How much does your personal experiences affect your faith?

[oldhermit]

I fully agree with this post, but I would also say 100% of the church interprets scripture according to their own experiences. It is for this reason that I choose "very much", because I am very much a sinner. If I claim that my faith is fully in line with scripture, then I feel I assert a claim that I fully understand all scripture and the Godhead. This would be a lie, so I cannot say that even though I want to. To that end, my identity as a totally depraved man is the personal experience that affects my faith the most. So when I say very much, I mean very much a sinner.

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Like those in the world, most of us in the Church have been taught from birth that there is an acceptable, logical, and rational way in which we are expected to view situations in life. We evaluate human events based on a sensible horizon. This view of our world is drawn from life experiences and is passed down to each succeeding generation by parents and teachers. We treat knowledge as an emerging social property rather than a shared conditionality with God. Society tells us what must be regarded as useful knowledge. This philosophy has certainly had a measure of influence within the Church. Desiring to retain credibility as Christian members of society we attempt to bring our social and cultural experiences to bear upon scripture to make sense of the world around us. We tend to interpret the text dependent upon our place within society. With such an approach to the text, a farmer, a businessman, a lawyer, a doctor, and a teacher would all have formulated varying interpretations of the text based on their individual experiences. Members of society attempt to understand scripture by mapping what society regards as acceptable knowledge onto the text. We are told that we must always engage the text in such a way that it will not come into conflict with our views of "reality". We are taught that in the face of real life situations we must react to these events in a sensible and rational way because we live in a "real world" where physics and physiology must be confronted. This approach to the text embraces man as the source of causation. We attempt to manipulate a given situation in such a way as to develop all the necessary antecedents to create a solution to the situation. Indeed, man has always attempted to find his own answers to human experiences.

As we examine scripture however, we see that God repeatedly and deliberately places man in the most unfavorable circumstances to show us that resolution never comes out of circumstances, no matter how man may attempt to manipulate the relative conditions of a given situation. The overwhelming lesson of scripture is that resolution always and only comes from the Lord. The promises of God are the source of redemptive causation that He imposes upon the situation. In this way, He causes things in the natural order to come into a state of unity with His will. Resolution always stands outside of and beyond the control of man no matter how he attempts to forge a situation to his favor. We can ill afford to approach our experiences as though any kind of symmetry can exist between our situation and the "sensible" horizon. We must learn to ignore what we understand about physics and physiology and allow the promises of God to determine the outcome of our experiences. These elements, although real, are not determinate. In scripture, these things are never determinate factors when we consider the promises of God. The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.

 

[Crossfire]

I don't mean to hijack the poll. I have never perceived such a thing as totally depraved man before accepting Christ and then a partly depraved man after accepting Christ. My understanding is that I will be fully depraved in my flesh until I am reunited with Jesus Christ, glorified. I could very well be wrong. Again, this is how my personal experience affects my faith and my total dependency on Him. According to what you are saying with 2 Peter 1, we can live lives 100% free of sin. Maybe I misunderstand you, but it seems you believe scripture says you can live as a man or woman on this earth and never sin? This would be where your faith is affected by your interpretation of scripture as it is different from mine. But I am not going to say my interpretation is right, but just that I am a sinner most identified by that erroneous experience. Anyway...it all starts going around in circles...which is why I my faith's anchor is my experience that I am a sinner.

Did you hear me say one word about sinless perfection? Nope. Nadda. Not one word.

The thing about living a life of walking in the Spirit, it's no different than when Peter asked Jesus if he could walk on water to Him, the moment you take your mind off Christ you too will sink.

 

[PopClick]

Only one choice applies, so it will be clear where you lay your emphasis.

Of course you may explain your views further, if you wish.

If I had no personal reaction (such as peace) to anything about Christianity, I would doubt that Jesus was really the way. If it was just a matter of picking a "holy" book and following it, with no personal experience to qualify my choice...

I don't know if that's what you were asking or not.

 

[abair]

faith shape our personality it is a part of who we are
every person have his own experiences
then the experiences have affects on our personality but if they affects that deep part of us either we are weak or we did not believe at the first time
but if we really believe in something no experiences could affect our faith

 

[Abiding]

I agree 100% that scripture is indeed the absolute authority and that our experiences, if any, should line up with scripture.

