He's dead, you understand that right? But ok, you detailed the thread. You have everyone's attention. Now, lead the thread from here. What do you want to talk about next? Everyone's looking at you, you got the attention you were seeking. I'll go find where the man's last living relative is and ask them if he was an atheist preacher for you and get back to you with the info. Until then, let's talk about you and what you want to talk about. I hereby rename this thread "What Student of the Word Thinks "! Now take the thread and share your wisdom. You wanted the spotlight, you got it. We'll all wait to see what you have to say next.
How Assured are You ?? (of your salvation)
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He's dead, you understand that right? But ok, you detailed the thread. You have everyone's attention. Now, lead the thread from here. What do you want to talk about next? Everyone's looking at you, you got the attention you were seeking. I'll go find where the man's last living relative is and ask them if he was an atheist preacher for you and get back to you with the info. Until then, let's talk about you and what you want to talk about. I hereby rename this thread "What Student of the Word Thinks "! Now take the thread and share your wisdom. You wanted the spotlight, you got it. We'll all wait to see what you have to say next.
I find this story beautiful but need to point out some important context. The minister in question was John Harper, and Although the broad strokes of this account match historical records, some details have likely been embellished over time (as often happens with dramatic historical events).
What's particularly interesting from a psychological perspective is how this story captures the phenomenon of "crisis faith" - where extreme circumstances can either strengthen or challenge one's religious convictions. Harper's reported behavior aligns with what we often see in deeply faithful individuals during disasters: their beliefs become a source of remarkable calm and purpose rather than panic.
The question about salvation assurance actually touches on a complex theological and psychological intersection. From our Catholic perspective, Although we believe in salvation through Christ, we typically view it as a ongoing journey rather than a single moment of absolute certainty. Harper's Protestant background likely informed his more definitive view of salvation assurance.
That said, his reported actions - focusing on others' spiritual welfare even in his final moments - demonstrate an admirable depth of conviction, regardless of one's theological framework.
What's particularly interesting from a psychological perspective is how this story captures the phenomenon of "crisis faith" - where extreme circumstances can either strengthen or challenge one's religious convictions. Harper's reported behavior aligns with what we often see in deeply faithful individuals during disasters: their beliefs become a source of remarkable calm and purpose rather than panic.
The question about salvation assurance actually touches on a complex theological and psychological intersection. From our Catholic perspective, Although we believe in salvation through Christ, we typically view it as a ongoing journey rather than a single moment of absolute certainty. Harper's Protestant background likely informed his more definitive view of salvation assurance.
That said, his reported actions - focusing on others' spiritual welfare even in his final moments - demonstrate an admirable depth of conviction, regardless of one's theological framework.
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Now we play the Blame game -------I derailed the thread ?????????
NOW
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We're all listening to you now. You wanted to take over the thread, so here you go. We're all focused on you now. So go wherever you want to go with it. Congrats, all eyes on you.
NOW
View attachment 271812
We're all listening to you now. You wanted to take over the thread, so here you go. We're all focused on you now. So go wherever you want to go with it. Congrats, all eyes on you.
John 1:
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 6:
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 7:
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 9:
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 11:
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Acts 16:
31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Philippians 1:
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 Timothy 1:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1 John 3:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 5:
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
"Just saying..."
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 6:
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 7:
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 9:
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 11:
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Acts 16:
31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Philippians 1:
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 Timothy 1:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1 John 3:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 5:
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
"Just saying..."
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I've had 100% assurance since the hour I first believed many years ago.
Gal 4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
Col_1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Gal 4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
Col_1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
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John 1:
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 6:
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 7:
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 9:
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 11:
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Acts 16:
31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Philippians 1:
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 Timothy 1:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1 John 3:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 5:
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
"Just saying..."
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 6:
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 7:
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 9:
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 11:
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Acts 16:
31 And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Romans 4:
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Philippians 1:
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1 Timothy 1:
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1 John 3:
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 5:
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
"Just saying..."
I'd say that settles it.
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Let's see...
1) I have no idea if you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit or not.
Should I rant-and-rail about it for the next two or three pages?
Should I warn folks that you might be a wolf in sheep's clothing?
What would it accomplish except to make you angry or frustrated?
2) You need to learn how to "read" the intention in someone's statement and accept it at face value for the sake of the conversation.
The way I see it, the only [actual] "claim" that @ThereRoseaLamb has made is that she believes - probably based on her understanding of the story and the related history - that the preacher was born-again and preaching the gospel to folks as the ship sank.
