Seems unlikely given that heaven is populated by people from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue.
Gospel Confusion...
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Grace be with you aswell
"the same eternal source — the Word of Truth." - AMEN!
The book of Hebrews is not church doctrine, rather, doctrine for the....wait for it...Hebrew people in the last days.
That statement reflects a hyper-dispensational or ultra-dispensational interpretation — a minority view within Christian theology.
Mainstream Understanding
The vast majority of Bible scholars — across Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox traditions — affirm that Hebrews is for the entire Church, not just ethnic Jews in a future “last-days” scenario.
- The book was written to Jewish Christians who were tempted to revert to Judaism because of persecution.
- Its core message applies to all believers: Jesus is the final High Priest, the once-for-all sacrifice, and the mediator of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8–10).
- Key verses like Hebrews 10:10–14, Hebrews 4:14–16, and Hebrews 13:20–21 make universal statements about Christ’s completed work and the believer’s access to God.
Certain ultra-dispensational teachers (like E.W. Bullinger or some “Grace Movement” circles) claim:
- Hebrews, James, Peter, and Revelation are “kingdom epistles” meant for Israel during the Tribulation.
- Paul’s letters alone (Romans–Philemon) are “for the Church today.”
- Hebrews teaches salvation by grace through faith (Hebrews 11), not law-keeping.
- The audience is described as already sanctified and partakers of the heavenly calling (Hebrews 3:1).
Hebrews 13:8 says, “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Its truths about faith, endurance, and the supremacy of Christ are timeless and for all believers.
Even if it was first addressed to Jewish Christians, its doctrine belongs to the entire Body of Christ.
Brother, I understand where you’re coming from, but the idea that Hebrews isn’t Church doctrine doesn’t line up with what the book itself teaches.
The opening verses make it clear that God “hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son” (Hebrews 1:2) — not just to ethnic Israel, but to all who hear and believe. The message is centered on Christ’s finished work, not on the Mosaic system.
Throughout the letter we’re told that:
- Christ “by Himself purged our sins” (Hebrews 1:3).
- He is the “High Priest of our profession” (Hebrews 3:1).
- By “one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” (Hebrews 10:14).
Yes, the book was first written to Jewish believers, but its message applies to every Christian who trusts in the same High Priest and shares the same heavenly calling (Hebrews 3:1). In fact, Hebrews 13:20–21 closes with a blessing “to make you perfect in every good work to do His will” — addressed to all who belong to Christ.
So rather than being “for the Hebrews in the last days,” Hebrews gives the Church today one of the clearest pictures of who Jesus is and what His sacrifice accomplished once for all.
Grace and Peace
Eisegetically forcing "salvation" into the context of 1 Cor. 3, that's very questionable when it clearly states "works., having to do more with rewards of treasures stored up in Heaven.
I'm still waiting for the loff of salvation gang to show to us that elusive/non-existent line over which one steps and loses his or her salvation.
MM
This letter is specifically written to the Hebrew people. In Christ, there is no Jew or Greek, for we are all one. Read the opening chapter. It states the audience and time period.
Ch. 11 does not teach salvation through faith in the d,b,r of Jesus Christ. It does show how the OT saints had faith in God's word, whatever that was for them in their time. That's dispensation at its core, not hyper.
Brother, I appreciate your clarification — you’re right that Hebrews 11 recounts the faith of Old Testament believers who trusted in God’s revelation for their time. Each responded faithfully to what had been revealed to them.
Where I’d suggest we might differ is in how we see the continuity of that faith. Hebrews 11 ties their faith directly into our faith by concluding in 11:39–40 that “these all… received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
The writer’s point seems to be that all true faith — whether before or after the cross — finds its fulfillment in Christ’s redemptive work. Their hope looked forward; ours looks back. Same faith, same object ultimately: God’s promise fulfilled in Jesus.
Dispensations help us understand the unfolding of revelation, but the author of Hebrews shows that all those threads converge in the one New Covenant, established through the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (Hebrews 9:15; 10:14–18).
So yes, there are dispensational distinctions — but Hebrews unites the story, showing that every age finds its meaning in the same Redeemer.
Grace and Peace.
Not necessarily, Hebrew people in general during the time of Jacob's trouble. Same with James. Both serve as examples and doctrine for the nation of Israel during the tribulation including how to be prepared for the coming kingdom on earth.
The Hebrew people during the time of Jacob's trouble will have the kingdom on earth literally at hand. Their entrance into their promised kingdom will require faith without falling away, giving in to the anti-christ.
To the Jewish people.
Jhn 11:25: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 11:26: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
The Jewish people, AND the "Nations"
Rom 10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Obviously Jesus and Paul preached the SAME MESSAGE. the Practical difference is that BEFORE CALVARY, NOBODY could be "Born again of the Holy Spirit", since the ultimate SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) hadn't been made - yet.
Obviously Jesus and Paul preached the SAME MESSAGE. the Practical difference is that BEFORE CALVARY, NOBODY could be "Born again of the Holy Spirit", since the ultimate SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) hadn't been made - yet.
There is a visible tension between grace and works in the N.T.
Let's allow AI to cover the literal reading of the N.T and see what AI concludes.
Your question strikes at one of the most profound tensions in the New Testament—how faith, works, salvation, and perseverance all relate to each other in the Christian life. Let's unpack this carefully using only the New Testament, as you requested.
Key Passages
Hebrews 6:7-8 (Warning About Fruitlessness)"For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned." (ESV)
Context: This passage is part of a strong warning (Hebrews 6:4–8) about those who have tasted the goodness of God but fall away. The metaphor compares a believer's life to soil that receives rain (God’s grace/word). If it bears fruit (good works, transformation), it is blessed. If not, it faces destruction.