However, I have discovered that a great majority of the church tends to interpret scripture according to their own "experiences". While many like to point the finger at Pentecostals and Charismatics as the guilty party, the truth is that non-charismatics are just as guilty, if not more so, for attempting to interpret scripture according to their own lack of "experiences".

The doctrine of cessationism, the belief that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no longer for today, completely contradicts scripture. There is absolutely nothing written in scripture which indicates that anything has changed since the founding of the church at Pentecost and scripture clearly indicates that nothing will change until the literal second coming of Christ once the current Great Commission is fulfilled. Cessationism is but one of many man made doctrines which attempts to either add to or take away from scripture.

Scripture says what it means and means what it says. As believers in Christ, our job is t conform our way of thinking to the biblical standard through the renewing of our minds and the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit. We are to possess the very mind of Christ. Anything less is entirely unbiblical.

Because of lack of experience? what is experience? And what do you do with it? Did Eve have an experience? What do you mean? Your here again...talk about all your experiences...bible school...church experiences ...etc...exalt yourself and tell us again why you have all your opinions...like a mantra.
im ready to write your biography since thats all you talk about is you...dont exalt Christ exalt your attitudes
and experiences that will show us we need to listen to you. Your a expert on the Christian life and have dug your foxhole. To bad. Ignorance is a beautiful thing. Jesus told the pharisees that because they knew they would die in their sins. Im not putting that on you but its just something you should think about,,,,since youve obviously taking sides, and have little understanding with your experiences.

 

[tribesman]

Thanks all for your inputs. There are some that have posted but not voted. If you post, why not vote? And, yes, the question is to be understood as is.

However, I should do first what I ask from others and I actually only just recently voted, at the writing of this post. After giving it substantial thought this morning (it's kinda tight that you can only choose one single alternative, by intention, which might scare away some I guess) I came to the conclusion that my own vote is for "Little".

This is how I see it: I do not chop up experiences into two spiritual and non-spiritual parts; personal experience equals our daily lives and absolutely everything that happens has a meaning. If I say that my personal experience affects my faith much or very much, then risk is that I have a faith that is dependent upon advantageous circumstances and it will be much, if not all, all about me, myself and I. I do not view faith as something that originates in me or has any other object than Christ alone. Therefore my good or bad experiences should not move it either way. Shortly put: I do not uphold faith, faith upholds me. Neither do I hold to an individualistic view of faith, I would stress the commonality of it and thus it must always be related to the church, in particular the local brethren. This regardless of the nature of my experiences. I am not to dig myself down in my experiences but rather follow charity. I can not let experiences, up or down, bright days with heavenly encounters and dark days of devilish attacks, hinder that. However, this said, I believe it is practically impossible to say that experiences do not affect my faith at all, even though it is true that faith must be unmoved by experiences. How is this then? Because even that experiences do not affect my faith because my faith is focused on Christ alone, it must at least be my personal experience that experiences do no affect my faith .

 

[tribesman]

Addendum: there is much to the option of personal experiences affecting ones faith, in so far as it is in line with the Word of God. However, there is also a little risk there for self-centeredness, because it might mean that I have to very muchtrust that my own (or my tradition's) understanding of the Bible is absolutely 100% correct on everything. Worst off, there can be a focus shift there. And the risk is also that I begin to chase experiences that I read about in the Bible in order to "prove" faith. So, while it is important that our experiences lines up with scripture and are understood by scripture, they still cannot serve as the object of faith.

 

[tribesman]

If I had no personal reaction (such as peace) to anything about Christianity, I would doubt that Jesus was really the way. If it was just a matter of picking a "holy" book and following it, with no personal experience to qualify my choice...

I don't know if that's what you were asking or not.

Well, yes, you've understood the question. Just cast a vote above.

I guess your vote would be that experiences affect your faith much?

 

[Ariel82]

you talk about the object of faith.

i thought you were asking about Faith itself, which if given by God can not change in its nature only in its strength and fruitfulness....

