Healing through the Son

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm okay with us not agreeing, if we only listen and hang out with people we agree with there isn't much for us to learn. Part of iron sharpening iron.

But I'm not sure we are far off.

I have personally seen God reveal Himself to people through Healing. I didn't say and I don't believe it is the ONLY way. However in this specific Scripture that I am referring to Jesus did reveal Himself as Healer. But where I do not agree is the idea that God NO LONGER reveals Himself as Healer. And there is no where in Scripture that I know of that says this is the case.

I do appreciate that you feel that I am a man full of wisdom. I feel that you are also. But I believe we are wise to the degree that we are lead by the Spirit. So I pray that I and you are continually lead by Him.

No one has stated in here that He never heals anymore. No one has ever stated it. That's not what the debate is about. In fact, it's the exact opposite of that that's being debated - people who say He ALWAYS physically heals people if you have enough trust.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I lost my mom to Cancer, I lost my step dad to a stroke and prayed over him all day and night. I have lost numerous family members to sickness, but I still believe God heals today. I still pray for the sick today. And I have seen people healed of numerous things. I don't understand it all, but that's okay. I do the best I can with what He has given me.

Everyone in here believes God still heals today.

 

[PennEd]

I simply believe what Scripture says even if my experiences don't always line up to it. I will aways preach faith and focus on faith, not to condemn people as I have seen others do. But because Scripture teaches that faith alone pleases Him. And He desires us to be faithful when He returns.

And I agree, saying someone isn't healed because they don't have enough faith can be dangerous, but equally dangerous is teaching that God doesn't heal today. It is because of theology like this that many people don't have a personal relationship with God. They think He is only His Book. They read ABOUT Him, but they do not believe they can truly know Him. Yet it is Scripture that teaches us eternal life is to know Him.

We must be careful to not strain out gnats and swallow camels. I agree we must be careful to not destroy our brothers and sisters in their time of pain and sorrow, but we must balance this with an understanding of who God is. And not ignoring Scriptures because we haven't seen them.

Many people don't believe God is good because their "experiences" didn't show Him to be good. But what do we tell them? Don't let your feelings and your experiences disagree with what Scripture says. He is a mysterious God, but He is good even when we don't understand what's happening.

Do we take out the idea God is good, that God wants people to know Him, simply because some don't? I certainly hope not!

People struggle with drugs, they struggle with depression, anxiety, and fear, but when they look for freedom from these things because of this disastrous theology people point them to the world. Even though Scripture says that the Kingdom of God is not word, but also of power. Yes we need compassion, but equally we need the power of God.

I struggled with depression, I was told I would be on depression drugs for my entire life, I used to struggle with anxiety, I jumped out of 3 moving cars, spent time in a hospital for it, yet through all of this God showed up and God set me free. Would you have me stay silent about what God did in my life and to sit quietly by instead of inspiring hope in others for what He can do, simply because some people mysteriously don't experience it? I refuse. I refuse to let the testimonies of God be silenced out of fear of offending a few. And I refuse to neuter the power of God because some people think it's a prosperity gospel.

Please address what I am saying and not what I am not saying. I pray that we could equally have compassion and faith. That we could find a balance between the two instead of tripping over both ditches.

Again, I see a disconnect with what you are saying, to what myself and others are saying. It may be too harsh to say you are erecting strawmen, but you're kinda NOT reading what I, and some others are trying to convey.

WHO is saying that God CAN'T or DOESN'T STILL heal? I literally can't think of a single person here who said or believes that.

THIS is what we believe: [h=1]Romans 8:28 New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.

so we live in a fallen, broken world, and that includes the flesh that we who are born again inhabit. Yet we know that will use our infirmities for His Glory and our ultimate good. This means, as Paul said, it don't matter what state we find ourselves in, RICH, POOR, SICK, HEALTHY, PERSECUTED, SAFE, or you name it... WE SHOULD BE CONTENT.

I have used this example before, but I think it is powerful enough to repeat. Several yrs ago a wonderful sister in Christ, died of breast cancer, and went to be with Him. She suffered with this disease for a decade. EVERYWHERE she went she glorified the Name of Jesus. Countless Drs. nurses, hospital staff, patients, and visitors of patients were eternally impacted by the witness of this woman. All along She, and many others BELIEVED, and prayed to the Lord for healing. The Lord had other, MORE WONDERFUL plans for her.

