Hebrews 6

[Cameron143]

My point is that The Love Of Jesus was demonstrated on the Cross and in the Vicarious suffering He endured.
Yet the love was given while we are sinners, and many rejected the love, died, and are in hell.

Do you think I believe otherwise?

 

[glf]

2 Pet 2: 20, 21 KJV "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they had known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

What was that holy commandment, you ask?

It can be seen in: 1 Jn 3:19-23 KJV "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For it our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, that we should believe upon his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another as he gave us commandment."
Are your prayers being answered?

And in Rom 11: 20-22 KJV "Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not high minded, but fear. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed least he also spare not thee. Behold, the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell severity, but towards thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness, otherwise thou shalt also be cut off."

 

[rogerg]

So, if a saved believer were to denounce Jesus and fell away thereby doing, would he be still saved? This is exactly what Hebrews 6 is warning of. If you denounce the Lord, you put him to an open shame! Are you still saved? According to you, you are! Better think that through again.

No, it does not say that. Did you read verse 9 too? Read the below verses including 6:9. That which accompanies salvation
will not permit someone saved to fall away, or to denounce Jesus because they have become born-again, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, have been given a renewed mind, and therefore, never would they have desire to do so.

[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus
Christ:

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[DJT_47]

No, it does not say that. Did you read verse 9 too? Read the below verses including 6:9. That which accompanies salvation
will not permit someone saved to fall away, or to denounce Jesus because they have become born-again, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, have been given a renewed mind, and therefore, never would they have desire to do so.

[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus
Christ:

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

That makes no sense. Why the warning to them then? Also, I pointed out on a previous post the issue of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8 and the 7 churches of Asia and Rev 2:10. It's clear that you can loose your salvation and can fall away. Osas is a false doctrine.

 

[rogerg]

That makes no sense. Why the warning to them then? Also, I pointed out on a previous post the issue of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8 and the 7 churches of Asia and Rev 2:10. It's clear that you can loose your salvation and can fall away. Osas is a false doctrine.

The verses make no sense? Really? You didn't understand them, or do you think they're incorrect, which?
Salvation is eternal, period. That is why it is called eternal life.

The warning? Edification.

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

 

[DJT_47]

The verses make no sense? Really? You didn't understand them, or do you think they're incorrect, which?
Salvation is eternal, period. That is why it is called eternal life.

The warning? Edification.

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV] 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

You make no sense, your position. And verse 9 of Hebrews 6 changes nothing relative to the warning to the Hebrew Christians. The above scriptures do not support osas. We still have tge obligation to be faithful unto death. The above doesn't change that. What if a Christian denounced Christ and became a Muslim? Is that person still saved?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, it does not say that. Did you read verse 9 too? Read the below verses including 6:9. That which accompanies salvation
will not permit someone saved to fall away, or to denounce Jesus because they have become born-again, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, have been given a renewed mind, and therefore, never would they have desire to do so.

[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

[Phl 1:6 KJV] 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus
Christ:

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

why does one verse change what’s plainly written before and after it ?

“But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: that ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s not at all saying here “ you can’t lose salvation “ it only says that when you ignore the rest of the whole chapter for the sake of one verse , the. Interpret this to be not true that’s written in the same chapter after and before the si file verse

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He is t erasing what he’s said till now or what he said after

For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: that ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Single verse nd then interpret is always way off base from what the context is saying that verse isn’t meant to say anything like “ you can’t lose salvation “

here’s a few you can use that are in context to support your efforts but one would have to go to Jesus and his words though

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A verse like this is t so fer out of context and doesn’t seem so desperate but this one’s even better but see we would have to become Jesus followers like Hebrews is talking about

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:27-30‬ ‭

If you would search the gospel the things Jesus taught and also did how he treated imperfect people who loved him and believed , you would find much more about feeling secure and safe being a believer in Jesus

youd find many more secure scriptures to support your position if you searches some of his parables and teachings

 

[rogerg]

You make no sense, your position. And verse 9 of Hebrews 6 changes nothing relative to the warning to the Hebrew Christians. The above scriptures do not support osas. We still have tge obligation to be faithful unto death. The above doesn't change that. What if a Christian denounced Christ and became a Muslim? Is that person still saved?

I make no sense? If someone should do what you said then they were never saved in the first place. Why is it so hard to
understand that? God does the saving, man does not. Salvation is by God, not by man.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You make no sense, your position. And verse 9 of Hebrews 6 changes nothing relative to the warning to the Hebrew Christians. The above scriptures do not support osas. We still have tge obligation to be faithful unto death. The above doesn't change that. What if a Christian denounced Christ and became a Muslim? Is that person still saved?

also after that verse Paul just continues talking about how they need to remain diligent and that God won’t forget the good works thoer doing ministering to the others and they should follow those who through faith and patience inherit the promises ….

