Healing through the Son

[DJ2]

Well guys., I'm thankful to be able to say I don't believe the way you do. God is in the business of doing miracles every day and I'm thankful to be on the receiving end of my Father's love and grace. Jesus already paid for these great and precious promises and I and other Christians do believe and see them come to pass daily. I hope you both come to believe too.

I'm thankful to be able to say I don't believe the way you do also. I hope I never get to the point where I start labeling the mundane as supernatural. God is in the business of truth and not fraud and I'm thankful to not be carried away by the false narrative pushed by your ilk. Jesus has already warned us of the coming of false promises labeled as great and precious. I hope you come to understand this.

 

[joaniemarie]

Well DJ2., If you believe the major doctrines of the Christian faith your "ilk" is the same as mine. We do not have to believe the same about all things in the Bible. And in case you hadn't noticed., Christians all over the world believe differently about other subjects but we all hold to the same foundational truths about Jesus concerning the Christian faith. You need to get out of the house more often.



WE BELIEVE:

• In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
• That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
• That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
• That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
• That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God has raised Him from death to life.
• That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
• That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
• That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
• That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
• That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.

 

[DJ2]

Well DJ2., If you believe the major doctrines of the Christian faith your "ilk" is the same as mine. We do not have to believe the same about all things in the Bible. And in case you hadn't noticed., Christians all over the world believe differently about other subjects but we all hold to the same foundational truths about Jesus concerning the Christian faith. You need to get out of the house more often.



WE BELIEVE:

• In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
• That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
• That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
• That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
• That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God has raised Him from death to life.
• That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
• That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
• That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
• That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
• That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.

Nothing that you wrote separates you from the pentecostal ilk you run with.

 

[joaniemarie]

Nothing that you wrote separates you from the pentecostal ilk you run with.

Oh grow up DJ2., Good grief ., You don't know me., you don't know who I "run with" or even if I "run" Realize you are not a mind reader nor can you ascertain another Christian's heart on a Christian chat site. Read over the basic fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith and THEN get back to me. I'll re post them for you.

WE BELIEVE:

• In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
• That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
• That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
• That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life,took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
• That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God
• has raised Him from death to life.
• That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
• That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
• That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
• That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
• That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.

 

[DJ2]

Oh grow up DJ2., Good grief ., You don't know me., you don't know who I "run with" or even if I "run" Realize you are not a mind reader nor can you ascertain another Christian's heart on a Christian chat site. Read over the basic fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith and THEN get back to me. I'll re post them for you.

WE BELIEVE:

• In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
• That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
• That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
• That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life,took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
• That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God
• has raised Him from death to life.
• That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
• That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
• That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
• That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
• That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.

You are simply attempting to back away from the OP. The OP was about claims of supernatural physical healing being available to all Christians. I watched the video. It is not about the common theology of main stream Christianity. This is about claims of the existence of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit today not communion.

Dan Mohler is wrong and so are you and your ilk. Pentecostals simply label the mundane as supernatural, nothing more.

 

[wolfwint]

For clarification, post 633 is not correct coming out. You have to exchange Joaniemaries and my name.
The last sentence is from me.

 

[wolfwint]

It is hard for us to overcome our religious teachings and so anything that is different from what we were taught is viewed as "blasphemy and false teaching".


Saying that God "allowed" satan to bring destruction on Job's family and to give him a disease is the same thing as us giving someone "permission" to rape our daughter or give our children a disease.


We would throw people in jail if they did such a thing and yet we ascribe these very same things to God. Where do we get this sense of injustice that we would put people in jail for such atrocities? We get it from the virtue of goodness which is an attribute of God's character.


The human heart will not trust in anyone who would do such atrocious things and yet we say that God "allows" satan to kill our children and to give us diseases.


The belief that everything that happens is from God's is a deadly false belief and all false religions have it. It's fatal paganism.


Ultimately God has the final say and His will shall be manifested when the physical kingdom comes into being. In the meantime - we have the kingdom of God within us as believers in our spirits. This false belief that God "allows" all things is from the enemy to make us believers passive and the enemy just runs over us at will.




There is persecution for the gospel's sake as we give our lives if called on but that is not the same as what happened to Job and his family.


And we see the end of Job - that God gave back to Job 2x timeswhat the enemy had taken from him.


