Hell's Population Clock

[WebersHome]

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Q: doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever as per Ps 100:5,
Ps 106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?

A: God's mercy never wears out; but His patience sometimes wears thin.
Good examples of that are the people swept away by the hand of God in the
Flood, and those burned to death in Sodom and Gomorrah; and the firstborn
of man and beast slain Passover night in Egypt.

Beware that you don't push God too far. For example:

†. Hos 4:17 . . Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.

In other words: God instructed the prophet Hosea not to bother preaching in
Ephraim. They were too far gone

Pop Clock Update: 84 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 4,920,804 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[WebersHome]

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Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in Christ's statement. It's
present tense rather than future, indicating that people who listen to the
Lord's message, and believe in God, have eternal life right now-- no delay
and no waiting period.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Since John 5:24 is an element of the gospel; then those who refuse to
believe Jesus' statement is true, are already destined for hell-- no delay,
and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

Eternal life is a quality of life that's impervious to time, decay, death, and
the aging process. Therefore; believers with eternal life, and thus already
passed from death into life; are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.

Pop Clock Update: 87 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,096,547 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[WebersHome]

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†. Jonah 4:9-11 . . God said to Jonah: Do you have a right to be angry
about the vine? I do; he said. I am angry enough to die. But the Lord said:
You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or
make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. But Nineveh has
more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right
hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned
about that great city?

Had not the adults of Nineveh repented at Jonah's preaching, 120,000 small
children would have died through no fault of their own. They would have
been collateral damage had God lowered the boom on their parents. Just
exactly how the hand of God would have destroyed the glory of Nineveh isn't
stated in Jonah's prophecy; but in Nahum's prophecy it was by means of war
and conquest.

Just exactly how God is able to engineer such things is a bit of a mystery;
but does make one wonder where else this terrifying work of His goes on.
Did God somehow have a hand in the American civil war, and the first and
second world wars, and the Holocaust, and in Korea and Vietnam, and in the
so-called Arab Spring, and in the pandemics, the ethnic cleansings, and the
genocides of the last century, and in natural events like mighty earthquakes,
tsunamis, and super storms? I really have to wonder sometimes because
Jonah's God is still out there somewhere.

Pop Clock Update: 92 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,389,452 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[WebersHome]

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The ordeal that Christ endured on the cross was so brief that it looks like
child's play in comparison to the horrors and the miseries of souls in Hell. His
sufferings barely lasted six hours (cf. Mark 15:25, Matt 27:46-50) not even
one whole day. People in hell go day, after day, after day, after day, after
day, infinitum.

Q: But if Christ suffered only six hours, how can he possibly atone for people
facing eternal punishment?

A: That's easy. It wasn't his suffering that atoned for Man's sins; it was the
loss of his life that did the trick. Christ didn't have to go to the flames
himself in order to rescue people from flames; no, he only had to die in
accordance with the law of sin and death.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death

Individual human lives are of such low value that the most that anybody
could hope to die for is just one sin. In most cases; that leaves a pretty
large balance to atone for. In contrast; the value of the life of God's son is
such that his death can atone for an infinite number of everybody's sins.

†. 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from
the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid
was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of
Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Peter called the blood of Christ two things: a ransom and precious, meaning
it's like rare jewels and metals; very scarce and very pricey. Nobody else's
life is nearly as scarce and as valuable as Christ's life. Peter would never call
regular human life rare and pricey. Ordinary human lives are wholesale:
they're cheap as the grass (Isa 40:6-7, 1Pet 1:24) just a dime a dozen and
quite useless for redemption purposes. Jesus' life is the only life God will
accept for multiple sins: and the alternative is infinite punishment because
no amount of limited punishment can ever equal the value of Christ's blood
because not only is a life like Christ's rare, but his is the only one like it in
existence. (cf. Rom 3:9-20, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, 1John 3:9)

Serial sinners are up a creek with no paddle because they have but two lives
to forfeit for sin-- the life they have now, and the one they'll have later at
their resurrection; but unfortunately, the first of those two lives is ear
marked for Adam's sin so they can't use it to atone for any of their own sins.
And when they're resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15; that'll be their last life because according to Dan
12:2 and John 5:28-29 there's only one resurrection allotted per person.
And since the Bible's ratio is one life per one sin, then serial sinners will
come up short and never have sufficient lives to atone for a lifetime's
accumulation of sins.

