I thought the mystery was Christ in us, the hope of glory. Now I will have to look.
How mysticism is undermining Bible Christianity today
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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There’s 22 verses speaking of mystery in the NT. The kingdom of God which is within, is one.
But, I came across this verse that seems to be at odds with this thread.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Hidden. The glory of God.
Deep calls to deep.
But, I came across this verse that seems to be at odds with this thread.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Hidden. The glory of God.
Deep calls to deep.
Please note what Paul says here:
Colossians 2
1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
The Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ, is the mystery of the triune Godhead itself. No human mind can comprehend that even though God is one, He has existed eternally as three divine Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each one of them is God and distinct from each other. All wisdom and knowledge belongs to the Godhead.
At the same time, the Head (or authority over) the Son and the Spirit is the Father -- "the Head of Christ is God" (1 Cor 11:3). While Jesus said that all power and authority in Heaven and on earth are His (after His resurrection), yet when Christ has established the Kingdom of God in the universe, and subdued all things unto Himself, He will hand back to the Father everything and be subject to Father (1 Cor 15:28). Here again we have a mystery, in that the Father calls the Son "God" (Heb 1:8,9) which means exactly what it says, and yet the Son is subject to the Father.
Paul was addressing the heresies of Gnosticism in this epistle, and Gnosticism is another aspect of Mysticism: "The apparent mysticism in the Gnostic gospels is part of the attraction. The appeal to self-centeredness, individualism, and the willingness to be told what is most gratifying draws in those who are in search of meaning... One of the main things which separated the Gnostics from orthodox Christians was the mysticism of their beliefs. It began with their views of God and creation. They viewed the One which they called the true God as having a feminine part which was the Spirit. In accord, they also held that Jesus came from God and the Spirit to form the Trinity...."
https://www.allaboutreligion.org/mysticism-in-the-gnostic-gospels-faq.htm
Gnostic teachings are the *enticing words* mentioned by Paul, which are meant to beguile Christians. The Gnostics taught several heresies about Christ and the Godhead, but they also taught that some were selected to receive special esoteric knowledge which was hidden from others (the same as the Kabbalists). And Mystics also believe that they are special in relation to other *second-class* Christians.
The Deity of each( the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is revealed in Scripture or are you calling Scripture 'man-made'? Besides what ever your view on the topic is, if it's not revealed in Scripture it is definitely man-made. Care to share it?
Or maybe you are trying to defend 'Christian' mysticism where man can have a direct relationship with God apart from Jesus Christ?
I read from the website you posted and certainly am not in agreement with anything written there as gnostic.
What I felt wrong that you included was the allegorical meanings that we see with studying Hebrew words. It is a poetic language and paints pictures of Jesus in the OT. There are 5 ways of interpreting scripture accepted by Jews and the allegorical is one of them.
The parables are an example and the meanings were hidden to some.
J
jaybird88
Guest
the trinity is a doctrine. doctrine is of man.
"dont murder" - thats scripture
scripture and doctrine are not the same, you know this.
i am a big believer in mysticism being as Jesus taught it. IMO it is whats missing from the faith today. when you remove it your making the bible into a common textbook.
Since you have a problem with 'doctrine' it is in the Bible in case you haven't noticed...about 53 times. Here is a sample, enjoy...
Deuteronomy 32:2 KJV
[2] My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Matthew 7:28 KJV
[28] And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Acts 2:42 KJV
[42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Romans 6:17 KJV
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 16:17 KJV
[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
1 Timothy 4:1,6 KJV
[1] Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [6] If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1 Timothy 6:3 KJV
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2 Timothy 3:16 KJV
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 John 1:10 KJV
[10] If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
I agree. Our connection is with the Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't see how that really changes anything. I guess a better way of saying it is I don't fully understand what you are implying.
Maybe I just don't understand what the argument is.
Drawing near to God is nothing mysterious or elitist but involves things like regular prayer, studying God's Word, worshipping God, and fellowshipping with other believers. Our efforts pale in comparison to the work God Himself does in us. In fact, our efforts are more a response to His work than they are something that originates in us.
There is mystery, yet the way in which we are called to live is not at all mysterious. Study the Word, seek to honor God, and allow His Holy Spirit to work within you.
All we have to do is have faith, and confess Christ, and allow the Spirit to lead us, and everything we need from God will be given to us, and to have a relationship with Him by the Spirit.
For the natural man does not understand, but God revealed the truth to those with the Spirit, and we are complete in Christ, for all we need from God we can find in Christ alone, and we put on Christ, so it is all there.
If there is any mystery the Bible talks about it only means that people that do not accept salvation, or are a hypocrite, will fail at having God fully working in their life, and revealing all things to them pertaining to the kingdom of God.