On the night she died, her husband found her with an incredible smile on her face, almost glowing.
Her faith in Christ EVEN though she wasn't physically healed was a FAR greater witness to the people she affected than if she was healed.

Can you imagine her husband reading threads like this, and again, I'm not saying you are saying this, that she wasn't healed because of a lack of faith?

I am not going to dig through the scores of these types of threads searching, but I have seen those words said verbatim. And when you dig, not even too deep, in all of them, they say it as well.

The Lord does heal. He has healed us all of various illnesses, injuries, maladies, and all sorts of infirmities throughout our lifetime. Only a fool would believe He has not.And we must praise and Glorify Him for that. I'm so very glad He has freed you from your depression.

But we inhabit a body of death, and certainly in some sense we need to embrace that it is actually a blessing and a mercy that the Lord allows it to die off, ere we become like Adam and Eve would have had they eaten of the tree of Life, and lived forever in their body of death.

So peace to you brother. And may we once again get on the same wavelength!

[/FONT]

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It's not always said verbatim either. Sometimes it's more the attitude of...oh, you just don't know yet of Christs completed work for you. Or...you just haven't seen the manifestation yet, but you will if you have faith.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Let's look at the facts.

We still see healings all through Church history (even today), we see the disciples healed the sick, we see Jesus make a promise that any who believe in Him would do the same, we see in James the command to pray for sick believers not the lost. We see gifts of the Spirit which are still available include healing and miracles.

Yes they are signs to point to Christ, and it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me. He is still pointing to Himself and revealing Himself however He wants to. Even if some people don't like it.

And rather than celebrate what God is doing today, they point at it and say oh it's the Devil, exactly what they did when Jesus walked the Earth. The religious people couldn't see past their traditions. And they missed Christ. Even going so far as to attribute the Devil for His miracles.

But if we look at the facts, we also have to say that sometimes, for whatever reason, He doesn't heal. It doesn't stop us trusting Him. It doesn't stop us praying for healing for people.

I still think you are not understanding the debate.

It is bad to say He always heals everyone of sickness (first of all, it wouldn't be true. You yourself have stated He chose to not heal two family members). It is equally bad to say He NEVER heals any more. Both of those extremes are not truth.

I saw Joanie just state that she has never said God ALWAYS wills to physically heal someone on earth. Maybe she never WAS stating that He would. But it did come across that way many times.

 

[joaniemarie]

But if we look at the facts, we also have to say that sometimes, for whatever reason, He doesn't heal. It doesn't stop us trusting Him. It doesn't stop us praying for healing for people.

I still think you are not understanding the debate.

It is bad to say He always heals everyone of sickness (first of all, it wouldn't be true. You yourself have stated He chose to not heal two family members). It is equally bad to say He NEVER heals any more. Both of those extremes are not truth.

I saw Joanie just state that she has never said God ALWAYS wills to physically heal someone on earth. Maybe she never WAS stating that He would. But it did come across that way many times.

Correction stunned., I never said it is not God's will to ALWAYS heal. I believe it is God's will that we be healed and it's God's will that all would come to repentance but not all will. I don't understand why everyone is not healed but that doesn't change what the Bible says about this matter or many others I don't yet understand.

I also believe God never sickness to teach lessons. He gives the Word and His Spirit to do that. I also don't agree with the status quo here on cc about the book of Job.

 

[joaniemarie]

I simply believe what Scripture says even if my experiences don't always line up to it. I will aways preach faith and focus on faith, not to condemn people as I have seen others do. But because Scripture teaches that faith alone pleases Him. And He desires us to be faithful when He returns.

And I agree, saying someone isn't healed because they don't have enough faith can be dangerous, but equally dangerous is teaching that God doesn't heal today. It is because of theology like this that many people don't have a personal relationship with God. They think He is only His Book. They read ABOUT Him, but they do not believe they can truly know Him. Yet it is Scripture that teaches us eternal life is to know Him.

We must be careful to not strain out gnats and swallow camels. I agree we must be careful to not destroy our brothers and sisters in their time of pain and sorrow, but we must balance this with an understanding of who God is. And not ignoring Scriptures because we haven't seen them.

Many people don't believe God is good because their "experiences" didn't show Him to be good. But what do we tell them? Don't let your feelings and your experiences disagree with what Scripture says. He is a mysterious God, but He is good even when we don't understand what's happening.