Pop Clock Update: 95 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,565,195 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[WebersHome]

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Q: You say absolute justice for sins can't be satisfied with torture. Is hell
thus inadequate justice or overdone justice?

A: The dungeons of hell can be compared to a debtor's prison.

†. Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too
late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in
jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last
penny.

The reason that hell is a debtor's prison is because the only payment for
one's sins that God will accept is death. Well; it's death for each sin. So if
somebody has say, 200 sins to answer for, they'll only be able to pay for one
because according to Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29 there is but one resurrection
allotted per person; not 200. In that sense; hell is insufficient justice.

If absolute justice could be satisfied with torture, then hell's inmates could
look forward to a release date. But alas; such isn't to happen because the
only "coinage" the Bible's God is in a position to accept in lieu of their own
lives is His son's life.

†. 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from
the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid
was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of
Christ, the sinless, spotless lamb of God.

In other words; Christ's crucifixion is the final option. Those who refuse to
take advantage of it, will cross over to the other side in poverty; with
literally no way in hell to pay their debts to God; thus they'll be stuck there.

Pop Clock Update: 99 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,799,519 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[WebersHome]

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Far from being immortal, the natural-born human soul is quite susceptible to
termination.

†. Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The koiné Greek word for "destroy" in that passage is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo
mee) whioch is a bit ambiguous. It can mean not only to annihilate, but also
to kill; for example:

Matt 2:13
Matt 12:14
Matt 26:52
Matt 27:20
Mark 9:22
Lk 6:9
Lk 11:51
Lk 15:17
Lk 17:27
John 10:28
John 18:14
1Cor 10:9-10
2Pet 3:6
Jude 1:5

Q: Are dead human souls sentient?

A: Well; I've been with dead human bodies so I know for myself that dead
human bodies are not sentient. But I have never been with a dead human
soul so I have no personal experience to draw upon in that connection.

However, human life consists of more than only a body and a soul.
According to 1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12, Heb 12:23, and 1Pet 3:18-20; human life
also consists of spirit.

Apparently spirit cannot be destroyed by the fires of hell. I know that's true
because the Devil is spirit, and according to Rev 20:10; he will be
incarcerated in the reservoir of flaming sulfur, not to die, but so suffer--
forever. Quite a number of people are destined for that very same fate.

†. Matt 25:41 . . He will also say to those on the left hand: Depart from me,
you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The reverse logic of the jingle below is amusing:

"Guns don't kill people: People kill people."

It says though a gun is potentially lethal, it isn't a sentient being with a mind
of its own. Nevertheless, the fact remains that guns are quite capable of
killing people. In point of fact, according to a National Safety Council report;
in 2006 there was a total of 30,896 deaths by firearm in the USA from all
causes; both intentional and unintentional; both legal and illegal.

Here's another selection of reverse logic.

"Hell doesn't kill souls; God kills souls."

Is that jingle the whole truth and nothing but the truth? No; of course not.
Though the Bible's hell is no more a sentient being with a mind of its own
than a gun, it is nevertheless quite capable of killing souls.

The point is that a gun might terminate your body's life; but it cannot
terminate your soul's life. However, hell is far more powerful than a gun. It
will not only take your body's life, but it will take your soul's life too. To pull
the trigger, so to speak; all God has to do is drop you in there.

Q: If somebody is already dead, then how can hell kill their body?

A: The current hell doesn't kill the human body because for now when
people die, their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out ahead in
the future; people in the current hell will be resurrected to face justice at the
Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. It is then when
people's bodies will be terminated by yet another hell; and since there is but
one resurrection allotted per person (Dan 12:2 & John 5:28-29) then nobody
is ever coming back from that hell.

OBJECTION: There is a lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15. Sorry; but it's
impossible to liquefy flame

REBUTTAL: According to Rev 20:10, the lake consists of not only fire; but
also a non-metallic substance called brimstone; which Webster's defines as
sulfur.

Sulfur melts at 232.36º F and boils at 832.28º F. If sulfur's temperature is
maintained in that range; it easily suffices for an impoundment consisting of
both flame and liquid.

Pop Clock Update: 102 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,975,262 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[Reborn]

Pop Clock Update: 102 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 5,975,262 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

Interesting.

As for your fascination with it and keeping track?
........a bit on the morbid side, wouldn't you agree?

 

[WebersHome]

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a bit on the morbid side, wouldn't you agree?

