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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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last but trust me not the lest. I would love to see your take on just one passage. Keep in mind you are to use the full passage, explain it word by word.

Gal 3:21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
the promise of Life is not by the Law.
righteousness is not by the Law.

life and righteousness are therefore by something else - by faith in Christ.

by the Law is knowledge of sin: by the Law is condemnation. by the Law every mouth that would boast of itself is stopped and all the world is constrained under sin: the power of sin is the Law.

salvation, righteousness and life are by faith in Christ, and in Him, through dying in Him and with Him, the Christian is removed from the jurisdiction of the Law, taken out of condemnation and into life.

by the death of Christ and my death in Him the power of sin is broken; i am not under the Law and will not be judged by it having died as far as it is concerned, so that i can be and am betrothed to a new Husband, to Christ Himself.

this is not "playing both sides of the fence" - that false accusation is pure nonsense.
it's the gospel.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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false.

Hebrews 8:13 is not in conflict with James 2:10 or Matthew 5:18.

by saying your earthly body is wearing out but not fully passed away it does not mean that you have missing arms or legs.

your accusations against me are pure nonsense.
Yet saying that not all the law has past away, is saying that some has. Yet if you will look back you will find that you also said, the law isn't parts that can be removed. So spin it how ever you wish, truth is truth.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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the promise of Life is not by the Law.
righteousness is not by the Law.

life and righteousness are therefore by something else - by faith in Christ.

by the Law is knowledge of sin: by the Law is condemnation. by the Law every mouth that would boast of itself is stopped and all the world is constrained under sin: the power of sin is the Law.

salvation, righteousness and life are by faith in Christ, and in Him, through dying in Him and with Him, the Christian is removed from the jurisdiction of the Law, taken out of condemnation and into life.

by the death of Christ and my death in Him the power of sin is broken; i am not under the Law and will not be judged by it having died as far as it is concerned, so that i can be and am betrothed to a new Husband, to Christ Himself.

this is not "playing both sides of the fence" - that false accusation is pure nonsense.
it's the gospel.
ONE MORE TIME I already said the law has no power to bring life, it doesn't make us sin, and it sure has no pwoer to forgive. You wonder why I say you don't read what I say, thats why. If you did we wouldn't be talking in circles.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,975
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Yet saying that not all the law has past away, is saying that some has. Yet if you will look back you will find that you also said, the law isn't parts that can be removed. So spin it how ever you wish, truth is truth.
i never said "not all the law is passed away"

i said Hebrews 8 proves the Law had not yet passed away by the 60`s AD.

You're being quite petty on this.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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ONE MORE TIME I already said the law has no power to bring life, it doesn't make us sin, and it sure has no pwoer to forgive. You wonder why I say you don't read what I say, thats why. If you did we wouldn't be talking in circles.
You begged me to comment on the verse.

so i did.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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i never said "not all the law is passed away"

i said Hebrews 8 proves the Law had not yet passed away by the 60`s AD.

You're being quite petty on this.
Last time I am going to post your words n that. Look closely, you will see a person that is wishing to work both sides of the fence.
In post #296 page 15 you said.
"The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10"Then in post #311 you said. "from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60"
If that isn't working both sides of the fence, then please make to 2 fit together in a way that is satisfactory. As you say the law is one, and not jots and tittles to be deleted, yet as you made clear some of it has passed away, makes it clear that you really don't understand what you say, or you simply wish to keep drama going anyway you can.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Last time I am going to post your words n that. Look closely, you will see a person that is wishing to work both sides of the fence.
In post #296 page 15 you said.
"The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10"Then in post #311 you said. "from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60"
If that isn't working both sides of the fence, then please make to 2 fit together in a way that is satisfactory. As you say the law is one, and not jots and tittles to be deleted, yet as you made clear some of it has passed away, makes it clear that you really don't understand what you say, or you simply wish to keep drama going anyway you can.

as i have explained a dozen times now, Hebrews 8 does not contradict James 2 nor Matthew 5.

