How do you get saved?
- Thread starter Burn1986
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A blood bought, blood washed child of God
???
Condemnation most certainly does not rest on unbelief! What a foolish thing to write.
A person is not condemned because of unbelief, he stands already condemned because of sin.
Romans 6:23 — English Standard Version (ESV)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You are totally and I suspect purposely missing the simple truth of Mark 16:16.
Jesus states salvation is through belief and baptism.
Condemnation is mankind's state because of sin without belief and baptism.
Hence the existence of such verses as Acts 2:38, 1st Peter 3:21, Acts 22:16, John 3:5 etc.
We may debate what constitutes "believes and baptism" but not the need for both of them.
If we can twist such a straight forward verse as Mark 16:16 then nothing is safe.
Just out of curiosity, in Mark 16:16, why do you think the "shall be saved" is in the future and not in the present or aorist tense if belief and baptism cause salvation? According to your interpretation of the verse (at least as I understand it- and I could have misunderstood you), shouldn't someone become saved exactly when one believes and baptized?
This belief is for all baptisms both infant and adult. They see baptism as the means and point of the remission of sins.
They do not accept the sincere moment of faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior of Mankind as the moment of remission of sins.
Mark 16:16 is written in the future tense.
All hopes of salvation are written in the future tense.
Hence the opening of the Book of Life is a future event.
I truly hope you are, but that occurs by being baptized into him as the scriptures teach: no other way can you contact the cleansing blood of Christ except through baptism. We're baptized into his death and it was at his death his blood was shed (Rom 6) and our baptism simulates it as well so we may be raised as he was.
No, not all references to being saved are always in the future tense. I believe these are present tense.
[1Co 1:18 KJV] 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
[1Co 15:2 KJV] 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[2Co 2:15 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
[Eph 2:5 KJV] 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Jesus was speaking in real time regarding those in the future who would believe on him and be baptized accordingly, resulting in their salvation.
Don't think so. The "shall be saved" is future relative to the believeth and baptized.
Once again, if water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Your argument is with John 3:18 and not with me.
There are a handful of alleged prooftexts which are often cited by water-salvationists in an effort to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. Yet a careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that baptism is associated with salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.
I'm confused. Yes, shall be saved is future relative to Jesus speaking in real time. Anything Jesus said as the words were coming our of his mouth regarding what people would or should do afterwords would be in the future, i.e.; If someone did it the following day.
To supplement my response to you just posted which I can't change for some reason, also read the original Greek in the interlinear. It says " the one having believed and having been baptized will be saved"
No, the "shall be saved" (future tense), is after whenever the "believeth and is baptized" happens. It was not meant as relative to
Jesus's speaking but being saved relative to the "believeth and is baptized".
Yes, that is my point. If Mat 16:16 meant someone is saved because they believe and are baptized, then their being saved
would be immediate when they did so, but not in the future, so, the verse doesn't mean what Lamar and you interpret it to mean -
that believing and baptism is requisite to, and activation for, becoming saved.
Saved from what is the question you need to address. Whar are we saved from? We are saved from sins we've already committed.
In my opinion, a better question to be addressed would be saved how, since believing and baptism don't, and can't, cause it, per our
Mat 16:16 discussion.
I'm confused again, because the scripture you quoted says exactly the opposite of what you claimed, in plain English. (I think you mean Mark not Matthew)
Mk 16:15-16
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Belief + baptism = salvation per verse 16