Job said that "he had spoken foolishly about God and uttered things that he didn't know" but now at the end of the book of Job - he says "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You; therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6


Job changed his thinking ( repented ) about what he had previously said and believed about God when He saw Him for who He truly is. We "hear" others speak about what they believe God to be like and thus we say the same things just like Job did.


But like Job - We do the same thing when we see the Father in the life of the Lord Jesus Christ who came to reveal the true heart and will of the Father while He was on this earth. We repent from our beliefs from those that we have heard about the character of God which may not be accurate - we repent to believe what Christ has revealed to us about the true nature of God. Our eyes then see God for who He truly is.
===================================

Amen!! Got this from a friend in my email this morning. Totally agree.

Joaniemarie, you agree fully with the post of your friend. If you would read Job chapter 2 you would recognize that God allowed Satan to attack Job with what Satan want; except to take Jobs life. God allowed it! If you deny this then you deny Gods word.
Another example Paul asked the Lord 3 times to remove the thorn in his flesh. And what the Lord answered? My grace should be enough for you. The Lord allowed the thorn in Pauls yyflesh, whatever it was. And Pauls reaction? He accept it without mourning ore blameing the Lord.
Paul had more expierince with the Lord then somebody of us. He was for shure not lacking on faith. And he taught also nowhere about the physical healing is in the atonement.

 

[1ofthem]

Well, I guess I jumped in this without even knowing what the whole argument was about. So I'm gonna just go ahead and say what I believe and that might me unpopular with most of y'all, but so be it.

1. God does still heal and perform miracles, if you think he don't then you need to read the word of God. God is still God and the Bible was written for us all, not just the apostles.
2. These things are done according to the will of God...God knows what's best for each of us and he will work all things for our good.....Not all will be healed. Healing is not included in the atonement.

Seems to me some are taking it to one extreme and others are taking to the other extreme.

Just my thoughts on it anyhow.

 

[wolfwint]

Well, I guess I jumped in this without even knowing what the whole argument was about. So I'm gonna just go ahead and say what I believe and that might me unpopular with most of y'all, but so be it.

1. God does still heal and perform miracles, if you think he don't then you need to read the word of God. God is still God and the Bible was written for us all, not just the apostles.
2. These things are done according to the will of God...God knows what's best for each of us and he will work all things for our good.....Not all will be healed. Healing is not included in the atonement.

Seems to me some are taking it to one extreme and others are taking to the other extreme.

Just my thoughts on it anyhow.

I agree with you in that what you wrote!

 

[joaniemarie]

You are simply attempting to back away from the OP. The OP was about claims of supernatural physical healing being available to all Christians. I watched the video. It is not about the common theology of main stream Christianity. This is about claims of the existence of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit today not communion.

Dan Mohler is wrong and so are you and your ilk. Pentecostals simply label the mundane as supernatural, nothing more.

Not at all. I'm trying to show you that although you may disagree with me about secondary issues like healing in the atonement., It doesn't change the fact that we are both Christians. But you seem to think we are of a different "ilk" And that is wrong. If you have Jesus you have eternal life and you are a brother in Christ. You may disagree with me on different Bible topics as some of the others here but you and they are not my enemy. And vs/vs.

I 100% believe in healing in the atonement of Christ that I will always post about. But I see a major childish bunch of Christians here who can't agree to disagree and who instead have hissyfits and temper tantrums against anyone who may disagree with them.

That is what I have been trying to say to you. You are free to disagree and so am I. You don't have to like the guy in the video or agree with him. He is still a born again child of God. As are you. Let's not do the devil's work and bite and devour one another just because we don't agree with every doctrine in the Bible. Christians have many differing beliefs on many things in the Bible. Healing is just one of hundreds.

 

[Undoubting]

Yes, God will provide, but it is not always exactly what we want or when we want it. God blesses us according to his will. He knows exactly what each and everyone of us needs. We are also told that we should be content with such things as we have. We are to set our affections on things above and have faith in God that he will give us what we need in this life according to his Good and Perfect will.

Job was without blame in the law, but the whole point of his tribulation was so he could understand the underlying message that works are not what God seeks in us. Job did not have a relationship with God, he had a vending machine and he thought all he had to do was punch in the correct number code. Job's painstakingly difficult dilemma took so long for him to understand because he couldn't reconcile his notion that works=favor. He viewed God as an employer, not a Father.