by AD 60 the Law of the Sinai covenant with tge Hebrew people was described as "obsolete and ready to pass away" - God's words, not mine. i put this because some say the Law was completely removed at the cross. I don't agree with that: the Law still stands to condemn all. who put themselves under it, like you for example.

clearly i do not believe the Law can be selectively deleted; it is one Law. i am the one who emphasized this. i am the one who has been pointing out that various parts of the Law are impossible to keep without a physical temple and that they are not removed just because no physical temple exists.

so clearly you are willfully, spitefully misinterpreting me in a continuously slanderous way while you know full well that what you are accusing me of is ridiculous and utterly false.

the obvious question then is why are you doing this?

and i think it's equally obvious that you are acting in this way because of your false doctrine that Christians are under the Law of Moses and condemned by the Law of Moses - which i have strongly opposed, so you wish to find a reason to dismiss me, and to change the conversation away from those facts.


You will reply "as you wish" which we all know means, you cannot answer.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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as i have explained a dozen times now, Hebrews 8 does not contradict James 2 nor Matthew 5.

by AD 60 the Law of the Sinai covenant with tge Hebrew people was described as "obsolete and ready to pass away" - God's words, not mine. i put this because some say the Law was completely removed at the cross. I don't agree with that: the Law still stands to condemn all. who put themselves under it, like you for example.

clearly i do not believe the Law can be selectively deleted; it is one Law. i am the one who emphasized this. i am the one who has been pointing out that various parts of the Law are impossible to keep without a physical temple and that they are not removed just because no physical temple exists.

so clearly you are willfully, spitefully misinterpreting me in a continuously slanderous way while you know full well that what you are accusing me of is ridiculous and utterly false.

the obvious question then is why are you doing this?

and i think it's equally obvious that you are acting in this way because of your false doctrine that Christians are under the Law of Moses and condemned by the Law of Moses - which i have strongly opposed, so you wish to find a reason to dismiss me, and to change the conversation away from those facts.


You will reply "as you wish" which we all know means, you cannot answer.
Funny how you get when you wish others to think your the poor helpless victim. Yet you wast no time in doing your best to lay faults claims against others. As for my claim of you working both sides of the fence, it facts are placed before you. You say that not all of the law has been partly removed. How is that clear? "the Law wasn't completely passed away yet"
So you are now free to to say anything you wish about me. Yet your words do stand as witness against you.
Oh almost forgot. AS YOU WISH.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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As for my claim of you working both sides of the fence, it facts are placed before you. You say that not all of the law has been partly removed. How is that clear? "the Law wasn't completely passed away yet"
i never said that any of tge Law was partly removed. in fact I said it is impossible to remove part of the law, only to remove all of it.

i said that Hebrews 8:13 makes it clear the Law had not completely passed away by the time it was written. Hebrews says it is "growing old" and "vanishing" and "already obsolete"

i also, citing scripture, said the Law cannot be partially deleted. it is one Law.

just because you are incapable of understanding or accepting what the two scriptures i put say does not mean i am contradicting myself by quoting both of them.

so if you could quit willfully lying about me that'd be great.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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IOW you cannot reply to the point, so you resort to continually lying about what i have said.

i have explained 15 times that you are completely misrepresenting my statements.

