Because focusing on the Law keeps up the dissension and strife.
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. (2 Tim 2:16)
How can one learn?
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But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. (2 Tim 2:16)
The law is important or it wouldn't have been imprinted upon our hearts. But Christianity isn't about knowing the Law, but about knowing God. The law is but one of many means God employs to this end. But for some it does seem to become the goal instead of the way. The law ends up becoming an idol and a means of relating to God. It's only a matter of time before someone like this replaces grace with performance as a means of pleasing God. The ramifications of this go far beyond dissension. They are eternal.
the fact that the requirements of physical circumcision for those under the Law are not the same as the requirements for those in Christ doesn't mean that the Law has changed.
it means Christians aren't under the Law.
Galatians does not contradict Matthew 5.
the fact that the old Covenant with Israel and its law are made obsolete, wax old and are ready to vanish (Hebrews 8:13) does not mean the Law has changed.
it means Christians are not under the Law.
Hebrews does not contradict Matthew 5.
it is certainly a point. it is the same God Who gave Israel a law on Sinai that gave us an entirely different covenant through His own blood.
by saying "you have heard it said.. but I say unto you" Jesus asserted Himself as THE Lawgiver. the One who has authority to say this is your law and this is not your law.
giving us a different law He doesnt mean He changed the old Law.
it means the Christian isn't under the Law of Moses.
Matthew 5 does not contradict itself.
i rather think that if we do not see pictures and testimony of Christ in the Law, but see it as "do and do not" then we are not understanding what we are reading.
If I wished to dismiss you, trust me you would know it. I would say it flat out, just I called you on trying to work both sides of the fence.
However, As I have said you have lost any creditably in my mind. So over look that I may not reply to you at times.
Well when Yeshua tells us,
Jhn 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Is it not worth the time to learn what He is talking of? Besides if you will look back, you will soon see it wasn't the intent of this threat to follow this line of thinking. As for me, if up to everyone to find their own path to salvation. Just keep in mind that we must use every word to seek that out. As we should know Satan knows the scripture better than any of us, and he has twisted it in a way that he pulled off the greatest of all. He has lead many to think he isn't real, and others to think that sin is no longer a threat to us. After all, when the word tells us
1Jo 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
would we not be wise to fully understand His Law?
The DNA thing is not literal.
And if one can't see the Law as spiritual they have missed the whole point. When one tries to place a part of the law on others that are not intender for the peoples, they show a lack of understanding, and/or a wish to argue points that have no real bearing.
If anyone here thinks I have over looked Yeshua, they need to read the full threat, Then if you think I teach against Yeshua, you really have reason to be here. Unless you are just looking to create drama where their is no need. I know the voice of My King, and I listen closely to it. If He tells me to Keep His laws I do so. I see no reason to not follow after Him, no matter where that may lead me.
I appreciate you answering. You didn't answer my first question. And I agree with your premise, just not how to perform it. In other words, if the goal is to be obedient, one should do the things that foster obedience. Contrary to what most people think, that doesn't happen by trying to keep the law, but comes as a result of Christ living in us. Since applying ourselves to keeping the law is doomed to failure, we ought actually to do the thing Jesus told us will help...seeking first His kingdom and His righteousness. We find His righteousness in Him and we have Him working in us as we walk in the Spirit.
Focusing on the law will result in sin. Focusing on Christ results in obedience.
We do see it as spiritual. That's why we see the need to walk in the Spirit to actually produce obedience.
Off script
As any reading this threat may have noticed, anytime the Law is brought up, even if is by them, the one that holds to the Law being valid is always the one under attack. The use of double, belittlement, and other tatics are always implied as can be seen in this thread. passage is set against passage, in ways that that will later be used by them on the attack to try and show how right they are, and how silly it is to of the one being attacked to place them in context with the Whole of the Word.
The attacker will muddy the water as best they can, by saying something, then try to cover that by trying to look like the other just misunderstands.
What I do find of interst, is that if one looks back over all my threads, the same thing keeps coming up. So I have asked myself, WHY? is it to make ones self look impotent, or all knowing? Not sure, but a close friend of mine asked me this. Do you not think that they are only wanting to shut down the truth being told? So here is why I am unafrade of accusations that have no bases in fact. I know the truth, HaShem knows the truth, and that is all I really care about.
As I said, this off script post is about the Law. As I said in reply just above, it is worth knowing weather one should walk in the Law as best they can. Not one of us can say we don't sin, or that we are more righteous than any other. When one wishs to try and show how much they know, yet falls to ever consider the truth that must stand if our salvation is to assured, they mislead others.
Rom 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Yet many wish to try and say Paul teaches that the law has no hold on us. So we are now going to work from Rev. back to Gen. and see what we find. Please keep in mind that Commandments, Law, and Torah are one in the same.
Rev 22:14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
As we can see, the Word doesn't say, any that think they are free of the Law can enter in, it is clear that to enter in one must do, follow, ore keep His Law to enter in. This will be the theam we follow, and yes we will look at what Paul tells us, as to not being under the law. After all, if we don't keep that in context with Paul tells us the Law is good, Holly, and just, or When Yeshua tells us the law will not pass in even the smallest of points until Heaven and earth passaway. Then it becomes clear that the truth of the Word is being dismissed.
Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So how does this fit with any thing Paul said?
Jas 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Well it seems I have my work cut out for me. After all, if someone is really reading this, there will be many question concerning what was just placed before them. So lets keep going, maybe we can answer then before they get asked.
Rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
As we can see, Satan doesn't like those of us that do our best to keep the laws of HaShem. yse I know doing ones best isn't really keeping them in the minds of some on here. That is why I leave any judgment of my words, action, and thoughts to HaShem. He knows we are sinful by nature,
Gen 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Give thanks now for the sacrifice that can wash us clean. however always remember to seek forgiveness when we do sin. Then try to do better.
2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So what laws were heard from the begging? The Torah silly.
Gen 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Well that sounds a lot like Abraham know the Torah. As I once said, and have stood by for some time, the law was known before Sinai. After all, if HaShem brought judgment on anyone that didn't know they were doing wrong, He simply couldn't be justified in His actions. So Yes Cain murder was sin. how? Well the only way he could have, is if HaShem had given him the law. Just as Sodom knew they were sinful. Now I can go with that, yet see no need. As we know the Word doesn't record every word, action, or thought ever given by HaShem. So we must use the whole of the Word to determine why HaShem judged a people before Sinai. Common sense helps a lot as well.
As any reading this threat may have noticed, anytime the Law is brought up, even if is by them, the one that holds to the Law being valid is always the one under attack. The use of double, belittlement, and other tatics are always implied as can be seen in this thread. passage is set against passage, in ways that that will later be used by them on the attack to try and show how right they are, and how silly it is to of the one being attacked to place them in context with the Whole of the Word.
The attacker will muddy the water as best they can, by saying something, then try to cover that by trying to look like the other just misunderstands.
What I do find of interst, is that if one looks back over all my threads, the same thing keeps coming up. So I have asked myself, WHY? is it to make ones self look impotent, or all knowing? Not sure, but a close friend of mine asked me this. Do you not think that they are only wanting to shut down the truth being told? So here is why I am unafrade of accusations that have no bases in fact. I know the truth, HaShem knows the truth, and that is all I really care about.
As I said, this off script post is about the Law. As I said in reply just above, it is worth knowing weather one should walk in the Law as best they can. Not one of us can say we don't sin, or that we are more righteous than any other. When one wishs to try and show how much they know, yet falls to ever consider the truth that must stand if our salvation is to assured, they mislead others.
Rom 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Yet many wish to try and say Paul teaches that the law has no hold on us. So we are now going to work from Rev. back to Gen. and see what we find. Please keep in mind that Commandments, Law, and Torah are one in the same.
Rev 22:14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
As we can see, the Word doesn't say, any that think they are free of the Law can enter in, it is clear that to enter in one must do, follow, ore keep His Law to enter in. This will be the theam we follow, and yes we will look at what Paul tells us, as to not being under the law. After all, if we don't keep that in context with Paul tells us the Law is good, Holly, and just, or When Yeshua tells us the law will not pass in even the smallest of points until Heaven and earth passaway. Then it becomes clear that the truth of the Word is being dismissed.
Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So how does this fit with any thing Paul said?
Jas 2:24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Rom 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Well it seems I have my work cut out for me. After all, if someone is really reading this, there will be many question concerning what was just placed before them. So lets keep going, maybe we can answer then before they get asked.
Rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
As we can see, Satan doesn't like those of us that do our best to keep the laws of HaShem. yse I know doing ones best isn't really keeping them in the minds of some on here. That is why I leave any judgment of my words, action, and thoughts to HaShem. He knows we are sinful by nature,
Gen 6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Give thanks now for the sacrifice that can wash us clean. however always remember to seek forgiveness when we do sin. Then try to do better.
2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So what laws were heard from the begging? The Torah silly.
Gen 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Well that sounds a lot like Abraham know the Torah. As I once said, and have stood by for some time, the law was known before Sinai. After all, if HaShem brought judgment on anyone that didn't know they were doing wrong, He simply couldn't be justified in His actions. So Yes Cain murder was sin. how? Well the only way he could have, is if HaShem had given him the law. Just as Sodom knew they were sinful. Now I can go with that, yet see no need. As we know the Word doesn't record every word, action, or thought ever given by HaShem. So we must use the whole of the Word to determine why HaShem judged a people before Sinai. Common sense helps a lot as well.
1Jo 5:3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
One must now ask them self. Do we Love HaShem to walk after all that He said, or do we like the idea of a god that will punish any that walk after his teachings? We can't have it both ways.
1Jo 3:24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
Manny times one that is bold enough to say the Law is valid, and at work in the hearts of us that truly beleive are told they can't be saved by the law. That is true, however one can't be saved if they disregard them. As you can see, doing what He wants us to, is pleasing in His sight. From the start, He has made it clear that we must walk in faith, as Abraham did, and walk in all that He has given as His law, as Abraham did.
