Has the second coming occurred already?

[Jimbone]

Did go away I am sick of your childish attacks

You would not believe anything I tell you you have proven that. I am done good day

Oh my goodness, my childish attacks? Go back and reread brother, I have not attacked you at all, in fact I've gone out of my way to be nice and temper these hard subjects with olive branches sprinkled through out. You're just painted into a corner with no way to answer my question, and I won't just stop asking it and ignore it, so you say I'm attacking you. I am going to make my first "attack" on you right now and call you a liar for saying- "If you want to discuss, Discuss. COme at me again with the nonsense like you did in yoru first sentence ad I will discontinue our conversation. I refuse ot converse wth people who make silly remarks trying to belittle a person, instead of just sticking to the word."
and the I came with a tight little summery of how I find my view in scripture and then asked you about the 3rd temple again, so you just accuse me more then hide behind "you're attacking me". You just say I'm full of nonsense and that I'm belittling you. Your a liar because I did try to have a conversation and you tucked tail and started pouring out accusations. I have to admit I see you in a completely different way than I did before, you come across as very arrogant, close minded, and unable to even have a rational conversation unless you're leading it like you know everything. One disagreement and it's "AHHH WWAAA, you're attacking me". It's very weak and I'm not impressed. You boast that "I've been studying this 30 years", then refuse to answer 1 simple issue I bring up that crushes your whole view. Yep I'm not impressed. When you can put your big boy pants on and actually discuss this 3rd temple subject I'm ready, but until you do I'm going to assume your horrified by it and refuse to answer, and EVERYONE reading in here can see you don't have an answer at all for it, as well as the lack of my attacking at all. So you guys can high five each other about the "every eye will see Him coming on the clouds", destroying the view that this happened already, but until you can answer this 3rd temple question, all you've proved, if you're even right, is that both our views are wrong, so not much to celebrate.

 

[Jimbone]

Before the Lord's ascension, the disciples asked the question, because the kingdom of Israel had not been restored yet as promised.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Yes He did, but was that all He ever said about the coming judgement and the end of the age? When you start putting everything together it tells us pretty dang clearly the time frame, and Jesus words came to pass exactly how He said they would. Even taking into account non-Christian testimony of the 70 AD sacking of Jerusalem matches exactly what Jesus foretold. This is why it makes me wonder #1 why it meets so much resistance when it matches so much better, and #2 why it took me so long for me to even hear this case made for this view at all.

I didn't just go pick a label and decide to join it, I was taught this same pre-trib rapture thing just like everyone, pre-trib was all I ever heard at all taught in church or even online and I had no reason to start to doubt it outside of these verses that kept coming up and really sticking out to me, then I heard it, was like God led me right to it, but this absurd idea that maybe Jesus did return in judgement of the covenant breakers already, and maybe we weren't just waiting for this world to "go to hell in an hand basket", and rather were commanded to go and make disciples of all nations, what if Jesus is King right now and this is the time when our conquering, victorious, and seated King is putting all enemies under His feet? This is where I am with Him and must share these things. For His glory and truth's sake, but no matter if you are proclaiming Jesus as King Now in this way, or pleading for souls to come to Him before it's too late and the end comes, you are doing these things for His glory and to share truth with the lost and I praise His name for all His children, and I've held both views since being truly reborn so I KNOW you can be saved and believe either one.

I know this is a hard subject and I see I really made Eternal upset with me, but I was not intending anything to be mean or ugly, and went back and reread my comments and still didn't see any "attacks" on him, to be honest I did see a few from him to me, and I did say he was being a crybaby which wasn't nice at all, but man these truths have to be faced and if I'm wrong I want to know, I do not think everyone else feels the same though. We tend hunker down to protect our sacred cows when lout mistakes in belief are brought to light, we all do.

 

[John146]

For His glory and truth's sake, but no matter if you are proclaiming Jesus as King Now in this way, or pleading for souls to come to Him before it's too late and the end comes, you are doing these things for His glory and to share truth with the lost and I praise His name for all His children, and I've held both views since being truly reborn so I KNOW you can be saved and believe either one.

Amen to this!

 

[bojack]

Yes He did, but was that all He ever said about the coming judgement and the end of the age? When you start putting everything together it tells us pretty dang clearly the time frame, and Jesus words came to pass exactly how He said they would. Even taking into account non-Christian testimony of the 70 AD sacking of Jerusalem matches exactly what Jesus foretold. This is why it makes me wonder #1 why it meets so much resistance when it matches so much better, and #2 why it took me so long for me to even hear this case made for this view at all.