Or that is was a plan that was not revealed until later, or the mystery of Christ which the world, the natural man, cannot understand that salvation, for the cross is foolishness to them, and the mystery of God shall be finished one day, which means the world will know who is God, for the book of Revelation is the revealing of Jesus to the world when He appears in a glorified body, and puts down the world.
There is no mystery except people not accepting the truth of the Gospel of Christ, and being led of the Spirit, for if you are led of the Spirit there is no mystery.
And all that is required of us to have everything from God is love, for love is the fulfilling of the law, and the Spirit helps us to love perfectly.
All we have to work for is loving people, and all is given us to know God for we fulfilled His law.
It seems like mysticism is an arrogant thing of people that think they are elite above other people that they can attain unto things that others cannot comprehend.
Mysticism tends to seek out the experience and is sometimes seen as secretive or elitist. Christians are aware of and engaged in spiritual realities, and biblical Christianity involves spiritual experience, but intimacy with God is intended for all Christians and is not veiled by any sort of mysterious practice.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
The new age movement false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, which they believe they can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a teacher in the evolutionary process, enlightenment, and love, and an ascended master, and avatar, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolutionary process, who does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as his higher power, and will claim to be God by harnessing the power of nature, evolving, and will share this power with all who follow him, which the Christ conscience will come upon them, and they will evolve like the man Jesus.
But although they have mysticism now they believe when the New Age Christ appears claiming to be God that all people that follow him will be greater, and spiritual.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and the time will come when the world will not endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts, the new age movement interpretation of the Bible that exalts people by evolving to be greater, and spiritual, and there is no higher power above them.
The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and they would like for the Christian Churches, and Islam, and Judaism, to be involved in occult practices, and mysticism, and look at things from that perspective, as well as all religions.
There is mystery, yet the way in which we are called to live is not at all mysterious. Study the Word, seek to honor God, and allow His Holy Spirit to work within you.
All we have to do is have faith, and confess Christ, and allow the Spirit to lead us, and everything we need from God will be given to us, and to have a relationship with Him by the Spirit.
For the natural man does not understand, but God revealed the truth to those with the Spirit, and we are complete in Christ, for all we need from God we can find in Christ alone, and we put on Christ, so it is all there.
If there is any mystery the Bible talks about it only means that people that do not accept salvation, or are a hypocrite, will fail at having God fully working in their life, and revealing all things to them pertaining to the kingdom of God.
Or that is was a plan that was not revealed until later, or the mystery of Christ which the world, the natural man, cannot understand that salvation, for the cross is foolishness to them, and the mystery of God shall be finished one day, which means the world will know who is God, for the book of Revelation is the revealing of Jesus to the world when He appears in a glorified body, and puts down the world.
There is no mystery except people not accepting the truth of the Gospel of Christ, and being led of the Spirit, for if you are led of the Spirit there is no mystery.
And all that is required of us to have everything from God is love, for love is the fulfilling of the law, and the Spirit helps us to love perfectly.
All we have to work for is loving people, and all is given us to know God for we fulfilled His law.
It seems like mysticism is an arrogant thing of people that think they are elite above other people that they can attain unto things that others cannot comprehend.
Mysticism tends to seek out the experience and is sometimes seen as secretive or elitist. Christians are aware of and engaged in spiritual realities, and biblical Christianity involves spiritual experience, but intimacy with God is intended for all Christians and is not veiled by any sort of mysterious practice.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
The new age movement false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, which they believe they can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a teacher in the evolutionary process, enlightenment, and love, and an ascended master, and avatar, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher in the evolutionary process, who does not acknowledge a personal God, but honors the God of forces, or the power of nature as his higher power, and will claim to be God by harnessing the power of nature, evolving, and will share this power with all who follow him, which the Christ conscience will come upon them, and they will evolve like the man Jesus.
But although they have mysticism now they believe when the New Age Christ appears claiming to be God that all people that follow him will be greater, and spiritual.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and the time will come when the world will not endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts, the new age movement interpretation of the Bible that exalts people by evolving to be greater, and spiritual, and there is no higher power above them.
The new age movement is the future for this sinful world, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and they would like for the Christian Churches, and Islam, and Judaism, to be involved in occult practices, and mysticism, and look at things from that perspective, as well as all religions.
The new age movement is the future for this sinful world?
You give the devil too much credit.
The antichrist will have nothing superior than himself.
The future for the body of Christ is found in Daniel. They that know their God will do exploits. And the harvest is on. Many coming into the kingdom now but will increase.
Arise shine for the Light has come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon you!
Awake O you sleeper...get up get up..arise from the dead and let your glory shine...Jesus Christ is risen in you...Janny Grein.
You give the devil too much credit.
The antichrist will have nothing superior than himself.