Do we take out the idea God is good, that God wants people to know Him, simply because some don't? I certainly hope not!

People struggle with drugs, they struggle with depression, anxiety, and fear, but when they look for freedom from these things because of this disastrous theology people point them to the world. Even though Scripture says that the Kingdom of God is not word, but also of power. Yes we need compassion, but equally we need the power of God.

I struggled with depression, I was told I would be on depression drugs for my entire life, I used to struggle with anxiety, I jumped out of 3 moving cars, spent time in a hospital for it, yet through all of this God showed up and God set me free. Would you have me stay silent about what God did in my life and to sit quietly by instead of inspiring hope in others for what He can do, simply because some people mysteriously don't experience it? I refuse. I refuse to let the testimonies of God be silenced out of fear of offending a few. And I refuse to neuter the power of God because some people think it's a prosperity gospel.

Please address what I am saying and not what I am not saying. I pray that we could equally have compassion and faith. That we could find a balance between the two instead of tripping over both ditches.

I agree with this post.

 

[joaniemarie]

Mark 2:5And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”6Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, 7“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts?9Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’?10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— 11“I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”

Just as Christ in the flesh revealed Himself through healing, He does so today. And to say that He isn't the same today, makes me sad. God cares about the whole thing: spirit, soul, and body. But gnostic thought has spread through the church thinking that if one focuses on the material, they must not care about the spiritual. And that's a lie. It all matters to God, we do ALL things unto Him.

In fact, in the OT God got upset when someone inquired of a doctor, before inquiring of Him. He is our all in all. Nothing against doctors, I love them, but I do believe God should be our first choice.

I agree with this post too

 

[joaniemarie]

No one has said here that if you are sick you don't have enough faith.... If you have tribulation you don't have enough faith., if you can't pay the bills you don't have enough faith., if you are dealing with depression you don't have enough faith., if you are not sure how to proceed in life choices you don't have enough faith. I don't agree with those who do say this because these are things we all to some degree deal with each day.

I believe we are learning to walk in the truth and the promises Jesus paid for us to have and it takes TIME to walk it out by faith each day. None of us have arrived 100% But I see there are things to learn to access by faith each day. And each day by faith the Bible says we are to prove what is that GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT WILL OF GOD.

It takes time for us to grow in that each day. Each day we are supposed to be being transformed by the renewing of our minds so that we each INDIVIDUALLY in the power of the Holy Spirit prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:2
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

 

[joaniemarie]

Everyone in here believes God still heals today.

Yes., but not everyone here believes it is God's will to heal everyone today. Many believe God sends sickness to teach lessons or to mature them. And since that is what some believe that is their choice I have no argument with anyone who does. I don't agree with that interpretation but that is my choice as well.

I believe Jesus paid for my well being and healing is one of the MANY things I'm learning He did in the atonement. It is God's will that I grow up in the faith and become more and more like Jesus always walking by faith and not by sight. But I fail at times and even now working through my issues in a certain area in life that has to deal with healing. Yet I also know there is no condemnation as I learn to follow the dictates of the Spirit so I don't fulfill the dictates of my flesh. This is a work in progress.

 

[joaniemarie]

I'm heading out today but a good verse that applies is Phil.2:12-13


Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, [SUP][c][/SUP]with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).
[SUP]
13 [/SUP][Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while [SUP][d][/SUP]effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and [SUP][e][/SUP]delight.

 

[Blain]

Whether God gives sickness to teach a lesson or not if one does learn and grow in him from sickness I would say his will was done in the matter. I do know there were several times God plagued people in the OT to get them to repent and change their ways but I haven't seen this in the NT.
And you know a lot of times he doesn't heal people directly a lot of times he uses us to be his hands, people who have the gift of healing know this better than anyone. Personally I have always wanted to have the gift of healing but I don't simply wish to heal the physical illness and wounds but the inner ones as well, sometimes the inner wounds and illnesses are the worst ones

 

[Depleted]

It is not that you're setting God on a high pedestal, but rather there is a false sense of humility in your posts when you always say that others are all about "me" instead of God. It isn't their fault God has made promises that pertain to this life, and they wish to obtain them (that part, is their fault haha).