I didn't just go pick a label and decide to join it, I was taught this same pre-trib rapture thing just like everyone, pre-trib was all I ever heard at all taught in church or even online and I had no reason to start to doubt it outside of these verses that kept coming up and really sticking out to me, then I heard it, was like God led me right to it, but this absurd idea that maybe Jesus did return in judgement of the covenant breakers already, and maybe we weren't just waiting for this world to "go to hell in an hand basket", and rather were commanded to go and make disciples of all nations, what if Jesus is King right now and this is the time when our conquering, victorious, and seated King is putting all enemies under His feet? This is where I am with Him and must share these things. For His glory and truth's sake, but no matter if you are proclaiming Jesus as King Now in this way, or pleading for souls to come to Him before it's too late and the end comes, you are doing these things for His glory and to share truth with the lost and I praise His name for all His children, and I've held both views since being truly reborn so I KNOW you can be saved and believe either one.

I know this is a hard subject and I see I really made Eternal upset with me, but I was not intending anything to be mean or ugly, and went back and reread my comments and still didn't see any "attacks" on him, to be honest I did see a few from him to me, and I did say he was being a crybaby which wasn't nice at all, but man these truths have to be faced and if I'm wrong I want to know, I do not think everyone else feels the same though. We tend hunker down to protect our sacred cows when lout mistakes in belief are brought to light, we all do.

Around 67-68 AD the Jews began their revolt against Rome and which ever ones weren't crucified and killed were dispersed throughout the world .. The Romans destroyed the temple 70 AD ..

What day and hour would you say it happened ? What are we watching for ?
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

[garee]

Textbook Gnosticism.

???

Gnosticism or rightly dividing the signified language of God called the hidden manna in chapter 2 ? What does hidden manna signify . Gnosticism? Or rightly dividing?

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Jimbone]

Around 67-68 AD the Jews began their revolt against Rome and which ever ones weren't crucified and killed were dispersed throughout the world .. The Romans destroyed the temple 70 AD ..

What day and hour would you say it happened ? What are we watching for ?
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

And He also said

32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,b but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

1 extra thought here, think about this, it is talking about the days of Noah and how one will be left and one taken away. Why do we switch who is taken and who is left behind for the rapture? The righteous inherit the earth.

And

24Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

And

63But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “He has blasphemed! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy
There are a lot of very plain verses that tell the people He was talking to that it was coming, from John the Baptist very first message God said salvation and judgement was coming. Jesus does say very specifically that it's coming withing a generation, and what do you know right within that 40 years (a generation) judgement fell on the covenant breakers that screamed "crucify Him", and “His blood be on us and on our children!”. It happened just like He said. So I understand the verse you're sharing here and agree with it, and you, nobody did know the day or hour, but when they saw they signs, and there is even historic record of the Romans surrounding the city then pulling back for some reason giving the Christians time to flee, then the Romans immediately came back and started the assault. Awfully interesting to me, and the more I did the more His word fits together so perfectly it blows my mind. That's why I share it. I know this view seem so ridiculous to those taught different their whole lives, but it has awakened me in a way In would even compare to my rebirth, not the total overnight change the same way, but it's like the entire way I view Him and His word has been jumped into overdrive, that's why I have to share, but I am also so open to listening to the other side. I want truth and to glorify our King.

 

[cv5]

???

Gnosticism or rightly dividing the signified language of God called the hidden manna in chapter 2 ? What does hidden manna signify . Gnosticism? Or rightly dividing?

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Failure to apply the prerequisite hermeneutics often leads to Gnosticism. That and failing to account for the whole Council of God. The Rapture is coming friend. Then the millennial reign with Jesus Christ on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

 

[cv5]

Around 67-68 AD the Jews began their revolt against Rome and which ever ones weren't crucified and killed were dispersed throughout the world .. The Romans destroyed the temple 70 AD ..

What day and hour would you say it happened ? What are we watching for ?
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

I need to inform you that Matt 24 and Mark 13 are speaking of the future and the abomination of desolation.
However, Luke 21 is speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem....the A of D is not mentioned.
There is much more to the story....see below. The preterists are wrong. Dead wrong.