You mean like the Afghanistan body count that syndicated newspapers
publish on a daily basis, or the deaths by means of crime, disease,
terrorism, and accidents reported on the evening news? Like that?

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[Reborn]

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You mean like the Afghanistan body count that syndicated newspapers
publish on a daily basis, or the deaths by means of crime, disease,
terrorism, and accidents reported on the evening news? Like that?

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I'm VERY aware of what is happening in the world. Out of curiosity, why have a hell counter though?

Who in CC benefits from this, Sir?

Might I suggest we do a study on:
where people "go" when they die?, Hades/Hell, the Lake of Fire, the "Sleeping", "Outer Darkness", what and where "weeping and gnashing of teeth" happens, Kingdoms, "Death", "the dead"...to name a few?

Any of these, I'm cool with it?
We can fine tune this counter?

 

[WebersHome]

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Might I suggest we do a study on: where people "go" when they die?,
Hades/Hell, the Lake of Fire, the "Sleeping", "Outer Darkness", what and
where "weeping and gnashing of teeth" happens, Kingdoms, "Death", "the
dead"...to name a few?

You've come to this thread late in the game. You really ought to start with
post #1 and bring yourself up to speed on the subjects that were addressed
in the past before you arrived.

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[blue_ladybug]

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You've come to this thread late in the game. You really ought to start with
post #1 and bring yourself up to speed on the subjects that were addressed
in the past before you arrived.

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i don't think he wants to read through 130 posts worth of pages.. :/

 

[Reborn]

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You've come to this thread late in the game. You really ought to start with
post #1 and bring yourself up to speed on the subjects that were addressed
in the past before you arrived.

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I remember when you started this..........Actually, I was the 3rd or 4th person to post here.
I apologize, I really haven't followed it since.

Your population counter is all I need to see to know that you and I disagree.
I have so many questions...?(that is, if you have truly covered everything stated above)
.....if you did?.....then how in the world did you come up with this whole counter thing then?

Sorry.

 

[skylove7]

I just now read your very first post for the first time! And you estimate your OWN ratio? That's taking it upon yourself to play a little ' God' isn't it friend! I'm too enticed to read further...maybe another time,...like um when pigs fly?

 

[WebersHome]

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how in the world did you come up with this whole counter thing

Several years ago; I really don't remember when, maybe 2003, it struck me
one day that if what Christ said at Luke 13:22-24, Matt 7:13-14, & Matt
22:14 is true; it means that more people are going to hell than not.

So just out of curiosity I looked up some population figures at a Federal web
site, dug out my calculator, and crunched some numbers to get an idea of
just how bad the situation might be. As you can see from post #1 it's much
worse than many of us ever imagined.

So just for the fun of it I experimented with a thread on Yahoo back in the
day to see what people thought. Well; long story short, I was instantly
decried as a sicko and a heartless monster. Mockers called me Hell Boy, and
others soundly trashed and condemned me for being judgmental and playing
God.

The experience on Yahoo made me realize that too many people are
insulated from hell. They don't mind bull sessions about hell but when you
put a face on it; they become very agitated.

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[tourist]

We can fine tune this counter?

Good idea. And then re-set it to zero.

 

[Reborn]

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The experience on Yahoo made me realize that too many people are
insulated from hell. They don't mind bull sessions about hell but when you
put a face on it; they become very agitated.

==============================

I can see it being effective as a scare tactic, or a eye opener to grab attention?...but as 100% teachable, Biblical proof?
I understand that most just go off of the popular thoughts of hell, and this is not a salvation issue.

I would agree and use to.
Now, I'm not so sure, because Revelation 19 and 20, was enough to make me question all popular theories.

Rev 19--These are casted into a "Lake of Fire"? Rev 20, the rest are casted into the "Lake of Fire"? ...INCLUDING hell?!

How do you cast hell into itself?
Are we talking about multiple judgements here? Pull hell up, judge them, them cast them back into hell?
Being casted into hell WITHOUT judgement at the moment of death, states that you are already guilty?

Some major loopholes here, wouldn't you agree?
Do we ignore Rev 19 and 20? Do we ignore how the word "hell" (not, Lake of Fire) is used throughout the Bible?
Do we ignore how many times one is "judged" upon and after death?

I'm not 100% on what any of it means?
This just seems a bit extreme, Sir.

