The spiritual facet is gone. This being the case, every other aspect of man is still operative, but only according to the flesh.
You simply don't understand depravity.
Gospel Confusion...
- Thread starter Musicmaster
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You simply don't understand depravity.
What is your scriptural proof that an unregenerate is incapable of doing anything good or righteous?
So, are you asserting that the standard of behaviour God requires of those who have Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and a renewed purified spirit is less that what He expected of those who did not have Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and a renewed spirit under the old covenant?
You simply don't understand that God did something about our depravity.
God the Father sent us His Son and the Holy Spirit.......They convict/confess to us.
The natural man under the conviction/confessing of the Holy Spirit sure can weigh his options.
Cornelius was unsaved and unregenerate, but did righteousness in God's estimation.
ct 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Was Cornelius as depraved as your theory demands he must have been?
Yes, the context does contain the stated command from Peter, who was indeed consistent with the gospel He knew from what was preached by John the Baptist and by Jesus, all aimed at Israel, not Gentiles nor the body of Christ that came into being after the fall of Israel and the beginning of the formation of the body of Christ with Paul as its very first member.
Good point, but it still doesn't equate to a commend for us today given that Paul never addressed it as a command from the Lord to us today.
Just want that to be understood by the other readers through this thread.
MM
This seems to be the naturally occurring question that arises from the realization that we are not under the requirement for performance-based salvation. The many, many religions who today demand performance-based salvation and retention of said salvation that they teach about, this is the outflow from that doctrinal basis that is to pervasive among the denominations and cults.
When you speak of behavior, that, to me, bring forth the requirement for performance. Behavior, most generally, plays into the realm of our efforts and conduct in relation to perceived moral standards, requirements and Law.
When Paul spoke of the only basis for our salvation through the Gospel of Grace today, he was careful to divorce it from anything to do with our "behavior" in the broadest sense of that term. Yes, we are indeed to be subject to the guidance and direction of Holy Spirit given that we are sealed by Holy Spirit upon the basis of our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day, according to the scriptures, for our redemption and cleansing of our sins in the past and in the future.
So, what matters is what was placed upon them back then before the Gospel of Grace, and what it placed upon us today. That they are different doesn't differentiate any of us apart from the ancients as anyone being more or less beholden to moral conduct. They, at that time, were required to DO by their efforts given that they were not filled by Holy Spirit. We today, guided and sealed by Holy Spirit, will, by nature through the guidance of that same Holy Spirit, will conduct ourselves willingly, walking by faith, working out our salvation with fear and trembling, but not in the manner as is presumed by the those who have sold themselves out to the system of work-based salvation.
Does that adequately answer your question? If not, then I would have to ask about the basis and perspective from which you're asking the questions rather than trying to guess at it, given the plethora of variants so many harbor in their understanding about works-based salvation versus walking by faith and everything in between.
MM
Well, that's what I don't understand from you. You preach depravity as if God has left us all hanging and is not involved.
He will convict/convince the world of their sin.......Some say yes, some say no.
Equal privilege, equal opportunity.......Justice/righteousness.
If I seal a bottle of wine until 2050 expecting a high quality matured vintage, does that guarantee that the wine will be good when I open it? If I put a failsafe motor in a vehicle that will function perfectly until 2050, does that guarantee that the driver will never be injured or killed in a car accident before 2050? We are given the Holy Spirit as a downpayment on the house until the day that the house becomes due for full possession . But if we present a vandalised house to the purchaser on the handover day, He can still legally opt out of completing the deal.
Someone who fears God and works righteousness is saved. Do you see anything in the passage that says Cornelius isn't already saved?
But Cornelius was not regenerate, and yet God considered that he had been doing commendable righteousness. Acts 10. So, are you agreeing that the unregenerate, though suffering from omni-faceted imperfection, can believe sufficiently in God to do some righteousness?
Who says Cornelius is unregenerate? It's not in the passage. On the contrary, he fears God and works righteousness. Those things aren't true of the unsaved, but the saved.
The problem I have with your metaphors is that they cascade out of control to the realities that govern this realm in the physical rather than to represent the Heavenly realm beyond this physical realm. I agree with you that we have an "earnest" of salvation, but the seal of Holy Spirit is not even hinted at as being something that is revocable, so beyond that I'm not understanding what you're getting at.
Are you saying that any truly saved individual can lose his salvation today?
MM
Act 10:6 He [Peter] lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
What ought Cornelius to do? And why ought he to do it?
So, are you saying that one can be saved without knowing the gospel? What was God's purpose, in your opinion, for having Cornelius hear the gospel?
Well, scripture says that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until some event. That indicates that we could possibly become unsealed at that event.