Matt! i apologize for the intrusion, just wanted to say i'm so pleased to see you again 
-
1
- Show all
Has the law been put aside? If so, when?
- Thread starter Sketch
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hey, thanks for remembering me! It's been many, many years. Good to be back, though!
The law is what defines sin.
The law without Jesus = condemnation and death.
By faith + the Spirit = a new life of obedience.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
There is 2 ways (and more) people take this.....
1...The law was fulfilled by Jesus so we are free to break it. Jesus kept it perfectly and paid the price and gives us His righteousness. Breaking the law is acceptable.
2.. Jesus fulfilled it and paid the price for breaking it and we are freed from the penalty. Thankful for His grace we obey the law.
The law without Jesus = condemnation and death.
By faith + the Spirit = a new life of obedience.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
There is 2 ways (and more) people take this.....
1...The law was fulfilled by Jesus so we are free to break it. Jesus kept it perfectly and paid the price and gives us His righteousness. Breaking the law is acceptable.
2.. Jesus fulfilled it and paid the price for breaking it and we are freed from the penalty. Thankful for His grace we obey the law.
He kept all laws perfectly?
The laws contained in ordanaces and the civil laws and the moral laws.
The laws that past away were the ones that were contained in ordanaces.
There are many references to obeying the moral law after the death of Jesus.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has all been fulfilled? No
Satan is still alive and causing people to sin.
People are still being saved today and God is still working on our world.
The laws contained in ordanaces and the civil laws and the moral laws.
The laws that past away were the ones that were contained in ordanaces.
There are many references to obeying the moral law after the death of Jesus.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has all been fulfilled? No
Satan is still alive and causing people to sin.
People are still being saved today and God is still working on our world.
-
1
- Show all
What was nailed to the cross?
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Jesus is the lamb, Jesus is the high priest, He is the bread, and by Him we are able to be free from sin.
Free from sin... what is sin?
If the moral law is gone we have no law to define sin.
All the laws contained in ordanaces that were shadows of the plan of salvation were fulfilled by Jesus.
The moral laws didn't change.
Do you think everything in the plan of salvation has been fulfilled.
(All that was needed to save was achieved at the cross)
The saved have not been glorified Jesus hasn't come as king of kings, sin and death has not been destroyed.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Not all has been fulfilled in regard to the plan of salvation.
Jesus is still in heaven as high priest today.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Jesus is the lamb, Jesus is the high priest, He is the bread, and by Him we are able to be free from sin.
Free from sin... what is sin?
If the moral law is gone we have no law to define sin.
All the laws contained in ordanaces that were shadows of the plan of salvation were fulfilled by Jesus.
The moral laws didn't change.
Do you think everything in the plan of salvation has been fulfilled.
(All that was needed to save was achieved at the cross)
The saved have not been glorified Jesus hasn't come as king of kings, sin and death has not been destroyed.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Not all has been fulfilled in regard to the plan of salvation.
Jesus is still in heaven as high priest today.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
There are a lot of people who seek to be justified by works and not through faith in Christ Jesus. There are also lots of people who say they are saved through faith, but are lacking in good works. According to the scriptures, their faith is dead.
So, we enter into the new covenant through faith. Then we are to be led by the Spirit and do good works.
So, we enter into the new covenant through faith. Then we are to be led by the Spirit and do good works.
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Heaven and earth have not passed away.
The Law is STILL bringing people to Christ.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
One Jot or One tittle will in no wise pass from the Law until All is fulfiilled. This is a very loaded statement. The Lord Jesus has fulfilled everything required of the Law. But since the Law is still bringing people to Christ it is still in FULL FORCE for those who have not come to Christ, yet.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Labouring and Heavy laden from what? From working at the law, from attaining their own righteousness before God.