None of us - including you - can say that we know with any absolute certainty what the preacher's "salvation status" was; however, what each of us can do is "judge for ourselves" whatever we think based on the available information. And, I will recommend that we not judge each other on what we think about it - it is not unreasonable to allow others their own opinion. I suggest that it is unwise to argue with someone over something that neither of you can possibly get any closer to the absolute truth of the matter in this life...
3) You are trying to make a point which - in the right context - would be okay; however, you are doing it for the wrong reason - no one here (other than you) is conducting themselves in a kind of conversation that would offer the proper context that would make it more legitimate.
It is usually better to be polite first and then offer some scriptural insight if it is warranted.
Have a conversation and not an argument.
1) I have no idea if you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit or not.
Should I rant-and-rail about it for the next two or three pages?
Should I warn folks that you might be a wolf in sheep's clothing?
What would it accomplish except to make you angry or frustrated?
2) You need to learn how to "read" the intention in someone's statement and accept it at face value for the sake of the conversation.
The way I see it, the only [actual] "claim" that @ThereRoseaLamb has made is that she believes - probably based on her understanding of the story and the related history - that the preacher was born-again and preaching the gospel to folks as the ship sank.
None of us - including you - can say that we know with any absolute certainty what the preacher's "salvation status" was; however, what each of us can do is "judge for ourselves" whatever we think based on the available information. And, I will recommend that we not judge each other on what we think about it - it is not unreasonable to allow others their own opinion. I suggest that it is unwise to argue with someone over something that neither of you can possibly get any closer to the absolute truth of the matter in this life...
3) You are trying to make a point which - in the right context - would be okay; however, you are doing it for the wrong reason - no one here (other than you) is conducting themselves in a kind of conversation that would offer the proper context that would make it more legitimate.
It is usually better to be polite first and then offer some scriptural insight if it is warranted.
Have a conversation and not an argument.
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Let's see...
1) I have no idea if you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit or not.
Should I rant-and-rail about it for the next two or three pages?
Should I warn folks that you might be a wolf in sheep's clothing?
What would it accomplish except to make you angry or frustrated?
2) You need to learn how to "read" the intention in someone's statement and accept it at face value for the sake of the conversation.
The way I see it, the only [actual] "claim" that @ThereRoseaLamb has made is that she believes - probably based on her understanding of the story and the related history - that the preacher was born-again and preaching the gospel to folks as the ship sank.
None of us - including you - can say that we know with any absolute certainty what the preacher's "salvation status" was; however, what each of us can do is "judge for ourselves" whatever we think based on the available information. And, I will recommend that we not judge each other on what we think about it - it is not unreasonable to allow others their own opinion. I suggest that it is unwise to argue with someone over something that neither of you can possibly get any closer to the absolute truth of the matter in this life...
3) You are trying to make a point which - in the right context - would be okay; however, you are doing it for the wrong reason - no one here (other than you) is conducting themselves in a kind of conversation that would offer the proper context that would make it more legitimate.
It is usually better to be polite first and then offer some scriptural insight if it is warranted.
Have a conversation and not an argument.
1) I have no idea if you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit or not.
Should I rant-and-rail about it for the next two or three pages?
Should I warn folks that you might be a wolf in sheep's clothing?
What would it accomplish except to make you angry or frustrated?
2) You need to learn how to "read" the intention in someone's statement and accept it at face value for the sake of the conversation.
The way I see it, the only [actual] "claim" that @ThereRoseaLamb has made is that she believes - probably based on her understanding of the story and the related history - that the preacher was born-again and preaching the gospel to folks as the ship sank.
None of us - including you - can say that we know with any absolute certainty what the preacher's "salvation status" was; however, what each of us can do is "judge for ourselves" whatever we think based on the available information. And, I will recommend that we not judge each other on what we think about it - it is not unreasonable to allow others their own opinion. I suggest that it is unwise to argue with someone over something that neither of you can possibly get any closer to the absolute truth of the matter in this life...
3) You are trying to make a point which - in the right context - would be okay; however, you are doing it for the wrong reason - no one here (other than you) is conducting themselves in a kind of conversation that would offer the proper context that would make it more legitimate.
It is usually better to be polite first and then offer some scriptural insight if it is warranted.
Have a conversation and not an argument.
Thank you brother for the insight. I guess I should have skipped the Titanic Story and asked people if they were assured of their salvation. I just felt the story was poignant and worth a share. I didn't think I'd be called to be a witness at an event that happened before I was born.
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I was born to a family already that had parents who were born again and filled with the Holy Spirit and part of a Church congregation. So the chances were better than average that I would end up saved myself. But just in case I did flip on it using a coin that had the same image on both sides. So I kind of knew calling heads would be in my favor
I don't think there was anything wrong with the story - or you telling it - and, I am pretty sure I understood it in the context that you intended...
Well, I hear penguins are very intelligent
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