Seeking healing, wealth, and well-being are not bad endeavors, but they should accompany seeking first the Kingdom. Seeking the Lord's will in your life and walking in the good works He has prepared. God makes promises in these areas, and because He does, we may have faith. Without these promises we have a dwindling hope, but with them we are encouraged to persevere.

You see this vase with dandelions in it.

And constantly focus on the dandelions in it.

God's people are the dandelions, but we're excited he's chosen us for the beauty that is his nature, not our nature.

There is no hope in your gospel. It's weed-centered.

And you too might want to read Acts, because you talk about healing, wealth and well-being, while the apostles gave up all of those for "the vase." Paul was even warned by a prophet about what he would face in Jerusalem. A true prophet. He went anyway because the Lord is worth more.

How high you think of yourself. And how low is your god. God did promise something to those who would not trust him -- eternal damnation! Is that on your "You owe me, God" list of promises too?

 

[Depleted]

Do you have a clue what the word “clarification” means? No, not at all.

When you clarify something, or make a clarification, you restate it in different words, simplify it or make it easier to understand.

You say this all the time, but show an utter lack of understanding of the word “clarification.”

What you are doing is:


Reposting to repost.


Really, the height of laziness, to cut and paste a post that isn’t yours, then repost it over and over.

If you actually changed the post around, made it simplier or PUT IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS, then you could say you “reposted for clarification.”

Instead, you have just demonstrated your abysmal ignorance of a common English word. Is that why you can’t write your own posts? Because you don’t speak English well? Nah! I’m going with the cult follower, who doesn’t read the Bible or know what it says enough to speak for yourself.

Or for that matter, you don’t know enough to read the rebuttals many people have made of your false doctrines, explaining how and why everything you are saying is not from God, and is bad doctrine, damaging doctrine, and a lie from Satan.

Reposting "for clarification."

 

[Depleted]

Mark 2:5And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”6Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, 7“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts?9Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’?10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— 11“I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”

Just as Christ in the flesh revealed Himself through healing, He does so today. And to say that He isn't the same today, makes me sad. God cares about the whole thing: spirit, soul, and body. But gnostic thought has spread through the church thinking that if one focuses on the material, they must not care about the spiritual. And that's a lie. It all matters to God, we do ALL things unto Him.

In fact, in the OT God got upset when someone inquired of a doctor, before inquiring of Him. He is our all in all. Nothing against doctors, I love them, but I do believe God should be our first choice.

The part you ignore to preach your man-made God.

Act 21:8-14 On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.

While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, "Thus says the Holy Spirit, 'This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'"

When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem.

Then Paul answered, "What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, "Let the will of the Lord be done."

 

[Depleted]

Meekness. Just a suggestion or something you may want to ask the Lord about. Your post, right here, shows no level of compassion or love, it is sharp and cuts and does not mend. Why must you attempt to humiliate and denigrate? Joanie is your sister in Christ, a fellow believer in Jesus Christ. Not your punching bag.

Not the first time I'm saying this to you. Nor the first time I've said it to many WoFers, but time to say it again.

Passive-aggressive is not meekness. It's conniving, sniveling, and under-handed bullying.

The problem you guys have is some of us are openly aggressive, so call you on it, instead of bow to it.

You're not our siblings (yet.)

 

[Depleted]

But if we look at the facts, we also have to say that sometimes, for whatever reason, He doesn't heal. It doesn't stop us trusting Him. It doesn't stop us praying for healing for people.

I still think you are not understanding the debate.

It is bad to say He always heals everyone of sickness (first of all, it wouldn't be true. You yourself have stated He chose to not heal two family members). It is equally bad to say He NEVER heals any more. Both of those extremes are not truth.

I saw Joanie just state that she has never said God ALWAYS wills to physically heal someone on earth. Maybe she never WAS stating that He would. But it did come across that way many times.

And, for sure, her message it is always this...

It's not always said verbatim either. Sometimes it's more the attitude of...oh, you just don't know yet of Christs completed work for you. Or...you just haven't seen the manifestation yet, but you will if you have faith.

Paul preached a long-winded message to the disciples one time. (Well, I'm sure he did it more than once, but I'm talking about this one time.) It started after dinner, and kept going until midnight. One lad in the room fell asleep, and then fell out the third floor window to his death.