The Law is STILL bringing people to Christ.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
One Jot or One tittle will in no wise pass from the Law until All is fulfiilled. This is a very loaded statement. The Lord Jesus has fulfilled everything required of the Law. But since the Law is still bringing people to Christ it is still in FULL FORCE for those who have not come to Christ, yet.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Labouring and Heavy laden from what? From working at the law, from attaining their own righteousness before God.
No doubt about that! Even "wonderful works In His Name" (Mat 7:21-23), Correct?
Do you mean "Justified By GRACE Through faith" In Christ Jesus?:
"...By Grace are ye Saved through faith" (Eph 2:8)?
So, we can judge the "carnal Corinthians," by the Scriptures, since they, "lacking in good works," have a "dead faith," which cannot Save them, Correct?
Did you not know what Paul said about one of those "sanctified saints" (ch 1:2), "babes In Christ" (c3 v1 )? According To The Scriptures?:
"This [ Judgment ] Day" (1Co 3:8-15), Where?:
have a live faith For God's ETERNAL Salvation, even though they have only
"bad works," Correct? More study, According To The Scriptures, here:
God's OPERATION On ALL Of HIS New-born babes In Christ
-------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings
Do you mean "Justified By GRACE Through faith" In Christ Jesus?:
"...By Grace are ye Saved through faith" (Eph 2:8)?
So, we can judge the "carnal Corinthians," by the Scriptures, since they, "lacking in good works," have a "dead faith," which cannot Save them, Correct?
Did you not know what Paul said about one of those "sanctified saints" (ch 1:2), "babes In Christ" (c3 v1 )? According To The Scriptures?:
"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may Be Saved in The Day of The LORD Jesus." (1Co 5:5)
Which "Day" Is referenced? Is it not, According To The Scriptures, "This [ Judgment ] Day" (1Co 3:8-15), Where?:
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The Day Shall
Declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire
Shall Try every man's work of what sort it is.
and, does not "That [ Judgment ] Day," Declare This?: "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he
shall receive a reward. If any man's work Shall Be burned, he
Shall Suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
(1Co 3:14-15)
So, since "dead faith" Saves no one, then even those "lacking GOOD works,"have a live faith For God's ETERNAL Salvation, even though they have only
"bad works," Correct? More study, According To The Scriptures, here:
God's OPERATION On ALL Of HIS New-born babes In Christ
-------------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)! + RICH Blessings
The schoolmaster is the laws that pointed to Christ, a shadow of Christ's life and ministry. To help people understand the plan of redemption. To bring us/them to Christ.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
This schoolmaster was added.....
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The law contained in ordanaces, that are shadow laws and are added because of sin are not the what defines sin.
Coveting was a sin before Adam and Eve were created.
Murdering, lying, and having other gods was a sin before Adam and Eve sinned. These were not added because of transgression they defined transgression from the start.
The schoolmaster is not the 10 commandments. It is the laws that pointed to, or helped to show the way Jesus would redemn us of sin.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
This schoolmaster was added.....
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The law contained in ordanaces, that are shadow laws and are added because of sin are not the what defines sin.
Coveting was a sin before Adam and Eve were created.
Murdering, lying, and having other gods was a sin before Adam and Eve sinned. These were not added because of transgression they defined transgression from the start.
The schoolmaster is not the 10 commandments. It is the laws that pointed to, or helped to show the way Jesus would redemn us of sin.
-
1
- Show all
Was Adam and Eve required to live free from sin? Was Noah and and his family required to keep the moral laws?
Before gentiles or Jews were seperated the same moral laws defined sin.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Israel was to be a light to the people around them.
God wanted to use them as an example of His kingdom, to draw all people to himself.
We are an israelite by adoption because of Jesus.
So we can't say I'm not a Jew or it is only for Jews.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches (Jews) be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Before gentiles or Jews were seperated the same moral laws defined sin.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Israel was to be a light to the people around them.
God wanted to use them as an example of His kingdom, to draw all people to himself.
We are an israelite by adoption because of Jesus.
So we can't say I'm not a Jew or it is only for Jews.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches (Jews) be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
No. You are 100% wrong.
