How do we explain these pro slavery verses in scripture?

[Off123123123]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

1. Say some form of, “Well we have to trust God is just and right.” ?
2, Say this was a much different culture than us? If yes, then how can we say other scriptures must be followed, since they too were in MUCH different times than ours?
3. Some other explanation.

Ex 21:7 "Now if a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

Deut 20: 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the animals, and everything that is in the city, all of its spoils, you shall take as plunder for yourself

Numbers 31: 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 However, all the girls who have not known a man intimately, keep alive for yourselves.

Lev 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

Lev 22:11 But if a priest buys a slave as his property with his money, that person may eat of it,

 

[Off123123123]

I’ve also heard some say, that God didn’t need to explicitly speak against it because through the seed of the Gospel it would go away. But that doesn’t make sense, because he explicitly speaks against other things and doesn’t leave it to the seed of the Gospel eliminating said thing.

 

[notmyown]

*bump*

it was a busy weekend for lots of us, so i'm putting this forward to see what people think.

 

[JohnDB]

Anthropology studies of the Ancient Near East explain a lot of this.

Women were about a half step above property at the time. A groom would "buy" his wife by paying a hefty "bride price".
In the Ketubah (marriage contract) the husband was required to have intimate relations with his wife a certain number of times each week. Less if he had a physically demanding job but more if it was more administrative in nature.

Women needed children as their retirement plan. They often sought to get pregnant by anyone they could. Starvation in old age is not pretty. Food was money and money was food. There were no such things as government social security or welfare.

And the meaning of the word "slave" was somewhat fluid and could be what we would call a "hired hand" who worked for low wages but got room and board as part of his/her wages.

It was a commodity based economy. Meaning printed and coined money was rare. You could pay debts in grain, oil, spices or wine.

 

[Moses_Young]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

1. Say some form of, “Well we have to trust God is just and right.” ?
2, Say this was a much different culture than us? If yes, then how can we say other scriptures must be followed, since they too were in MUCH different times than ours?
3. Some other explanation.

The slaves in the Old Testament likely had better employment conditions than many employees in the West today? I'm not saying this is true for every case, but suggest it as it would be a possible answer to your question.

In my opinion, with the taxes we pay, most people are not much better off than the slaves in the bible. The difference is our taskmaster is a godless government.

 

[Off123123123]

Anthropology studies of the Ancient Near East explain a lot of this.

Women were about a half step above property at the time. A groom would "buy" his wife by paying a hefty "bride price".
In the Ketubah (marriage contract) the husband was required to have intimate relations with his wife a certain number of times each week. Less if he had a physically demanding job but more if it was more administrative in nature.

Women needed children as their retirement plan. They often sought to get pregnant by anyone they could. Starvation in old age is not pretty. Food was money and money was food. There were no such things as government social security or welfare.

And the meaning of the word "slave" was somewhat fluid and could be what we would call a "hired hand" who worked for low wages but got room and board as part of his/her wages.

It was a commodity based economy. Meaning printed and coined money was rare. You could pay debts in grain, oil, spices or wine.

A followup question. If their times were so different than ours, how can we trust any of the rules for living can apply to us and aren’t outdated too?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

1. Say some form of, “Well we have to trust God is just and right.” ?
2, Say this was a much different culture than us? If yes, then how can we say other scriptures must be followed, since they too were in MUCH different times than ours?
3. Some other explanation.

Ex 21:7 "Now if a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

Deut 20: 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the animals, and everything that is in the city, all of its spoils, you shall take as plunder for yourself

Numbers 31: 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 However, all the girls who have not known a man intimately, keep alive for yourselves.

Lev 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

Lev 22:11 But if a priest buys a slave as his property with his money, that person may eat of it,

Slavery was a huge part of the world at the time the scriptures were written it was a reality of thier world on a daily basis of course they are instructed on how to deal with it as slaves or free men .

The Roman Empire was a brutal world slavery as terrible as it is was commonplace then and everyone knew and understood that many were enslaved as they had always been after ears and conquering empires began to rule the earth

from babylon to media Persia to Greece up to the Roman Empire even Messi g up to today powerful nations still rule things through terribke violence and threats of complete nuclear annihilation but we just pretend to be more civilized than they were and more pc .

And more “ morally superior “ the scriptire deals with practical life , some things like slavery , while not prevelant in todays western world or society and while all of us today recognize it as an injustice and an evil .