Ephesians 2:8–9 (Salvation by Grace Through Faith)"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (ESV)
Context: Paul here emphasizes that salvation is a gift, not something earned by human effort. It is faith, not works, that is the instrument by which we are saved.
Reconciling the Two1. Salvation Is by Faith Alone, But True Faith Is Never Alone
This is a central idea in Paul, James, and Jesus:
- Ephesians 2:10, right after v.8–9:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
➤ Faith saves, but good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation. - James 2:17:
"Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
➤ A faith that doesn’t produce fruit is not true, living faith. - John 15:2 (Jesus):
"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away..."
➤ Union with Christ must bear fruit, or it is cut off.
2. Warnings Are Real, Not Hypothetical
Hebrews is especially known for its strong warnings to Christians:
- Don’t fall away (Heb. 3:12)
- Don’t neglect salvation (Heb. 2:3)
- Pursue holiness (Heb. 12:14)
- Hold fast your confidence to the end (Heb. 3:14)
These warnings aren’t just hypothetical—they’re meant to motivate perseverance, not imply salvation by works. But they do imply that a person can appear to believe, yet not endure to the end and thus be rejected (e.g., parable of the sower—Luke 8:13–14).
3. God Keeps Us Through Faith That Endures and Works
The New Testament teaches both assurance and responsibility:
- Assurance: God preserves His people (John 10:28, Romans 8:30).
- Responsibility: We must persevere in faith and good works (Phil 2:12–13, Col. 1:23, 2 Peter 1:10).
So, works don’t cause salvation, but they are evidence of it. A person truly regenerated by the Spirit will produce fruit—not perfectly, but truly and increasingly.
Conclusion (Synthesis)- We are legally justified (declared righteous) by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8).
- But the faith that justifies is a living faith that inevitably bears fruit (Gal. 5:22–23, James 2:26).
- If a professing believer does not bear fruit or abandons the faith, the New Testament issues strong warnings: such a person may face judgment (Heb. 6:8, Matt. 7:21–23).
- Therefore, the call of the New Testament is to trust Christ, but also to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12)—not as a contradiction, but as the natural outworking of God’s grace in us (Phil. 2:13).
That’s a strong statement — can you show where Scripture directly teaches that “the Hebrew people during the time of Jacob’s trouble will have the kingdom on earth literally at hand, and that their entrance will depend on faith without falling away or giving in to the Antichrist”?
Please provide specific chapter and verse support for each part:
- Where the Bible says “Jacob’s trouble” refers to a future 7-year Tribulation for Israel.
- Where it says the kingdom will be “literally at hand” for them during that time.
- Where it says their entrance into the kingdom depends on faith without falling away or resisting the Antichrist.
Grace and Peace
That is so very true, just as most commentators don't agree with each other except on the most basis of topics.
MM
In relation to Christ and His offer of salvation there is no Greek nor Jew, etc., but on this earth there are indeed distinctions that do not vanish away, which will become once again lines of division in the future kingdom promised only to Israel, not to Gentile nations. We're all still, in this world, male and female, etc.
MM
There is a visible tension between grace and works in the N.T.
Let's allow AI to cover the literal reading of the N.T and see what AI concludes.
Your question strikes at one of the most profound tensions in the New Testament—how faith, works, salvation, and perseverance all relate to each other in the Christian life. Let's unpack this carefully using only the New Testament, as you requested.
"For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned." (ESV)
Context: This passage is part of a strong warning (Hebrews 6:4–8) about those who have tasted the goodness of God but fall away. The metaphor compares a believer's life to soil that receives rain (God’s grace/word). If it bears fruit (good works, transformation), it is blessed. If not, it faces destruction.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (ESV)
Context: Paul here emphasizes that salvation is a gift, not something earned by human effort. It is faith, not works, that is the instrument by which we are saved.
1. Salvation Is by Faith Alone, But True Faith Is Never Alone
This is a central idea in Paul, James, and Jesus:
- Ephesians 2:10, right after v.8–9:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
➤ Faith saves, but good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation.- James 2:17:
"Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
➤ A faith that doesn’t produce fruit is not true, living faith.- John 15:2 (Jesus):
"Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away..."
➤ Union with Christ must bear fruit, or it is cut off.
2. Warnings Are Real, Not Hypothetical
Hebrews is especially known for its strong warnings to Christians:
- Don’t fall away (Heb. 3:12)
- Don’t neglect salvation (Heb. 2:3)
- Pursue holiness (Heb. 12:14)
- Hold fast your confidence to the end (Heb. 3:14)
These warnings aren’t just hypothetical—they’re meant to motivate perseverance, not imply salvation by works. But they do imply that a person can appear to believe, yet not endure to the end and thus be rejected (e.g., parable of the sower—Luke 8:13–14).
3. God Keeps Us Through Faith That Endures and Works
The New Testament teaches both assurance and responsibility:
- Assurance: God preserves His people (John 10:28, Romans 8:30).
- Responsibility: We must persevere in faith and good works (Phil 2:12–13, Col. 1:23, 2 Peter 1:10).
So, works don’t cause salvation, but they are evidence of it. A person truly regenerated by the Spirit will produce fruit—not perfectly, but truly and increasingly.
- We are legally justified (declared righteous) by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8).
- But the faith that justifies is a living faith that inevitably bears fruit (Gal. 5:22–23, James 2:26).
- If a professing believer does not bear fruit or abandons the faith, the New Testament issues strong warnings: such a person may face judgment (Heb. 6:8, Matt. 7:21–23).
- Therefore, the call of the New Testament is to trust Christ, but also to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12)—not as a contradiction, but as the natural outworking of God’s grace in us (Phil. 2:13).
AI (Artificial Imagination) is of no value here. We don't need a secular creation in programming to tel us what scripture says AND what Holy Spirit says.
MM