The future for the body of Christ is found in Daniel. They that know their God will do exploits. And the harvest is on. Many coming into the kingdom now but will increase.
Arise shine for the Light has come and the glory of the Lord is risen upon you!
Awake O you sleeper...get up get up..arise from the dead and let your glory shine...Jesus Christ is risen in you...Janny Grein.
The new age movement is the beginning of the end for the wicked, and the antichrist will exalt himself above all that is called God, or is worshipped, and exalt himself above all people, but it has to start somewhere for the antichrist to get to that point to rule over the world.
For the antichrist cannot rule over the world unless the people accept his type of beliefs, and the new age movement is putting out those type of beliefs, so the new age movement is a stepping stone to get the world to go towards the beast kingdom.
But when the antichrist claims to be God they will do away with the stepping stone, new age movement, unified religious system, for it is no longer needed for their greatness, and spirituality, is by the New Age Christ.
That is why secret societies, inner circle, are secret other than them thinking they are elite, for their beliefs are too extreme for mainstream society for they would never accept it, and they would not get very far for they would be shut down by the vast majority of people who do not believe that way.
So they put out an outer circle, same as Freemasonry, that is a lighter version of it, and after process of time more and more people accept it, and they get caught up more in the flesh wanting power through nature as human nature will do, and by the time they get to the nearing of the beast kingdom, and the antichrist shows up the outer circle became the inner circle, and the beast kingdom can be implemented as they believe the New Age Christ will cause them to evolve to be greater, and spiritual.
The antichrist cannot rule unless the people are influenced beforehand, which is why God warns us of the new age movement that is a stepping stone to the coming antichrist, like United Nations is a stepping stone to the nations coming together in the future to try to establish peace on earth.
God is allowing the world 7 years to have their way, and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast, and when they do then He will end this sin business on earth, so the devil can work among the wicked more than he could in the past, and at the beginning of the last three and one half years the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit, which means the devil is off his chain concerning the wicked, and will deceive all people who do not love God.
In the millennial reign the devil is back in the bottomless pit, which means he is back on his chain, but this time without any influence on the people until the end of the millennial reign then he is off his chain and deceives the people, and they go against the saints, and God puts them down and the millennial reign is over.
Without the new age movement the antichrist would never show up for the people would not be influenced that way the vast majority of people, and without outer circles, the secret societies could not get their ways out there in a lighter version, and then let the flesh work on them as they lust for more power over time, for that is what the occult is all about trying to exalt yourself as high as possible by the power of nature.
And the new age movement came out because God is getting ready to end this sin business on earth, and that is the beginning of the deception that will lead to the beast kingdom, and the antichrist.
The new age movement is the future for this world as being a unified religious system in the future when the nations come together, for only their interpretation of religions will be part of it, and then the world will follow the antichrist and God will put them down.
I do not give the devil any credit, but it is time for God to end this sin business on earth, so the devil can work in the world more than the past, and the new age movement is the beginning of that deception.
Ok, I don’t want to be argumentative, and I don’t know a lot about the new age beliefnd . But, In my understanding of end time happenings, which I do confess I know little about this too...I understood that the Jews will receive this man of sin as the messiah.
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
If you are an unsaved Jew, you can believe that. If you are a saved Christian, you should ignore what unsaved Jews believe or do not believe. If there are five ways to interpret the Hebrew Scriptures, then the Lord Jesus Christ would not have asked pointed questions of the Pharisees to elicit the one correct meaning.
Parables are parables, and Christ has indeed revealed their hidden meanings to saved Christians, but not to unsaved Jews. And the reason He used parables was to hide the meaning from those who refused to believe on Him.
Mat 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
The scriptures are living and rich with meaning. Like dessert after meat and potatoes. Seeing Jesus in the OT.
Have a cookie Nehemiah.
Mysticism panders to the age old craving of wanting to be like God without submitting to God's authority. God has placed the cross of Jesus between mankind and Himself, so whoever tries entering another way (as the mystics try to do ) is a thief and robber. We must come through the Blood of Jesus to approach God, not by witchcraft, mediums, familiar spirits or even our own intellects, mental telepathy, OBEs ,etc.
Doctrine is teaching and that is exactly what the bible does.........
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
It's a shame how New Zealand is being destroyed from within (spiritually and politically).
But Paul wrote this in AD 61 prior to the completion of the canon of scripture. In other words there was still lots of objective revelation to come from the writers of scripture.
I mostly agree with what you say here.
But what about what the OP defined as mysticism? Can there be such a thing as a non-subjective revelation of Christ?
Doesn't a revelation HAVE to be subjective? You can't have my revelation, right?
I'm not saying that a subjective revelation trumps what is written in the bible. I personally think a subjective revelation helps a person understand what is already written and makes it personal to themselves.