They went down to him, prayed over him, he arose, happiness, and everyone parted ways after that. God miraculously regenerated that boy. They cared enough about him to pray for him, and didn't even badger him about falling asleep during church. They were happy, and yet it was about God, not about the healing.

After Jesus healed people he told them to do strange things like "sin no more" or "go to the temple."

Think about that. If you were blind or crippled since birth, and someone came along and healed you instantly, out of all the things you'd want to do first, where dies "sin no more" and "go to the temple" fit on your list?

As someone who is disabled and truly misses doing "normal" things, got to say, higher on my list is taking laundry out of the dryer all at once, or simply picking up and moving heavy plant containers, but mostly I want to jump one more hopscotch game chalked into the sidewalk. Honestly, my first thoughts aren't toward God. They're toward stuff I miss.

Yet "sin no more" and "go to the temple" is where Jesus' head was at. Yes, he cared about the person, but even he pointed to God!

In the WoF mindset, (Joan's mindset, Ben's mindset, Laura's mindset), it's all about God pointing to the WoFer.

 

[Depleted]

Correction stunned., I never said it is not God's will to ALWAYS heal. I believe it is God's will that we be healed and it's God's will that all would come to repentance but not all will. I don't understand why everyone is not healed but that doesn't change what the Bible says about this matter or many others I don't yet understand.

I also believe God never sickness to teach lessons. He gives the Word and His Spirit to do that. I also don't agree with the status quo here on cc about the book of Job.

You really don't believe God will heal all. I do hear that from you.

But I also hear why -- because not everyone has enough faith, because they haven't walked the same road you walked, because they haven't learned as much as you, because they don't believe the same teachers you believe, because you are different, because they, because they, because they. Basically it comes down to the same thing -- because I am walking better than they are, and God owes me!!!

And, you have no idea what anyone here thinks about the Book of Job because you won't touch that with a 20 yard pole! That would require you actually speaking for yourself and listening to others who do not have YouTube sermons, world-trotting healing ministries, and tons and tons of garbage sermons on their websites, and buy-their-books. Mostly because you have not studied the Book of Job, and fear proving that.

 

[Depleted]

Yes., but not everyone here believes it is God's will to heal everyone today. Many believe God sends sickness to teach lessons or to mature them. And since that is what some believe that is their choice I have no argument with anyone who does. I don't agree with that interpretation but that is my choice as well.

I believe Jesus paid for my well being and healing is one of the MANY things I'm learning He did in the atonement. It is God's will that I grow up in the faith and become more and more like Jesus always walking by faith and not by sight. But I fail at times and even now working through my issues in a certain area in life that has to deal with healing. Yet I also know there is no condemnation as I learn to follow the dictates of the Spirit so I don't fulfill the dictates of my flesh. This is a work in progress.

Ah, another one. "Because everyone does not believe God does," which is quite funny since you're talking to a group who most certainly does believe God can and does! So God is inept, even for those who know he heals? Wow.

 

[joaniemarie]

Sorry for the small print., this is from my email and I don't know how to fix it. Not an expert poster yet.


I believe with all my heart (even when some Christians don't) that we need faith in this world for everything in life. The righteous shall live by faith. Jesus said "According to your faith - let it be done to you." ( Matt. 9:29 ) He also said "Your faith has made you whole." ( Mark 5:34; Mark 10:52 )


Paul said that we have access in this grace in which we stand by faith. Rom. 5:2


If other people are saying we don't have faith because we don't get healed.... That statement can be true or not true. Christians may be standing in faith that Jesus is their Healer and because the manifestation hasn't come in the natural world yet - that doesn't mean that they are not in faith.


It could mean too that they don't have the faith to receive what Christ has provided. Whether they are in faith or not in faith - we leave that in the hands of the Holy Spirit as He reveals the things of Christ to all of us. The answer to unbelief is the hearing of Christ. Rom. 10:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).


There are some things that I just don't have the faith for that I see in the scriptures but as I grow in Christ - they become more real to me. I don't blame others in the body of Christ for encouraging me to trust in the Lord even if I'm not experiencing it now.


For example: Jesus said that we would have peace. If I am not experiencing peace in my life in a situation - it is because I am believing something else other than what Christ has done and the reality of His life that is in me. I need the renewing of my mind by the Holy Spirit in that area of truth.


I don't blame or attack or insult others in the body of Christ because they are encouraging me in the Lord's peace that is available to me in every situation.