Job is but one of many examples of God seeking a relationship with us. The Israelites had many lessons in this regard and still could not get it. All but a few, that is.

 

[Undoubting]

Not at all. I'm trying to show you that although you may disagree with me about secondary issues like healing in the atonement., It doesn't change the fact that we are both Christians. But you seem to think we are of a different "ilk" And that is wrong. If you have Jesus you have eternal life and you are a brother in Christ. You may disagree with me on different Bible topics as some of the others here but you and they are not my enemy. And vs/vs.

I 100% believe in healing in the atonement of Christ that I will always post about. But I see a major childish bunch of Christians here who can't agree to disagree and who instead have hissyfits and temper tantrums against anyone who may disagree with them.

That is what I have been trying to say to you. You are free to disagree and so am I. You don't have to like the guy in the video or agree with him. He is still a born again child of God. As are you. Let's not do the devil's work and bite and devour one another just because we don't agree with every doctrine in the Bible. Christians have many differing beliefs on many things in the Bible. Healing is just one of hundreds.

I totally get your frustration, but try to avoid snapping back at someone who cast stones at you. I am speaking to myself here too. It is carnal nature to lash out but it is our Savior's example to accept persecution. Jesus didn't say from where it would come. I think it is unfortunate more people don't read the Book of Acts and understand the authority of Jesus Christ is the same now as it was then. It is a form of unbelief and a sin, which Jesus was repeatedly frustrated with his disciples.

The examples of healing are numerous right now, as I am sure you understand. There is so much emotion entangled in this subject and some may be exponentially affected by non-healing. Many associate a death of a loved one as God's will to take them. I certainly don't want to kick anyone when they are down, but praying passively is not praying with faith and one shouldn't expect results. "If it's your will" prayers are exactly that, passive.

I pray that others will see the amazing wonders God has given us with the death and resurrection of His Son. With this understanding, faith and trust take a whole other dimension. God is Good!

 

[1ofthem]

The main argument about Job...was whether God allowed Satan to test him or not. And according to the word of God he did. Satan asked permission not once but twice. First God said ok but don't touch him. Job didn't fall, so then Satan came back and asked him to let him afflict his body...Then God said ok but spare his life.

If we deny that God allowed it then to me we are denying what the word of God says plainly.

 

[Depleted]

Joaniemarie, you agree fully with the post of your friend. If you would read Job chapter 2 you would recognize that God allowed Satan to attack Job with what Satan want; except to take Jobs life. God allowed it! If you deny this then you deny Gods word.
Another example Paul asked the Lord 3 times to remove the thorn in his flesh. And what the Lord answered? My grace should be enough for you. The Lord allowed the thorn in Pauls yyflesh, whatever it was. And Pauls reaction? He accept it without mourning ore blameing the Lord.
Paul had more expierince with the Lord then somebody of us. He was for shure not lacking on faith. And he taught also nowhere about the physical healing is in the atonement.

The startling part for me at the beginning of Job was God didn't just "allow it." He started it. Lucifer didn't come to God to talk about Job. God brought Job up to Lucifer. He incited Lucifer. God wasn't the unwilling king in this. He instigated this for a good purpose. And yet, he did no evil, because Lucifer didn't have to torment Job.

 

[wolfwint]

I totally get your frustration, but try to avoid snapping back at someone who cast stones at you. I am speaking to myself here too. It is carnal nature to lash out but it is our Savior's example to accept persecution. Jesus didn't say from where it would come. I think it is unfortunate more people don't read the Book of Acts and understand the authority of Jesus Christ is the same now as it was then. It is a form of unbelief and a sin, which Jesus was repeatedly frustrated with his disciples.

The examples of healing are numerous right now, as I am sure you understand. There is so much emotion entangled in this subject and some may be exponentially affected by non-healing. Many associate a death of a loved one as God's will to take them. I certainly don't want to kick anyone when they are down, but praying passively is not praying with faith and one shouldn't expect results. "If it's your will" prayers are exactly that, passive.

I pray that others will see the amazing wonders God has given us with the death and resurrection of His Son. With this understanding, faith and trust take a whole other dimension. God is Good!

I dont understand you Undoubting, you see Joaniemarie as a victom of persecution, from believers ? Nobody on this thread doubt that our Lord Jesus heals today! Joaniemarie doubting that Job 2 the word of God. Buti it is clear written that God allowed satan to treat with Job as he wishes. Thats is what I as a believer of Jesus Christ can not Support, as well I can not Support from the scripture and also not from the reality that Physical healing is in the atonement. This is clear against the word of God. And then to say we are persecuting Joaniemarie thats strange. Ore do you have the same view as Joaniemarie have?