There’s nothing in that whole chapter saying “ you can’t lose salvation “

 

[rogerg]

why does one verse change what’s plainly written before and after it ?

Because verse 6:9 clearly informs us that if someone is saved, then that can't happen: "though we speak thus"

 

[DJT_47]

Because verse 6:9 clearly informs us that if someone is saved, then that can't happen: "though we speak thus"

You must be reading it upside down and backwards in Chinese. This scripture as well as others say what they say and that's not in support of osas. Goodbye

 

[glf]

1 Tim 4: 1 KJV "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times, some shall fall away, giving heed to seducing spirits and the doctrine of devils."

And again in another place, "Except there is a falling away, the end shall not come."

 

[Nehemiah6]

...if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance...

The "if" is the key to understanding this passage. It confirms that those who are truly saved WILL NOT fall away. And as we see later on, Paul confirms that these Hebrew Christians were not in danger of falling away because they were truly saved.

 

[rogerg]

You must be reading it upside down and backwards in Chinese. This scripture as well as others say what they say and that's not in support of osas. Goodbye

Perhaps you don't know how the Bible is supposed to be read and so you come to incorrect interpretations.

See ya.

 

[rogerg]

1 Tim 4: 1 KJV "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times, some shall fall away, giving heed to seducing spirits and the doctrine of devils."

And again in another place, "Except there is a falling away, the end shall not come."

Yeah, but that ain't those whom God has saved.

 

[glf]

Regarding predestination, Scripture tells us, "Those whom he foreknew he did also predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son." And again, "The Lord knows the end from the beginning."
This only tells us that the members of the body of Christ will one day in the future be conformed to the image of Christ. That the Lord knows the end from the beginning does not mean that he makes it happen. Just think of time itself as being created for us mortals to inhabit. So that the Lord sees the entire timeline as if it were right now from his perspective; which is why a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. One might say that from Adam to when all the elements melt with fervent heat will be as a week to the Lord...

James tells us by the Spirit, "Let no man say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted of God' for God cannot be tempted with evil and neither does he tempt any man, but we each are tempted when we are drawn away and of our own lusts enticed." So that we sin by giving in to temptation when our lusts draw us away from our closeness to the Lord's Spirit and in our minds we're enticed by those lusts which brings forth sin. We're never made to do so by the Lord who hates all sin.

And again, in another place, "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man, but God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able, but will with the temptation make a way to escape that you may be able to bear it." So to sum up: we see that the Lord does not cause us to be tempted nor makes us to sin. We do that all on our own, even though the Lord makes a way for us to escape the temptation before we actually commit sin. This is why the mind set upon the flesh is death and the mind set upon the Spirit is life and peace.

We have a choice, not a preordained compulsion!

 

[glf]

Yeah, but that ain't those whom God has saved.

How can the natural man fall away from what he never had in the first place?

Do you know what the difference between stumbling and falling away is? When we stumble, we get back up. When we fall away, we don't! Falling away equals departing from the faith as in 1 Tim 4: 1. As scripture says, "And this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. No victory overcoming the world equals no faith!

 

[glf]

Oops, I misquoted 1 Tim 4:1 which should be, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and the doctrines of devils."

 

[rogerg]

How can the natural man fall away from what he never had in the first place?

Do you know what the difference between stumbling and falling away is? When we stumble, we get back up. When we fall away, we don't! Falling away equals departing from the faith as in 1 Tim 4: 1. As scripture says, "And this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. No victory overcoming the world equals no faith!

Generally speaking, your post makes little sense to me, but I'll take a try at it anyway.
Those saved can never lose their faith because those who have it, have it, only through Christ's victory, which victory, gave to them faith. The victory being Christ's, not theirs - they are but the recipients of it. Stumbling is not about faith but about execution.

Natural man falls away thusly - those saved will/can never be of these categories.

[Luk 19:26 KJV]
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

[Luk 8:12-13 KJV]
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

 

[rogerg]

Oops, I misquoted 1 Tim 4:1 which should be, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and the doctrines of devils."

Those who fall away do so only because they have not been saved nor indwelt by the Holy Spirit and given true faith. True faith comes from having been born again as a fruit of the Spirit, from salvation. Salvation brings faith, faith does not bring salvation. A faith that is man produced is not true faith, and, as we are informed in Luke 8:13, those with it will eventually fall from it.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,