 

[PennEd]

Weber, after 3 months of this I think everybody gets the point. It might be time for YOU to examine why you are so fixated on trying to figure out hell's pop. vs. using your Spiritual gifts, outlined in Corinthians, to reduce the numbers you think will inhabit it. Leave the numbers and judging to God and love everybody, with Christ-like attributes.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[WebersHome]

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I can see it being effective as a scare tactic, or a eye opener to grab
attention?...but as 100% teachable, Biblical proof?

I do not recommend using my "clock" as proof of anything. It's just the
home-spun musing of an armchair theologian. In other words; I'm just doing
it for recreation rather than for the record.

Rev 19--These are casted into a "Lake of Fire"? Rev 20, the rest are casted
into the "Lake of Fire"? ...INCLUDING hell?! How do you cast hell into
itself?

The koiné Greek word for "hell" in Rev 20:13-14 is haides (hah'-dace) which
doesn't eo ipso indicate a place of fiery suffering. It's primary meaning is the
netherworld, where, at one time, every deceased person went regardless of
their age and regardless of their goodness or their badness. Even Christ
went there (Psalm 16:10 & Acts 2:23-32) and he was a good person.

According to Luke 16:19-31, haides is (or was) divided into two sections:
one for good people and one for bad people. The section designated for good
people was (or is) quite pleasant. (Luke 23:43).

The reason haides is slated for demolition is simply because there will be no
need for it in the future. Its bad people will be transferred to the lake of fire,
and its good people to a new cosmos and a new earth.

Being casted into hell WITHOUT judgement at the moment of death, states
that you are already guilty?

Yes.

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[WebersHome]

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It's estimated in post #1 that something like something like 58,581 new
arrivals check into the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours on the
clock from all over the world; which if projected to the end of the 21st
century from 03/25/15 would eventually total 1.813 billion people; and
that's not factoring in all the people who have already lived and died during
the past millennia ever since the sixth day of Genesis. That's a lot of people;
and you have to wonder if the netherworld is sufficient to hold those people.
How will they all fit?

Well; according to 1Pet 3:18-20, the people in hades are interred there as
spirits-- which is a supernatural, non material substance that takes up no
space in the material world.

A good case in point is the feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33
possessed by a community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion.
Webster's defines a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army
comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with cavalry. The spirits the Lord
exorcised from the man went out and possessed a herd of about 2,000
swine, so that's a pretty good example of how spirits take up no room in the
physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those
spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be
no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the
point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world. So that the internal
regions of planet Earth (if that's where the hades of the Bible is) have plenty
of room for more and more occupants since people exist in the netherworld
as spirits rather than physical mortals because their bodies stay here when
they pass over to the other side. So then, all those 58,581 people from
around the world who died and transferred to hades yesterday, didn't create
a housing shortage when they arrived. No, they fit in quite easily; and
there's still plenty of room left for more since spirits don't need space: they
just need a place.

Pop Clock Update: 105 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 6,151,005 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

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[dcontroversal]

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It's estimated in post #1 that something like something like 58,581 new
arrivals check into the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours on the
clock from all over the world; which if projected to the end of the 21st
century from 03/25/15 would eventually total 1.813 billion people; and
that's not factoring in all the people who have already lived and died during
the past millennia ever since the sixth day of Genesis. That's a lot of people;
and you have to wonder if the netherworld is sufficient to hold those people.
How will they all fit?

Well; according to 1Pet 3:18-20, the people in hades are interred there as
spirits-- which is a supernatural, non material substance that takes up no
space in the material world.

A good case in point is the feral man of Mark 5:1-13 and Luke 8:26-33
possessed by a community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion.
Webster's defines a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army
comprising 3,000 to 6,000 foot soldiers with cavalry. The spirits the Lord
exorcised from the man went out and possessed a herd of about 2,000
swine, so that's a pretty good example of how spirits take up no room in the
physical world; nor do they crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those
spirits managed to fit inside the bodily cargo area of just that one man.

Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be
no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the
point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world. So that the internal
regions of planet Earth (if that's where the hades of the Bible is) have plenty
of room for more and more occupants since people exist in the netherworld
as spirits rather than physical mortals because their bodies stay here when
they pass over to the other side. So then, all those 58,581 people from
around the world who died and transferred to hades yesterday, didn't create
a housing shortage when they arrived. No, they fit in quite easily; and
there's still plenty of room left for more since spirits don't need space: they
just need a place.

Pop Clock Update: 105 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 6,151,005 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since December 10,
2014.

=================================

It does say that hell is enlarged without measure......there is always room for one more...!