 

[Undoubting]

I dont understand you Undoubting, you see Joaniemarie as a victom of persecution, from believers ? Nobody on this thread doubt that our Lord Jesus heals today! Joaniemarie doubting that Job 2 the word of God. Buti it is clear written that God allowed satan to treat with Job as he wishes. Thats is what I as a believer of Jesus Christ can not Support, as well I can not Support from the scripture and also not from the reality that Physical healing is in the atonement. This is clear against the word of God. And then to say we are persecuting Joaniemarie thats strange. Ore do you have the same view as Joaniemarie have?

Maybe I misunderstood (my head has been congested), but I thought she was reacting to another (DJ2) regarding healing not being attainable under the authority of Christ Jesus. To be attacked for that, if that was the case, would be a form of persecution/unbelief (maybe a little liberally).

Regarding Job, God absolutely allowed (more like encouraged) Satan to test Job, I agree. This is absolutely clear to me and should be without question. Although, I don't have the common perspective that God wanted to show Satan that he couldn't crack Job. I now understand it was to show Job about works are not the answer by themselves.

My apologies if I missed the point of the conversation. I probably should wait until my head is clear, but I love talking about Jesus.

 

[LPT]

Job was without blame in the law, but the whole point of his tribulation was so he could understand the underlying message that works are not what God seeks in us. Job did not have a relationship with God, he had a vending machine and he thought all he had to do was punch in the correct number code. Job's painstakingly difficult dilemma took so long for him to understand because he couldn't reconcile his notion that works=favor. He viewed God as an employer, not a Father.

Job is but one of many examples of God seeking a relationship with us. The Israelites had many lessons in this regard and still could not get it. All but a few, that is.

how did you come to this conclusion with what verses from scriptures.

 

[BenFTW]

How do you, who oppose healing as a promise, reconcile your belief system that healing is not guaranteed with people in the Bible having faith to be healed? You're telling me that I can't have faith to be healed because it isn't a promise, but this is contradictory to scripture where people had faith to be healed (and were healed).

You have an apparent contradiction that, when considered, defeats your argument because it goes contrary to God's word.

If we cannot expect to be healed (because, according to you, we have no promises, guarantee, His word, etc) then how is it even possible to follow a biblical precedent of having faith in order to be healed?

 

[Depleted]

How do you, who oppose healing as a promise, reconcile your belief system that healing is not guaranteed with people in the Bible having faith to be healed? You're telling me that I can't have faith to be healed because it isn't a promise, but this is contradictory to scripture where people had faith to be healed (and were healed).

You have an apparent contradiction that, when considered, defeats your argument because it goes contrary to God's word.

If we cannot expect to be healed (because, according to you, we have no promises, guarantee, His word, etc) then how is it even possible to follow a biblical precedent of having faith in order to be healed?

That would be a very good discussion to have on here, if you ever find someone who opposes healing.

And yet, your apparent contradiction is you do believe God heals, just as long as people eat the right diet, exercise and live just right... otherwise, the person will have to have heart surgery in his 20s. I think that's a bigger contradiction, however I sure would love to meet someone who opposes healing to see you argue that one out with him/her.

 

[BenFTW]

That would be a very good discussion to have on here, if you ever find someone who opposes healing.

And yet, your apparent contradiction is you do believe God heals, just as long as people eat the right diet, exercise and live just right... otherwise, the person will have to have heart surgery in his 20s. I think that's a bigger contradiction, however I sure would love to meet someone who opposes healing to see you argue that one out with him/her.

Who did I say opposes healing? Where did I say they oppose healing? I said that they oppose "healing as a promise" or as a guarantee (as others have stated). Most of you guys believe God still heals today. I am just trying to articulate things in such a way that allows you to pause for a moment and see the apparent contradiction of such a belief system (that healing isn't a promise, guarantee, God's word, etc).

In respect to diet, exercise, and living just right that is a matter of caring for our temple (of which I am failing badly, lol). God can heal someone of lung cancer, for example, but if they just pick up another pack of cigarettes from the store they are repeating the cycle. Not saying God won't heal them again, but it goes along with "faith without works is dead" premise.