and forget the Almighty Powerful God that speaks life into existence.

As if creationists have no phd ? Repeating textbook is one, truly understanding the details of it all would expose how little we truly know about genetics.

 

[Lanolin]

species is just 'kinds' in the Bible and they will often socialise together as they are in families so that why certain kinds dont mix with others they cant reproduce cos they just physically cannot do so. Thats why not every kind is all jumbled together, randomly.

some animals and plants dont hybridise well but others can do it freely eg orchids, esp with intervention. Just depends. Others reproduce by cloning, in fact, what God did with .adam and eve was make eve out of adams rib, that was asexual reproduction not sexual. There are lots of different ways to reproduce and multiply.

it could be argued that God didnt really want adam and eve to reproduce sexually at all. He could have made more humans out of adams rib. sexual reproduction is actually a bit random.

 

[Fundamental]

In my beliefs it seems that the Bible indicates before Adam sinned there was no death in the world...... Genesis 3:22-24 and the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from The Garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken _ That scripture alone tells us that the fruit of the Tree of Life gave mankind healing / immortality. Also mentioned in the Book of Revelation...... Romans 5:12 wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and death so passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. It clearly says Adam's sin is the reason death is in the world and immortality was taken away and further reading tells us through Christ immortality can be regained. As well as 1st Corinthians 15:21-22...... It has been taught by the earliest established churches centuries ago and pass down through the generations, that Adam fell the day or at least the year he was created - and they say the creation of Adam took place six thousand years ago. They completely misunderstood scripture and omitted scripture in their analysis..... A few have come to realize that it was 6000 years ago when Adam sinned and fell from grace. Adam and Eve were fruitful and multiply and had begun to replenish some of the Earth. That is the reasoning why the Land of Nod existed, people were already there: they were the descendants of Adam before sin. Adam and Eve lived thousands of years before he sinned and had thousands of children. Children who migrated over the earth. Scripture had no need to mention the people before sin except for Cain's wife...... we also must remember a day to the Lord is as a thousand years and A Thousand Years is as one day. There is no time limit on God and nothing he does - he is not subjected to time, he established time for man to live by.

But when HE addresses humans, does He addresses us in our own time? I believe He does.

 

[Fundamental]

species is just 'kinds' in the Bible and they will often socialise together as they are in families so that why certain kinds dont mix with others they cant reproduce cos they just physically cannot do so. Thats why not every kind is all jumbled together, randomly.

some animals and plants dont hybridise well but others can do it freely eg orchids, esp with intervention. Just depends. Others reproduce by cloning, in fact, what God did with .adam and eve was make eve out of adams rib, that was asexual reproduction not sexual. There are lots of different ways to reproduce and multiply.

it could be argued that God didnt really want adam and eve to reproduce sexually at all. He could have made more humans out of adams rib. sexual reproduction is actually a bit random.

But what about Genesis 2:24-25? The first “command” to humans in Genesis 1 is to be fruitful and reproduce over the entire earth. Genesis 1:28.

 

[Lanolin]

Eve was more like what you do with plants when you take a cutting.
the thing is Eve was the mother of all living so everything she had in her DNA has been passed down to every single human now living on earth. the different varieties of humans (we come in all shapes and sizes) are just all her DNA mixed up in various combinations...of which there acan be millions of differnt sequences.

what happened with adam was many if us still have traces of adam in us. But Jesus blood cleanses us from all sin. Note that Jesus did not have an earthly father, so no trace of adam in him.

 

[Fundamental]

anyone made a fossil? they are easy to make just bury an entire area by flooding it.

While we’re at it:
But you need a great flood to create layers

 

[Lanolin]

But what about Genesis 2:24-25? The first “command” to humans in Genesis 1 is to be fruitful and reproduce over the entire earth. Genesis 1:28.

well this was BEFORE they ate from forbidden fruit and corruption came into their world, speculating this was from indiscriminate sexual activity. eg they went the wrong way about it not on Gods timing.

after the flood they again were told to go forth and multiply, but pretty soon after noahs family came to grief because of Ham.

 

[Fundamental]

well this was BEFORE they ate from forbidden fruit and corruption came into their world, speculating this was from indiscriminate sexual activity. eg they went the wrong way about it not on Gods timing.

after the flood they again were told to go forth and multiply, but pretty soon after noahs family came to grief because of Ham.

But you reproduce by sex so I think Adam and Eve had sex without any shame or thoughts about it

 

[bojack]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

Please look at this chart of actual observed, timed and recorded facts then compare your link detailing potassium-argon radiometric dating with actual known dates and explain ..

 

[Skovand]

Please look at this chart of actual observed, timed and recorded facts then compare your link detailing potassium-argon radiometric dating with actual known dates and explain ..

This is a common response that comes up. This is the typical link I share. I will also reach out to some actual geologist I know and others at BL. Many of them have actively studied this exact situation not only at St. Helens but other volcanos.
Once I get better info and more links, I’ll read through it and cite it.

https://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/mt_st_helens_dacite_kh.htm

 

[Skovand]

Since this is not my particular area of expertise I made a post on BioLogos for others to join in all. My main focus is evolutionary biology and ecology within the overlap of botany and entomology.

I believe those other links on the link I shared brings up enough info to undermine the belief that the data from a single scientist contradicts all the work and studies by hundreds of other scientist. But as someone who is always willing to pursue the truth without being hindered by agendas I’ll put in some extra work.

This is a link on BL Incase anyone wants to follow it.

https://discourse.biologos.org/t/an...t-helens-undermining-radiometric-dating/44122