 

[Jimbone]

I need to inform you that Matt 24 and Mark 13 are speaking of the future and the abomination of desolation.
However, Luke 21 is speaking about the destruction of Jerusalem....the A of D is not mentioned.
There is much more to the story....see below. The preterists are wrong. Dead wrong.

No you are mistaken here, Matthew was aimed at a Jewish audience, they know what the A of D was, Luke is geared towards the gentiles so he just tells them, "when the armies surround you, get out". They are speaking of the same thing. You're just mistaken in you take on this. It is the SAME THING being spoken of.

 

[cv5]

No you are mistaken here, Matthew was aimed at a Jewish audience, they know what the A of D was, Luke is geared towards the gentiles so he just tells them, "when the armies surround you, get out". They are speaking of the same thing. You're just mistaken in you take on this. It is the SAME THING being spoken of.

The A of D spoken of Daniel the prophet absolutely did not occur in 70ad. This event is future during the 70th week exactly 3-1/2years midway.

 

[dcontroversal]

If the 2nd coming of Christ has taken place already......He is a weak, inept flake of a god and the bible is just another fantasy land book that I will now use to start fires in my wood stove..........

NO it has not happened yet............and for those jokers that believe it has.....I suggest you look up the following words and then apply to the bible while actually studying it in context.

CONTEXTUAL honesty and integrity
HISTORICAL honesty and integrity
BIBLICAL honesty and integrity

especially applied unto...

a. THE SUN, MOON and STARS going DARK
b. THE powers of HEAVEN shaken
c. THE HEAVENS being rolled up as a scroll
d. Over half the human population decimated
e. The LOCUST army from the OPENED PIT of HELL tormenting men
f. The battle of GOD and MAGOG
g. ALL the dead resurrecting and ALL living saved GATHERED by the angels
f. ALL MEN hiding and attempting to HIDE from the face of HIM on the THRONE (see c)
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

It is absolute pure ignorant/idiocy to SAY it has already happened.....!!

 

[bojack]

And He also said

32“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,b but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

1 extra thought here, think about this, it is talking about the days of Noah and how one will be left and one taken away. Why do we switch who is taken and who is left behind for the rapture? The righteous inherit the earth.

And

24Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? 27For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

And

63But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65At this, the high priest tore his clothes and declared, “He has blasphemed! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy
There are a lot of very plain verses that tell the people He was talking to that it was coming, from John the Baptist very first message God said salvation and judgement was coming. Jesus does say very specifically that it's coming withing a generation, and what do you know right within that 40 years (a generation) judgement fell on the covenant breakers that screamed "crucify Him", and “His blood be on us and on our children!”. It happened just like He said. So I understand the verse you're sharing here and agree with it, and you, nobody did know the day or hour, but when they saw they signs, and there is even historic record of the Romans surrounding the city then pulling back for some reason giving the Christians time to flee, then the Romans immediately came back and started the assault. Awfully interesting to me, and the more I did the more His word fits together so perfectly it blows my mind. That's why I share it. I know this view seem so ridiculous to those taught different their whole lives, but it has awakened me in a way In would even compare to my rebirth, not the total overnight change the same way, but it's like the entire way I view Him and His word has been jumped into overdrive, that's why I have to share, but I am also so open to listening to the other side. I want truth and to glorify our King.

Thank you Jimbo, I had originally added more to that post but edited it out because I didn't want to seem pushy .. I see your point you make .. I think a generation could be 70, 80 yrs if you're strong and after that your days are full of trouble .. I agree that what you say was prophecy but not all fulfilled at all .. I don't think Rome was all nations at that time or the Jews would have had no place to flee to, yet still cursed .. Each Christian man in every generation for 2000 yrs has died awaiting the resurrection even in their graves until now, us too if the Lord tarries .. We will all see Him when He returns .. I personally don't think we're waiting on a set day or hr but rather a number to be fulfilled , my hint is Gods answer to the martyred who ask God how much longer until He takes vengeance on their blood .. Jesus came at His appointed time but has not taken us out of the world yet .. God's wrath and judgment has not been taken on all the godless, yet it's in the bank .. imo the second temple meant nothing but a memory, the first temple meant nothing after the Jews took on idolatry and God had it destroyed .. There's a myth that Jeremiah hid the Ark from Babylon/exile and that it has recently been recovered and in the hands of the 3rd temple rebuild rabbis .. It will still not help them except to prove to them they still have no leg to stand on .. Israel and the world are on final notice as we speak . The End is near and birth pangs are increasing imo .. And I also don't think Simon bar Jonah was ever in Rome

 

[Jimbone]

If the 2nd coming of Christ has taken place already......He is a weak, inept flake of a god and the bible is just another fantasy land book that I will now use to start fires in my wood stove..........

