Hell, Sheol, Hades...

[Mem]

Yeah, the thought of eternal punishment does sound excessively cruel but your argument isn't with people, it's with God - He's the one that set those rules of what's fair and unfair and made those rules very clear.

You also have to trust God that He knows what is in the heart of every person who rejects Him.

It does say in the Bible that in the end times, even though all those judgments will fall on those who refuse to get saved, they will still be unrepentant. They would rather die than give their life over to the Lord. And God is not going to force them. Hence their sentence.

I don't see any reason to go beyond this point in hoping for any sound discussion. I mean, really, who'd want to argue with God

 

[Mem]

Yeah, the thought of eternal punishment does sound excessively cruel but your argument isn't with people, it's with God

I don't see any reason to go beyond this point in hoping for any sound discussion. I mean, really, I don't want to argue with God

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Mem 's Post #218 (bottom portion, addressed to me), it seems to be your assumption that the word "destroy" in Scripture always carries the meaning of "annihilates / annihilation"...

but it doesn't...

... and in my Post #102 (page 6 of this thread), I supplied "49 different Hebrew and Aramaic words in the OT for the English word 'destroy / destroyed / destroying'" ... (they don't all mean identical things either)...

... the NT also has a variety of different words for our English word "destroy" (Heb2:14 happens to be the Greek word G2673 καταργέω katargéō - https://christianchat.com/threads/hell-sheol-hades.206073/post-5025112 , rather than another one).


But, you are free to believe as you wish, Mem.





[I would suggest to the readers, to study this out...]

 

[Mem]

You can just read the judgements for yourself in the Bible. The punishment is conscious torment for those who reject God. Really, your argument is with God, not me.

Again, with the "arguing with God" card. Lol, aren't you convinced?

 

[Mem]

@Mem 's Post #218 (bottom portion, addressed to me), it seems to be your assumption that the word "destroy" in Scripture always carries the meaning of "annihilates / annihilation"...

but it doesn't...

... and in my Post #102 (page 6 of this thread), I supplied "49 different Hebrew and Aramaic words in the OT for the English word 'destroy / destroyed / destroying'" ... (they don't all mean identical things either)...

... the NT also has a variety of different words for our English word "destroy" (Heb2:14 happens to be G2673, rather than another one).

word salad. with a side of patronization. mmm

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ the same G2673 word is used in Romans 6:6--and where it speaks of "the body of the sin," it is not referencing our physical bodies, as some suppose:

https://biblehub.com/text/romans/6-6.htm






3778 [e]
6 touto
6 τοῦτο
6 this
6 DPro-ANS

1097 [e]
ginōskontes
γινώσκοντες ,
knowing
V-PPA-NMP

3754 [e]
hoti
ὅτι
that
Conj

3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
-
Art-NMS

3820 [e]
palaios
παλαιὸς
old
Adj-NMS

1473 [e]
hēmōn
ἡμῶν
of us
PPro-G1P

444 [e]
anthrōpos
ἄνθρωπος
self
N-NMS

4957 [e]
synestaurōthē
συνεσταυρώθη ,
was crucified with [Him]
V-AIP-3S

2443 [e]
hina
ἵνα
so that
Conj

2673 [e]
katargēthē
καταργηθῇ
might be annulled
V-ASP-3S

3588 [e]
to
τὸ
the
Art-NNS

4983 [e]
sōma
σῶμα
body
N-NNS

3588 [e]
tēs
τῆς
-
Art-GFS

266 [e]
hamartias
ἁμαρτίας ,
of sin
N-GFS

3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
[that]
Art-GNS

3371 [e]
mēketi
μηκέτι
no longer
Adv

1398 [e]
douleuein
δουλεύειν
are enslaved
V-PNA

1473 [e]
hēmas
ἡμᾶς
we
PPro-A1P

3588 [e]
tē
τῇ
-
Art-DFS

266 [e]
hamartia
ἁμαρτίᾳ .
to sin
N-DFS

 

[oyster67]

But there's always that your idea of punishment is another's cruel and unusual torture.

I find it very troubling, how untroubled people are of the idea of everlasting torture.

It obviously troubled Jesus also. He went to great lengths to warn people... and then he allowed Himself to be "tortured". He did that for us.

Can you imagine how the Father felt as he had to watch vile men mutilate His dear Son? God is capable of anger and wrath. It is our job to warn them that rejecting the grace and mercy that Jesus bought with His own blood carries dire consequences.

Shall we cast our lot with the vile pigs who crucified the most beautiful thing that ever graced the face of the Earth? Shall we plead for them and ignore any sense of justice whatsoever? Mercy and grace is bountiful and free. Woe to them who reject it.

 

[Mem]

It obviously troubled Jesus also. He went to great lengths to warn people... and then he allowed Himself to be "tortured". He did that for us.

Can you imagine how the Father felt as he had to watch vile men mutilate His dear Son? God is capable of anger and wrath. It is our job to warn them that rejecting the grace and mercy that Jesus bought with His own blood carries dire consequences.

