God's Will does not always happen

[jsr1221]

Really? But he cares about you having an alarm clock, going to work, eating, and having a bathroom? Yup. It really is, always, about you.

(BTW, Peyton is a Christian. Just because he doesn't make it all shiny to impress people like others do, doesn't mean he's not. And yet, look what impresses you. Getting down on one knee in a stadium for 15 minutes of fame.)

When did this turn into a Peyton Manning topic? Peyton is actually my favorite player and I'm happy he got to go out on top. But anyways, if you really believe God dictates the outcome in sports, you're misleading. Teams in all sports pray before each game. To say God chooses them to win a game is essentially saying there's no such thing as athletic skill sets. Teams pray for health and safety, which ultimately I think God cares more about a player not getting a concussion than some silly final score. And I say that with football being my favorite sport. But to go back to your previous post, that janitor utltimately chose how he would spend his check. We don't know if it went to tithes. Or Bill's. Or materialistic stuff. Or what. So while (again) God can use any situation for His purpose, not everything is for His Will Because we choose how we react in situations, and if it completely goes aginst what He wants is to do (i.e., blowing millions upon millions of dollars on ourseleves rather than using football as a way to minister to others), that's going against God's Will. Jesus Himself got mad at those that were wasting their skills and time. So if God doesn't like someone wasting away his or her life, how is that His Will? You say I'm creating my own God but at the end of the day I'm not because I can either choose to go out and minister, or I can choose to stay in bed and watch game shows and soap operas while eating potato chips all day. You're honestly going to say the latter is of God?

 

[1ofthem]

The Bible also shows us how God can and does change his mind at times. God sent the prophet Isaiah to Hezekiah. He was told to set his house in order because he would die and not live. Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed. God changed his mind and added 15 years to his life.

The lesson I learned from that is that prayer can change things.

 

[jsr1221]

Really? But he cares about you having an alarm clock, going to work, eating, and having a bathroom? Yup. It really is, always, about you.

(BTW, Peyton is a Christian. Just because he doesn't make it all shiny to impress people like others do, doesn't mean he's not. And yet, look what impresses you. Getting down on one knee in a stadium for 15 minutes of fame.)

There is everyday basic things that common sense says we need to do. Sleep, eat, hygeine, shower. Exercise. When we don't do those things, our health suffers. So if I were to choose to eat junk food and not exercise, can you honestly say I am glorifying God's Will for my life? If I choose to not to shower? Once again. What about if I try being an artist even though I know God didn't bless me in the skill set of art. I can continue to put time in over and over again, but it doesn't matter how much one practices at something if one just isn't good at something. God's Will obviously isn't for me to be an artist, yet I could choose to waste my time by performing art that just flat out is bad. Is that God's Will for me? I've said it before and I'll say it again. God's Will is different than using a situation for His glory. See the millions of innocent victims of sexual abuse.

 

[Depleted]

When did this turn into a Peyton Manning topic? Peyton is actually my favorite player and I'm happy he got to go out on top. But anyways, if you really believe God dictates the outcome in sports, you're misleading. Teams in all sports pray before each game. To say God chooses them to win a game is essentially saying there's no such thing as athletic skill sets. Teams pray for health and safety, which ultimately I think God cares more about a player not getting a concussion than some silly final score. And I say that with football being my favorite sport. But to go back to your previous post, that janitor utltimately chose how he would spend his check. We don't know if it went to tithes. Or Bill's. Or materialistic stuff. Or what. So while (again) God can use any situation for His purpose, not everything is for His Will Because we choose how we react in situations, and if it completely goes aginst what He wants is to do (i.e., blowing millions upon millions of dollars on ourseleves rather than using football as a way to minister to others), that's going against God's Will. Jesus Himself got mad at those that were wasting their skills and time. So if God doesn't like someone wasting away his or her life, how is that His Will? You say I'm creating my own God but at the end of the day I'm not because I can either choose to go out and minister, or I can choose to stay in bed and watch game shows and soap operas while eating potato chips all day. You're honestly going to say the latter is of God?

What's misleading is you decided you will trumps God's will and you're trying to convince everyone your right.
1. You're doing a poor job.
2. You're not right!

Please, do choose staying in bed, because all you'd do going out "ministering" is teaching people humanism. I've been on the receiving end of that. Thankfully, God corrected that course as well as he corrected Jonah's course.

 

[jsr1221]

What's misleading is you decided you will trumps God's will and you're trying to convince everyone your right.
1. You're doing a poor job.
2. You're not right!

Please, do choose staying in bed, because all you'd do going out "ministering" is teaching people humanism. I've been on the receiving end of that. Thankfully, God corrected that course as well as he corrected Jonah's course.

He corrected those courses because those courses were going against His Will. So thank you for just proving my point.