since you believe yourself to be under the Law, and there is no more sacrifice for sin, may i ask how you expect to be forgiven for your continual, unrepentant transgression of bearing false witness?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Off Script
Rom 8:4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So from this passage it has been said that man can walk a sin free life. All it takes is for us to stop chasing the things of this earth. However, as we know man kind is weak, and the flesh does take occasion to lead us a stray, we must keep our minds clear, and focused. We all find a time when get it right and understand how good it feels to know we have. Just as we all know that when we get it wrong, it eats away at us. At lest until we seek forgiveness.
Rom 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
As many wish to say that the law of the Spirit has removed the law of HaShem, as given at Sinai, yet never consider any other understanding. So what if the Law of Spirit is the Torah being properly applied in the lives of Believers? Though as we know, NOT ONE person can say they hold all the truth of the word, we must then seek to find that Truth, and forget what man may say or think.
Also as we will see with this understanding we maintain the context of what we will find in chapters 3 and 7. All while removing what some see as antisemitic. When one wishes to remove Torah, they seem to always put the Jewish people in a bad light. At times even calling them evil, lost, or disgusting. Some of this can be seen on full display in this thread.
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
As we can see here, Paul understands, and tries to inform us that there 2 laws at play here. One the law of HaShem, and the other the law of sin. Although some may say that the Law of the HaShem, (i.e. the Torah) has no place in our life as believers, Paul doesn't seem to agree.
Rom 7:22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Now we all know or should that the inword man is that part of us that is filled with the Spirit of HaShem. HaShem has always found joy when we walk after His ways, and reject the worldly ways. As was seen in His prase of Abarham, who walked in His laws.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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IOW you cannot reply to the point, so you resort to continually lying about what i have said.

i have explained 15 times that you are completely misrepresenting my statements.

since you believe yourself to be under the Law, and there is no more sacrifice for sin, may i ask how you expect to be forgiven for your continual, unrepentant transgression of bearing false witness?
Already told you, Yet you seem to wish make a claim that has no basses in fact. Once again I follow His laws not be saved, rather because I am saved. Yeshua said many times, "If you love me, keep my commandments. As I know he gave His life freely that I may walk in a new life, I honor Him by doing as He has said.
Now let me play the victim card. Although it doesn't play well unless I am you. Your always trying to say I don't have faith, and that I can't be foregiven for my sin, even though I said hunders of times your wrong. So please don't me cry any more, I just can't do it.
Try really reading my post of a change, I think you see that you are 100% wrong in your condemnation of my faith. Oh maybe not, after all it isn't your faith it's mine. That means it has to be wrong.
So you know, I am done with you, so when I don't reply to you after this, it isn't that I don't have an answer, it is that I am done with you. Kicking the dust from my feet if you wish.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Off script
This is going to be a bit different. As I left off with Rom.7:22, I think a full over view of this chapter is in order. 1-6 holds the key to understanding this. Now keep in mind that as long as one is above ground, talks, has breath, and a heart beat, they are living. Though some would wish to say this is wrong, please ask any doctor, they will say that person is a live.
As this chapter is dealing with literal life, and death, we must take it as such. Paul when he said the husbandmen dies, was not speaking of rebirth. Yeshua made it clear, we must be reborn, if we wish to enter into life. Though one can use this passage to muddy the water, as has been seen in this thread. That is taking the whole passage out of it's true context.
7-12 Here find Paul trying to explain that the Law shows us our sin. Though some read this to say that the Law makes us sin, Paul doesn't seem to agree. However he does seem to understand that some may think the Law makes us sin. Yet for him to really believe this, he would never say the Law is Holy. as we know sin not holy, and anything holy doesn't create sin.
Though some wish to think that the Law is sin, or at lest created sin, Paul doesn't agree. As we see in 8, Paul seems to say that sin used the law to force sin on us, yet in the following passages, we find that Satan, (sin), uses the law to bring thoughts that are sinful. In one it may be a need to have something they want, in another it may be pride, the idea that they are right, and everyone else is wrong. Unless you agree with them. It isn't often that we find someone that both willing to say they can be wrong, and able to back that with action, once they are shown the area in their thinking.
More to follow.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Rom.7:13-20
As we can see Paul is not speaking of a law that has turned evil on us. Satan however has always been against anything Holy. It was from this chapter that I found sin to be a metaphor for Satan. After all sin is his field of expertise is it not? Yet if Paul seen the law as sinful why would ask if that which is good be made death?
As we should see here, the Law is a spiritual thing. Oh sure it holds with in it many physical acts, that are there to help us see it at work. Yet those same acts help to remind us of it's truth. A sacrifice reminds of us our sin, and the cost of said sin.
Rom 6:23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Has there ever been anything that points to this than the sacrificial system? When one places their hand on the head of a lamb, cut's the poor things throat, and sees the blood pored out, death becomes a reality. Knowing that this little creature has given it's life to cover your sin, should change the hearts of them that undertake this action.
When one reads this in the K.J.V. it can become a bit confusing. As Paul seems to trying to understand his own actions. So it is that when we study, we use many versions, in fact we use as many as 17. In doing so we find things that don't seem to line up. Does this mean one is evil, and the other good? Not at all, it is nothing more than ones way of seeing the same thing. Oddly it was with this form of sudy that we came to understand, when a disagreement is formed, there is most likly fault on both sides. Oh I know, some of us are just so great we can never be wrong, yet more often than not, we as humans get it wrong. Even the best of us must admit we don't know everything. When one is unwilling to admit this, they show just how wrong they can be. When they push that on others, yet wish to make sure everyone knows just how wrong the other is, then they show that sin has a hold on them. Even if they don't like the idea. After all pride is in the top 7 sins.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Though some wish to think that the Law is sin, or at lest created sin...
Nobody believes this nonsense. The Law EXPOSES sin, and every genuine Christian understands this. But your total focus on the Law is also wrong. You do not focus on the Gospel.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Nobody believes this nonsense. The Law EXPOSES sin, and every genuine Christian understands this. But your total focus on the Law is also wrong. You do not focus on the Gospel.
I could say you don't focus on the law enough. I can also say that sense gospel means truth, I do focus on it. If you wish to have nothing to do with getting to understand my point of view, then please walk away, it won't bother me, and it may help with others getting a chance to look at something they may never have considered. However, as I see the law as something that Yeshua we MUST follow, then placing it as I do, seems to fitting.
 

justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
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I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?
What Jesus would want is for Christians to pray together for common needs more than debating on who is right. Luke Chapter 9 verses 49 - 50. Yet what I have seen in CC is the exact opposite. Everyone wants to be right. I would rather share my Christian love and faith and fellowship with fellow Christians. Anyway that is IMO. Not worth hassling and biting over what you know is true. You don't have to prove it to someone else or anyone else. Peace
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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I could say you don't focus on the law enough.
You seem to be forgetting something. It is God and Christ who have set aside the Law so that salvation would be by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

So kindly tells us what Christ accomplished through His sufferings, His death, His burial, His resurrection, and His exaltation.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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You seem to be forgetting something. It is God and Christ who have set aside the Law so that salvation would be by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption.

So kindly tells us what Christ accomplished through His sufferings, His death, His burial, His resurrection, and His exaltation.
He made it so that sin was washed away not just covered. As to the law being set asaid, that is not what Yeshua told us. In Mat.5:17-18 He made it clear that the law would in way be changed, removed, or put on hold. As it stands you have said nothing that will ever change this. The truth of salvation, Yeshua, his sacrifice, and how one should walk with HaShem is found in the Torah, and then expanded on through out the Tanakh.
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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What Jesus would want is for Christians to pray together for common needs more than debating on who is right. Luke Chapter 9 verses 49 - 50. Yet what I have seen in CC is the exact opposite. Everyone wants to be right. I would rather share my Christian love and faith and fellowship with fellow Christians. Anyway that is IMO. Not worth hassling and biting over what you know is true. You don't have to prove it to someone else or anyone else. Peace
Yet as you point out, it seems to be the them on here. You may see what I do as trying to make my understanding seem more ture than others. However as I make clear I know I don't hold all the answers. Yet I am also just as sure that not one person on this earth does.
however if working to shine a light on the truth found in the Word, is wrong, then I don't want to be right. We are to always stand up, and let the Truth be known, pointing to the Word and it truly tells us isn't me say I am right your wrong so there. It is simply working to let the light of truth be seen.