Shall we cast our lot with the vile pigs who crucified the most beautiful thing that ever graced the face of the Earth? Shall we plead for them and ignore any sense of justice whatsoever? Mercy and grace is bountiful and free. Woe to them who reject it.

Jesus pleaded for them when He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

 

[oyster67]

Jesus pleaded for them when He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

Yes, He did.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

No man would knowingly attempt to touch the almighty omnipotent Creator of the universe. Any man would understand that He was signing his own death sentence. Jesus gave them a second chance. That is mercy. That is love.

Christ did not go to the cross just to keep men from "poofing" out of existence. He desires to save us from eternal doom.

 

[oyster67]

Christ did not go to the cross to just offer men a promotion,
Christ went to the cross to offer men Salvation.

 

[Mem]

Yes, He did.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

No man would knowingly attempt to touch the almighty omnipotent Creator of the universe. Any man would understand that He was signing his own death sentence. Jesus gave them a second chance. That is mercy. That is love.

Christ did not go to the cross just to keep men from "poofing" out of existence. He desires to save us from eternal doom.

Methinks thou selleth God's love and mercy short. What is "poofing' out of existence" if it isn't eternal doom?

 

[oyster67]

Again, with the "arguing with God" card. Lol, aren't you convinced?

When I was very young, these thoughts used to trouble me also.
As I got older, I began to see the darkness of man's heart. I began to understand that things like torture were real and some men actually derived joy from such things. Crucifixion is a fine example. Some men choose to adopt Satan as their Father. To sympathize with them is to sympathize with their Father.
1 John 3:8
“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

We must all come to the place of Job before we can be at peace with ourselves and our maker.
Job 40:
3Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
4Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Job 42:
3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

 

[oyster67]

Methinks thou selleth God's love and mercy short.

God loves you and I very much. He does not want us to be bitter, angry, or frustrated. He just wants us to trust Him and know He loves us. Please just trust that His ways are higher than our ways. I was confused as I watched my mother and father die, but I found that it was ok to just let go and trust God. He is our only hope. Don't cut the cord.
John 6:
66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

 

[oyster67]

Methinks thou selleth God's love and mercy short.

John 15:13
“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

 

[HeIsHere]

I find it troubling how people can poo-poo death is if it were nothing to fear, in spite of the scripture, "... so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death." and think they do good make death even more fearful. The better to hold those who all their lives are held slavery by their fear of death, perhaps?

I have not seen anyone on this thread "poo-poo" death.

But to state that death in scripture means "annihilation" as in to make non-existent is quite ridiculous.

 

[Mem]

I have not seen anyone on this thread "poo-poo" death.

But to state that death in scripture means "annihilation" as in to make non-existent is quite ridiculous.

As ridiculous as it may sound to you, if it is truth, then you consider the truth is ridiculous. But, that is your privilege.

 

[HeIsHere]

Methinks thou selleth God's love and mercy short. What is "poofing' out of existence" if it isn't eternal doom?

How is God being more merciful when He annihilates>

It obviously troubled Jesus also. He went to great lengths to warn people... and then he allowed Himself to be "tortured". He did that for us.

Can you imagine how the Father felt as he had to watch vile men mutilate His dear Son? God is capable of anger and wrath. It is our job to warn them that rejecting the grace and mercy that Jesus bought with His own blood carries dire consequences.

Shall we cast our lot with the vile pigs who crucified the most beautiful thing that ever graced the face of the Earth? Shall we plead for them and ignore any sense of justice whatsoever? Mercy and grace is bountiful and free. Woe to them who reject it.

I cannot disagree with this, yet I cannot help but sense that some Christians derive some self satisfaction imagining the most vile

person burning in hell, and yet the same fate awaits even the most innocuous person who has not come to faith.

 

[HeIsHere]

As ridiculous as it may sound to you, if it is truth, then you consider the truth is ridiculous. But, that is your privilege.

Where has someone on this thread PooPoo'd death?

 

[Mem]

How is God being more merciful when He annihilates>

I can't imagine that your imagination is so limited as not be able to fathom h

Where has someone on this thread PooPoo'd death?

You just posted about how ridiculous death would be if it were just ceasing to exist. And it in fact that is exactly what death is, you yourself are poopooing death. Yet, why then do we refer to death as being deceased?

 

[Magenta]

I have not seen anyone on this thread "poo-poo" death.

But to state that death in scripture means "annihilation" as in to make non-existent is quite ridiculous.

You keep pushing this atheistic materialistic view of death as if anyone here but you and maybe
Ed holds to it when nobody else has said anything of the sort. You have asked me about it more
than once and I directly answered more than once yet you say you keep asking because nobody
answers. It is hard not to conclude from this that you have a problem with comprehension.

This topic comes up regularly as any any other. Some Christians say such things as, death is not
punishment, and death is nothing to fear. Both these attitudes fly in the face of what Scripture
actually says. They erroneously claim that if punishment is not ongoing, it has never happened.
Somehow when this topic comes up, their ability to reason flies out the window.