NO it has not happened yet............and for those jokers that believe it has.....I suggest you look up the following words and then apply to the bible while actually studying it in context.

CONTEXTUAL honesty and integrity
HISTORICAL honesty and integrity
BIBLICAL honesty and integrity

especially applied unto...

a. THE SUN, MOON and STARS going DARK
b. THE powers of HEAVEN shaken
c. THE HEAVENS being rolled up as a scroll
d. Over half the human population decimated
e. The LOCUST army from the OPENED PIT of HELL tormenting men
f. The battle of GOD and MAGOG
g. ALL the dead resurrecting and ALL living saved GATHERED by the angels
f. ALL MEN hiding and attempting to HIDE from the face of HIM on the THRONE (see c)
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

It is absolute pure ignorant/idiocy to SAY it has already happened.....!!

Okay lets say you're right, since you come at this as if it's such a silly notion, that without one single question or any kind of accurate representation of a well presented case for any of these things on your "list of offhand dismissal" to be seen. Lets say you've convinced me with your very well thought out and loving rebuttal saying that anyone that holds these views is unintelligent, dishonest, and without any integrity. Nice way to represent our King by the way and I personally appreciate the direct attack on my character brother. So please all wise elder let me understand the "right" belief from you. Is this Abomination of Desolation spoken of in Daniel, Matthew, and Luke going to take place in the future?

 

[Jimbone]

@Dc
By the way I love you use the "heavens rolled up like a scroll" example as having not have taken place when it was the same language used in Isaiah 34 to describe the coming judgement on Babylon-
3Their slain will be left unburied, and the stench of their corpses will rise; the mountains will flow with their blood. 4All the stars of heaven will be dissolved. The skies will be rolled up like a scroll, and all their stars will fall like withered leaves on the vine, and foliage on the fig tree. 5When My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens, then it will come down upon Edom, upon the people I have devoted to destruction.

So I guess that didn't happen yet either right? Or maybe you don't understand Apocalyptic Literature as well as you maybe could. Just saying.

 

[garee]

Failure to apply the prerequisite hermeneutics often leads to Gnosticism. That and failing to account for the whole Council of God. The Rapture is coming friend. Then the millennial reign with Jesus Christ on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

the whole Council of God.The rapture is occurring .To be absent under the sun is to be present in the heavens above.

The beginning of the last days the millennial reign Christ in us the power of God not of us began when he said it was fished the promised glory spoken of in 1 peter 1:11 all of the shadows that spoke of a suffering savior came to the time of reformation . I time like never before or ever gain . God introducing himself to the whole world all the nations as the Holy Father of Spirit life. Previously hid in parables using a outward Jew to signify the unseen things of God called faith.

Those resurrection gates will not be closed until the "last day" the "day of the Lord" a unknown represented by the metaphor "thousand years". "Thousand years" used 9 time in the bible and not once used in a literal sense. And especially with the book of Revelation which introduces the hermeneutics in the opening statement as not only inspired but signified it as it is written . Using the temporal things seen to give us the hidden manna or the understanding of the parable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ has not returned
mid he has he is a liar as is the HS who inspired the word

 

[Dino246]

This discussion does more to reveal what is in your hearts than to reveal what has or has not happened.

For many of you, it ain't pretty. This is not a salvation issue.

 

[Brandnewday]

Some sects of Christianity believe that Christ’s second coming had already occurred. This is in conjunction with the Olivet Discourse and specifically with chapter 24 from Matthew’s Gospel(Christ returned around 70 AD prior to the destruction of Jerusalem). Is there validation to any of this? Is there any historical evidence to support such? Has the revelation of Christs second coming being a future event based on tradition and misinterpretation? Is Preterism correct?

Thoughts?

If the second coming has happened already? It explains American and global politics.
And it should make everyone here a little worried.

 

[Aerials1978]

1 The Lord is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?
Psalm 27:1

 

[Jackson123]

Second coming happen after great tribulation, Jesus come oN the air and rapture happen

Than follow by 1000 years kingdom.