It is the 10 commandments that bring us to Christ. Re-read Matthew 5.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I am dead to the Law because I have been given Rest by the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not frustrate the Grace of God because without the Lord Jesus I can do nothing.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Those who are working at the Law are under the curse. Seems counterintuitive, right? But if you re-read Matthew 5 you will see why. You will see that without the Grace of God you can't perform the 10 commandments. You can only perform your own watered down version of your own understanding of what the 10 commandments say. Which is super weak.
If you attempt to work at the 10 commandments the way the Lord Jesus Christ defines them in Matthew 5 you will have no choice but to come to Him and ask for help (Matthew 11:28)
It is the 10 commandments that bring us to Christ. Re-read Matthew 5.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I am dead to the Law because I have been given Rest by the Lord Jesus Christ. I do not frustrate the Grace of God because without the Lord Jesus I can do nothing.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Those who are working at the Law are under the curse. Seems counterintuitive, right? But if you re-read Matthew 5 you will see why. You will see that without the Grace of God you can't perform the 10 commandments. You can only perform your own watered down version of your own understanding of what the 10 commandments say. Which is super weak.
If you attempt to work at the 10 commandments the way the Lord Jesus Christ defines them in Matthew 5 you will have no choice but to come to Him and ask for help (Matthew 11:28)
-
1
- Show all
Abraham was the father of who??
Abram the Hebrew was the father of the Hebrew people
abraham is the father of many nations through Jesus Christ who is the son of Abraham
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
anyone who believes the gospel and gets baptized is a son of Abraham in Christ and heir according to the promise made to Abraham regarding all nations ,” all peoples and families of the earth “
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( the son of Abraham )
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
Abram was made a promose for a single nation to be delivered from bondage Egypt threat was fulfilled and then God fave then a law and made a covenant with them and they broke it and were cursed as he told them would happen when they broke his covenant. You find that throughout the Old Testament
Abraham was the name God gave him when he made an everlasting covenant with him to be father of all nations of earth , you find that being fulfilled in the New Testament
The promise to Abram the Hebrew is the story of israel , and is an allegory like the nation to ishmael who was cast out of Abraham’s house in order that he not inherit anything from Abraham but the inheritance belonged only to Isaac
The promise to Abraham father of many nations in the same allegory is likened to Isaac who was the sole Hier of Abraham’s possessions even though ishmael was firstborn , he later when Isaac was offered , isn’t recognized by God as a child of Abraham Isaac is said to be the only son of Abraham though he was second born all of the inheritance was given to him and ishmael was cast out of his house not having any inheritance but a seperate blessing through hagars plight and supplication to God in the desert
Abram the Hebrew was the father of the Hebrew people
abraham is the father of many nations through Jesus Christ who is the son of Abraham
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
anyone who believes the gospel and gets baptized is a son of Abraham in Christ and heir according to the promise made to Abraham regarding all nations ,” all peoples and families of the earth “
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ( the son of Abraham )
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
Abram was made a promose for a single nation to be delivered from bondage Egypt threat was fulfilled and then God fave then a law and made a covenant with them and they broke it and were cursed as he told them would happen when they broke his covenant. You find that throughout the Old Testament
Abraham was the name God gave him when he made an everlasting covenant with him to be father of all nations of earth , you find that being fulfilled in the New Testament
The promise to Abram the Hebrew is the story of israel , and is an allegory like the nation to ishmael who was cast out of Abraham’s house in order that he not inherit anything from Abraham but the inheritance belonged only to Isaac
The promise to Abraham father of many nations in the same allegory is likened to Isaac who was the sole Hier of Abraham’s possessions even though ishmael was firstborn , he later when Isaac was offered , isn’t recognized by God as a child of Abraham Isaac is said to be the only son of Abraham though he was second born all of the inheritance was given to him and ishmael was cast out of his house not having any inheritance but a seperate blessing through hagars plight and supplication to God in the desert
-
1
- Show all