It has always been part of the world since wars and nations and fighting over land and territory and all of that partly the Bible is just practical instruction of how to deal with things that we face

 

[Off123123123]

Slavery was a huge part of the world at the time the scriptures were written it was a reality of thier world on a daily basis of course they are instructed on how to deal with it as slaves or free men .

The Roman Empire was a brutal world slavery as terrible as it is was commonplace then and everyone knew and understood that many were enslaved as they had always been after ears and conquering empires began to rule the earth

from babylon to media Persia to Greece up to the Roman Empire even Messi g up to today powerful nations still rule things through terribke violence and threats of complete nuclear annihilation but we just pretend to be more civilized than they were and more pc .

And more “ morally superior “ the scriptire deals with practical life , some things like slavery , while not prevelant in todays western world or society and while all of us today recognize it as an injustice and an evil .

It has always been part of the world since wars and nations and fighting over land and territory and all of that partly the Bible is just practical instruction of how to deal with things that we face

I hear that argument often, but there were many many wrongs done in the world at that time too, and God spoke against them..Sooooo

I don’t think the reason that slavery was the order of the day holds up. Many wrongs were the order of the day, and God clearly said…STOP IT!

 

[JohnDB]

A followup question. If their times were so different than ours, how can we trust any of the rules for living can apply to us and aren’t outdated too?

Because the rules are still applicable.

The truth is timeless. Customs change, people really haven't.

Let's put it this way....
Most people believe that way back in 1890 people were of much higher moral character. That things were spiritually so much better.
The truth is so much different than that. The very reasons why the South tried to ceceed from the Union were busy being realized by carpetbaggers and complete financial ruin of the Southern States was underway. The feelings of animosity were through the roof from losing the Civil war and soon the First World War would start....with even more inhumane treatment of people. Sure Black slaves had been freed but segregation, prejudice, and animosity was over the top.

 

[Moses_Young]

A followup question. If their times were so different than ours, how can we trust any of the rules for living can apply to us and aren’t outdated too?

Which "rules for living" were you referring to?

Mark 12:29-31
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

 

[Off123123123]

Because the rules are still applicable.

The truth is timeless. Customs change, people really haven't.

Let's put it this way....
Most people believe that way back in 1890 people were of much higher moral character. That things were spiritually so much better.
The truth is so much different than that. The very reasons why the South tried to ceceed from the Union were busy being realized by carpetbaggers and complete financial ruin of the Southern States was underway. The feelings of animosity were through the roof from losing the Civil war and soon the First World War would start....with even more inhumane treatment of people. Sure Black slaves had been freed but segregation, prejudice, and animosity was over the top.

But if slavery and selling daughters isn’t clearly spoken against, then in reality, we could do that too still, since rules don’t change.

 

[Off123123123]

Which "rules for living" were you referring to?

Mark 12:29-31
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Any of them. They’re all in the same book. How do we know we can trust some, if others are apparently obsolete because of historical and cultural distance.

 

[Off123123123]

Which "rules for living" were you referring to?

Mark 12:29-31
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I mean we’re basically saying, that we take our morality from a book that also gives instructions on how to sell your daughter, bash a babies head against the rock, take virgins as plunder of war.
How can any of it have credibility when it’s all from the same book?

 

[JohnDB]

But if slavery and selling daughters isn’t clearly spoken against, then in reality, we could do that too still, since rules don’t change.

Paying a bride price and a father giving a dowry is still practiced to this day. Just because you live in a culture it doesn't happen inside of doesn't mean that God's word is not true or still effectual.

Besides....
You were quoting from the Old Testament and specifically the Torah/Law.

The Torah has been fulfilled.

There is now a New Covenant.
People need jobs, they need spouses, they need rules to follow and outline specific behaviors that meet expectations.

Inside of a marriage there used to be a Ketubah...which outlined specifically what the bride was to do as well as the groom. Often prepared by a scribe/expert in the Law/grammiton and signed off by a levite Priest or Rabbi.

So...exactly what is it that fascinates you about this subject? Most of this is about treating others with dignity and respect and a bit about foreshadowing of the Coming Messiah and what true Holiness is about.

But being 5,700 years after it was written on another continent a LOT of the things written have a knack for being confusing in today's Western society.

 

[Off123123123]

But being 5,700 years after it was written on another continent a LOT of the things written have a knack for being confusing in today's Western society.

So why are we turning to a book for morals that was written so long ago the stuff is confusing for us today? You’re trying to have it both ways. You want it to be this source of eternal standards for us today, but then when certain things are called out, you say well, that happened a long time ago, it’s confusing to us.