1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Before anyone goes thinking I used this as a way to accuse anyone, I am simply placeing before the Word. If it seems to step on your toes, you may need to look at where you stand.
1Th 4:2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
I often wonder if some do. After all, when we look the Wods of Yeshua, they up hold Troah. many times they give us a fuller understanding of things we may other wise misunderstand. When we get to His Words on the matter, we will see, not once does He teach in contrast to Torah.
Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
As promised, I am going shy away from passages that seem for many to say the Law has been removed. After all, if we foget that Yeshua said the Law wouldn't change, Mat.5:17-18 then we must seek a new understanding of this passage. If we don't, we stand in conflict with the truth the Word must uphold in, or be seen as nothing more the ravings of a mad man. So just what is it we are seeing here then?
Yeshua when He gave Himself as a sacrifice, willingly mind you. brought all of man kind under the same umbrella. In other words, when we turn our self over to Him, and walk in all that we are commanded, we place aside the envy, pride, resentment, and dislike of the customs of the Jewish people, or the gentile if your Jewish. If one takes a close look at history, they will find that in or around 350 A.D. when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome, the church went to work to place as much distance between them and Israel. Many still without knowing it, do the same today.
So how can look at this and see that it upholds Mat.5:17-18? When one looks at them self as the undeserving recipient of HaShem's love and grace, we can also see that He gave His life for everyone. Seeing this, we should them work to remove our dislike of others. After all enmity as used here, points not to a physical wall, that stands to separate our peoples, rather that wall we place in our hearts, by our own lack of understanding. There is no other way to become this one new person.
1Co 7:19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
As some wish to try and show the law has been removed with this passage, let's look at it another way for once. As I have said many times, physical circumcision is a mark of the covenant made with Abraham. It holds no basses in salvation, as seen here. If we look at a passage that speaks to spiritual circumcision, we must understand the difference in the 2. As we will come to that in time,we will address that when we get there.
For now we feel it best to let this soak in a bit. So until my next off script, may the Spirit grant you understanding.
One must now ask them self. Do we Love HaShem to walk after all that He said, or do we like the idea of a god that will punish any that walk after his teachings? We can't have it both ways.
1Jo 3:24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
Manny times one that is bold enough to say the Law is valid, and at work in the hearts of us that truly beleive are told they can't be saved by the law. That is true, however one can't be saved if they disregard them. As you can see, doing what He wants us to, is pleasing in His sight. From the start, He has made it clear that we must walk in faith, as Abraham did, and walk in all that He has given as His law, as Abraham did.
1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Before anyone goes thinking I used this as a way to accuse anyone, I am simply placeing before the Word. If it seems to step on your toes, you may need to look at where you stand.
1Th 4:2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
I often wonder if some do. After all, when we look the Wods of Yeshua, they up hold Troah. many times they give us a fuller understanding of things we may other wise misunderstand. When we get to His Words on the matter, we will see, not once does He teach in contrast to Torah.
Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
As promised, I am going shy away from passages that seem for many to say the Law has been removed. After all, if we foget that Yeshua said the Law wouldn't change, Mat.5:17-18 then we must seek a new understanding of this passage. If we don't, we stand in conflict with the truth the Word must uphold in, or be seen as nothing more the ravings of a mad man. So just what is it we are seeing here then?
Yeshua when He gave Himself as a sacrifice, willingly mind you. brought all of man kind under the same umbrella. In other words, when we turn our self over to Him, and walk in all that we are commanded, we place aside the envy, pride, resentment, and dislike of the customs of the Jewish people, or the gentile if your Jewish. If one takes a close look at history, they will find that in or around 350 A.D. when Constantine made Christianity the state religion of Rome, the church went to work to place as much distance between them and Israel. Many still without knowing it, do the same today.
So how can look at this and see that it upholds Mat.5:17-18? When one looks at them self as the undeserving recipient of HaShem's love and grace, we can also see that He gave His life for everyone. Seeing this, we should them work to remove our dislike of others. After all enmity as used here, points not to a physical wall, that stands to separate our peoples, rather that wall we place in our hearts, by our own lack of understanding. There is no other way to become this one new person.
1Co 7:19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
As some wish to try and show the law has been removed with this passage, let's look at it another way for once. As I have said many times, physical circumcision is a mark of the covenant made with Abraham. It holds no basses in salvation, as seen here. If we look at a passage that speaks to spiritual circumcision, we must understand the difference in the 2. As we will come to that in time,we will address that when we get there.
For now we feel it best to let this soak in a bit. So until my next off script, may the Spirit grant you understanding.
May I see your badge officer? As it stands you seem to have understood what I said. yet even at that the word mistaken or mistakenly don't even show in what you quoted. The hay if you wish to be petty and pick on a person that has openly stated they are dyslexic, by all means go right ahead. Although as teh gramer police I would love to see your badge.
The law doesn't create sin, and it has no power to bring sin on use. As to doing what Yeshua told us, was it not Yeshua that said,
Jhn 14:15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Mat 19:17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
If Yeshua placed a premium on the Law, should we not also?