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ

2 peter 1 says we can add to that faith, but each has a measure of faith given by God and its not our experiences that increase our faith but the Holy Spirit who tells us how to understand those experiences

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

so i guess i view personal experience as a way God uses to strenghten our faith, but God as the source and the true cause of change, not the experiences themselves

 

[greatblue]

Addendum: there is much to the option of personal experiences affecting ones faith, in so far as it is in line with the Word of God. However, there is also a little risk there for self-centeredness, because it might mean that I have to very muchtrust that my own (or my tradition's) understanding of the Bible is absolutely 100% correct on everything. Worst off, there can be a focus shift there. And the risk is also that I begin to chase experiences that I read about in the Bible in order to "prove" faith. So, while it is important that our experiences lines up with scripture and are understood by scripture, they still cannot serve as the object of faith.

Tribesman, thanks for generating this poll. The more time I spent reflecting, the more I felt like I was getting twisted like a pretzel. Praise be to Jesus Christ the author and perfecter of faith!

 

[oracle2world]

How much does your personal experiences affect your faith?

A lot.

I like my faith, a lot.

Faith and belief in God's unconditional love makes me stronger, more resilient, and accepting of our world as it is. Simple test, just go out and do some heavy exercise thinking about what's for dinner tonight. Then do the same drawing upon your faith and inner strength. You have to notice some difference. Maybe a little, maybe a lot, but something.

Sorry if that may sound a little selfish. If we are going to accept our faith, then we have to accept it all, including all the good it does for us. The downside to faith is that it shows all the windows for connecting to people, that often as not are closed. When an atheist closes the window, it is sad. When political types use faith for their own agenda, it is sad. There is a women in Pennsylvania very active in the Democratic party all her life, and finally broke with them because of her Catholic faith. Immediately the political types pounced for their own agendas. That was a very difficult personal decision for her, and deserved respect and privacy. She did not get respect and privacy for her very personal and difficult decision.

Maybe the personal experiences that have shaped my faith the most, are those with folks who look and wonder at faith like it is a foreign country. Like "how can you possibly believe in [fill in the blank]?" It all makes sense to me, and if folks do not understand it, that is not my problem.

Que sara sara.

 

[jamieedmonds10]

These posts are really Amazing. Wow. Very Interesting.

 

[SantoSubito]

I didn't vote because there wasn't a 50/50 option or something similar. While personal experience is important it should not be the dominating factor in a persons faith, especially since "personal experience" so often equates with emotion, and emotion fades. Intellectualism has been a part of Christianity since the earliest times, and it has its giants that have left an unmistakable mark on Christian thought (St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin for instance).

St. John of the Cross, the famous Catholic mystic, often said (I'm paraphrasing since I can't find the exact quote) that "Those who pray to taste the sweetness (i.e. emotion) they find therein flee from prayer when they no longer taste this sweetness".

That is unfortunately true, I have heard multiple stories of people (mostly in the Pentecostal movement) finding it hard to pray because they no longer feel the emotion they once felt. They feel as though God has abandoned them, when in reality they're going through what St. John of the Cross called the "Dark Night of the Soul", which is but an intermediate period where God purifies us to enter into a faith that isn't based on how we feel.

 

[tribesman]

...Intellectualism has been a part of Christianity since the earliest times, and it has its giants that have left an unmistakable mark on Christian thought (St. Thomas Aquinas or John Calvin for instance)..l.

Thanks for your input. However, I must object to this common misconception about Calvin and intellectualism. Though Calvin was clear on that faith brings knowledge with it, something which ultimately affects our intellect, he explicitly renounced that this knowledge was intellectual in nature. Its origins is wholly divine and cannot be worked up by the human intellect. This has become an issue in some circles since so much of evangelicalism is influenced by the philosophy of romanticism (mainly through pietism) which has an unscriptural idea that there is a dichotomy between "heart" and "head". This is a huge issue actually. But off topic. I'm sure we'll return to that issue elsewhere.

 

[SantoSubito]

Thanks for your input. However, I must object to this common misconception about Calvin and intellectualism. Though Calvin was clear on that faith brings knowledge with it, something which ultimately affects our intellect, he explicitly renounced that this knowledge was intellectual in nature. Its origins is wholly divine and cannot be worked up by the human intellect.

From what I've read of Calvin he seems pretty intellectual in most of his reasoning. While we may attribute it to different things the point is he did not deemphasize "head knowledge".

This has become an issue in some circles since so much of evangelicalism is influenced by the philosophy of romanticism (mainly through pietism) which has an unscriptural idea that there is a dichotomy between "heart" and "head". This is a huge issue actually. But off topic. I'm sure we'll return to that issue elsewhere.