 

[Eli1]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

1. Say some form of, “Well we have to trust God is just and right.” ?
2, Say this was a much different culture than us? If yes, then how can we say other scriptures must be followed, since they too were in MUCH different times than ours?
3. Some other explanation.

Ex 21:7 "Now if a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do.

Deut 20: 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 However, the women, the children, the animals, and everything that is in the city, all of its spoils, you shall take as plunder for yourself

Numbers 31: 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 However, all the girls who have not known a man intimately, keep alive for yourselves.

Lev 25:44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have-you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you.

Lev 22:11 But if a priest buys a slave as his property with his money, that person may eat of it,

You're asking some hard questions here. Questions which require hard and maybe shocking answers for which some people may not like, including the owner of the site.
But in real life, i have been asked these hard questions and high-level these include some of the following core concepts:

1. Do you think the Bible fell from the sky or was it written by inspired men who had visions and miracles and tried to use limited vocabulary to put them into paper?
2. How do you call God? Do you call him a Loving God, a Merciful God or something else? Because God did some interesting things in the Old Testament.
3. What is the point of all the violence in the OT and the Kings, Generals and betrayal? Is it someone's life story to glorify a nation or is it prophetic and quoted by Jesus Christ?

So, it depends on how you want to go in the discussion and where it is allowed.

For me, the most difficult question is the question of suffering. I know the answer Biblically, but it's very difficult to express into language when discussing with ... say .. an atheist. The atheist usually has the upper hand in the discussion of suffering ... in the eyes of the world.
Then in the end you're left with making a faith-based choice because a LOT of things cannot be solved logically. And the main anchor for the choice is none other than Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[JohnDB]

So why are we turning to a book for morals that was written so long ago the stuff is confusing for us today? You’re trying to have it both ways. You want it to be this source of eternal standards for us today, but then when certain things are called out, you say well, that happened a long time ago, it’s confusing to us.

Because the way they are said is confusing...not what was intended. What's intended by this old book is of extreme importance.

 

[Nehemiah6]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

God may not have "opposed" slavery, but He made sure that slaves were treated properly. For Hebrews and Israelites, there were many injunctions, and at the end of seven years, they were to be released with no further obligations. Also, the cultures of those day treated slaves as servants, and were not slave drivers. Some even married their slaves and made them concubines.

Then we have the case of Onesimus whose owner was Philemon (epistle to Philemon). Both owner and master were Christians, so Paul told Philemon to receive him as a brother (and no doubt Philemon did)

As to slaves in the southern United States in more recent times, you can thank the African chiefs for selling their own people to Arab slave merchants, who then sold them to plantation owners. The plantation owners were not necessarily genuine Christians but part of a Western Christian culture. They had seen no injunction against slavery in the Bible. Therefore even a Christian like George Washington had no problem in owning slaves and treating them more or less as servants.

Had cooler heads prevailed in the 19th century there need not have been a Civil War to stop slavery. But guess what? The freed slaves then turned around and "enslaved" themselves to the Democratic Party, when it was actually Democrats who practiced slavery. Today Blacks are finally waking up to the fact that the Democrats do not give a hoot about them. Obama did nothing for them and Biden allowed millions of foreign invaders to destroy the prospects of Blacks in America, since these migrants get everything free and are also free to commit heinous crimes and not be held accountable. Then Biden put DEI into practice so that Black Racism could prevail without any opposition.

 

[p_rehbein]

I mean we’re basically saying, that we take our morality from a book that also gives instructions on how to sell your daughter, bash a babies head against the rock, take virgins as plunder of war.
How can any of it have credibility when it’s all from the same book?

Can't help but notice that you offer no opinion of your own. Hmm...

IMO, the difference between then and today is the difference between the 1st Covenant and the New Covenant which we live under today. Yes, they are both from the same Book (Holy Bibe), but they are far different are they not? Do you understand the difference between the two?

What you might look for is how the Apostle Paul saw such as this, and how God sees it.

Galatians, Chapter 3:

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

BTW: If all you are going to do is play the "question game," then folks are gonna tire quickly of your lack of understanding and lack of personal input. I already have. Go in peace.

 

[presidente]

The Bible does not teach that it is inherently sinful to own a slave. The only verses that might indicate otherwise aee verses about giving up all one's possessions to follow Christ.

I have heard Christians call slavery a sin. It bothers me that they get their definition of sin from contemporary social mores and not scripture.

Slavery was not race based in Biblical times.

This isn't a topic I would open with sharing my faith or want to preach on at the local Second Baptist church or COGIC