Thats what I've noticed as well. I hear a lot of people say "I feel this is true", when how you feel has no bearing on whether or not something is true. Mormonism's "burning in the bosom" comes to mind as well.

 

[tribesman]

From what I've read of Calvin he seems pretty intellectual in most of his reasoning. While we may attribute it to different things the point is he did not deemphasize "head knowledge".

Calvin made it very clear that the knowledge in question is not intellectual in nature (Institutes III.2.XIV). Yet of course this knowledge affects the intellect, wherewith one serves God.

There is no such thing as "head" knowledge versus "heart" knowledge. That is a modern and romantic myth, fostered by pietists and charismatics. Heart and head are one in scripture.

Thats what I've noticed as well. I hear a lot of people say "I feel this is true", when how you feel has no bearing on whether or not something is true. Mormonism's "burning in the bosom" comes to mind as well.

And much of this stems from the folly that there is a huge gulf between "head" and "heart". It always end up in tolerating and embracing heresy.

 

[ed12]

Hi Guys,
I am almost ready to switch off but I wanted to reply before my eyelids shut down. Therefore I have skipped the previous page. Maybe next time. 1 am a "very much " man. God "keeps" me and "blesses" me. Sure, I did not understand this until after Jesus called me, but looking back especially to so called disasters in my carnal life, I can see that it was His Keeping, my blessing and it is with full confidence that I can say that there is not one incident in my life that I would change. The sum of all these incidences has grown my faith to the level it now is at. I also know this, We can't be saved until we recognise we are in trouble and the more often we are saved the more our trust grows. It could be said that most of the peoples of the world don't recognized how much trouble they are in because if they did they would be crying out to Him. This is easy to see when you are drowning. Then you know you are dying, then it is so much easier to call out then say, WOW. It is far outside ones comfort zone where we overcome our human nature and call out. His love is totally amazing. Give thanks, give thanks, give thanks. Daily He is working in your life if you live in the kingdom of God.
love in Jesus
ed12

 

[tribesman]

you talk about the object of faith.

i thought you were asking about Faith itself, which if given by God can not change in its nature only in its strength and fruitfulness....

2 peter 1 says we can add to that faith, but each has a measure of faith given by God and its not our experiences that increase our faith but the Holy Spirit who tells us how to understand those experiences

so i guess i view personal experience as a way God uses to strenghten our faith, but God as the source and the true cause of change, not the experiences themselves

I'll give you that it might be that the usage of mine of the term "object of faith" (which this Q boils down to, quite a bit) can give questions like yours here. That was not my intent with the usage. I wish not to confuse things at all. The question is How much does your personal experiences affect your faith? I wish not to chop up the term faith here nor go into splitting hairs. Btw 2Peter1 I would say deal not so much with faith directly, it deals more with its consequences (and the question would remain how this affects one's faith).

If one for example says that faith can change in strength and fruitfulness then I guess that person would hold to that experiences affects faith to quite some degree. I mean that regardless whether the experiences be wholly of God, or from self or from the evil world or whatever is of secondary importance. The question is still if these experiences affects one's faith or not. And if so how etc.

Anyway, you have made a relevant input and explained how you see it and that's OK.

 

[meecha]

The promises of God will always influence the material stream and bring it into conformity with His will no matter how overwhelming we may think the physical factors may be. It is not an easy assignment to see our place in the world through the eyes of the Almighty, yet this is what He requires of us. God calls this faith.

thanks for that...great read and very encouraging

 

[pickles]

There was a time when personal expeariance was a big part of my faith, but not so much anymore.
Tribesman, there was no box for the answer I give.
As much as God chooses to glorify Himself in them!
For He works all things to His good perpose.

I wonder though if this is the differance between milk and meat.
There was a time when I looked to personal expeariance in all I knew in faith.
For that was how I was drawn and was fed.
But Jesus has died for me in flesh, so I will live with Him in Spirit.
Now ? As God said I am, so is the faith called to.
I still have struggles, and Im deffinatly not perfect by any means, but in all that is the eternal now, it is no longer personal expeariance, but the goal seen, the perfect.
Wish I could say this better, but I sence you'll understand .

God bless
pickles