 

[ember]

God had every intention on destroying Nineveh. He wasn't "wasting time." I never "bail" or "rearrange" the word of God. I read it. I believe it, every word. I one of those people. Please post a verse in the book of Jonah where they were given a choice through Jonah's preaching. It's not there. Don't add to or take away.

you don't get it

you just really don't

we are not on the same page with how we view God

that's fine

 

[ember]

The Bible also shows us how God can and does change his mind at times. God sent the prophet Isaiah to Hezekiah. He was told to set his house in order because he would die and not live. Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed. God changed his mind and added 15 years to his life.

The lesson I learned from that is that prayer can change things.

I can 'amen' this one

I don't think we really get just how much and how willing God is to communicate Himself to us and how much He wants us to 'straighten out and fly right'

I like what Jesus says here:

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’4“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think
5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’ ”6And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

In the Psalms it says ' Trust in Him at all times, O people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us.' Psalm 62:8

 

[1ofthem]

I can 'amen' this one

I don't think we really get just how much and how willing God is to communicate Himself to us and how much He wants us to 'straighten out and fly right'

I like what Jesus says here:

Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’4“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think
5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’ ”6And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

In the Psalms it says ' Trust in Him at all times, O people; Pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us.' Psalm 62:8

Amen. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much....
James 5:15-18
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

 

[jsr1221]

If you are teaching not everything is under the control of God then you are teaching that God is not God.

Everything that has happened and will happen is controlled by God. Nothing takes God by surprise!

When God created everything He knew exactly what will happen in the future.

By your definition we should all be little robotics that have no emotion or no sinful nature, since everything is under the control of God. God has control, yes, but our flesh is what got us in trouble in the first place.

 

[Grandpa]

Everything does happen for a reason. We either sin or not sin because God gave us free will. And just like a GPS, God refigures if we make a wrong turn. God's Will is for us to have free will until death and judgement, so God's Will is being carried out.

Hahahha...

Like the Allstate mayhem commercials.... Recalculating.... lol


Could you imagine trying to play chess with someone who knows all your moves and knows everything that is going to happen in the future?

It could probably look like you were winning that game, for a minute. Like the person who knows your every move and everything that is going to happen in the future is on His Heels and has to re-figure....

But if He knows everything that is going to happen what does He have to re-figure?

If He doesn't have to re-figure anything and He influences people and situations, what happens that is against His Will? What can possibly happen in this situation that would go against His Will?

Isaiah 55:8-11
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[Depleted]

He corrected those courses because those courses were going against His Will. So thank you for just proving my point.

With that logic... so you agree you going out to minister is against God's will?

Your welcome. It's nice to agree for a change.

 

[Depleted]

By your definition we should all be little robotics that have no emotion or no sinful nature, since everything is under the control of God. God has control, yes, but our flesh is what got us in trouble in the first place.

No, that's merely what you make it into because that's how you see it. Not his definition. Yours. Not even a definition given there, but you made one up anyway.

 

[trofimus]

I came across an article that talked about how Christians nowadays always try to use God for each reasoning. It ultimately talked about how the typical Christian believes God is behind everything and everything happens for a reason. The author said we as the church needed to stop this thinking, because everything doesn't happen for a reason. After giving it thought, I agree. Let me give an example.

A situation generally has two outcomes. How can God be behind every single outcome when those outcomes contradict each other? Opposite outcomes contradict each other, and if we say God's Will is behind everything and everything happens for a reason, then we're essentially saying God is a contradiction. Because one outcome can be positive and the other would be negative. So why would God have both a positive and negative (sinful) outcome for His will, when He is against sin? Everything doesn't happen for a reason, and not everything is according to His Will. He can use any situation for His glory, but that doesn't mean that situation was His Will. We do, after all, have free will.

I very recommend you the book Theodicy by Gottfried W. Leibniz, he addresses exactly all these issues in a strictly logical way.

You can get it even online in a pdf format.

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/LeibnizBestPossibleWorldTheodicy.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz

 

[peacefulbeliever]

God told Jonah to go to Nineveh. So Jonah in his "free will" hopped onto the next ship going the opposite way. That very large fish was in the right spot at the right time to swallow him during a storm brought by God of His "free will" to stop Jonah from his "free will," so I'm going with the fish wouldn't have been there if Jonah were smart in the first place.

Oh, and that fish "free willed" it right to the beach in front of Nineveh and then upchucked Jonah right out of his gut three days later, at the exact right time when Jonah truly willed to preach God's message. And then... when it was over, Jonah went right back to free-willing.

I so love that book. It reminds me so much of how well my "free will" goes.

(As for God's will on saving all, if we'd read the rest of that paragraph, instead of stopping in mid thought, we'd discover God gets all who he works at, not every single person ever conceived.)

Jonah made the choice to NOT go to Ninevah. He made the choice and he paid the consequence of that choice . . . BTW, a fish does not have "a will" . . . . a "fish just bees a fish" and does what fishes do - to say or act like a fish can "think" is what is laughable!

Okay, God set up the whole scenario - He made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah (contrary to what He actually wanted) and because God made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah - Jonah had to be swallowed by a fish. Why would God have Jonah swallowed by a fish if Jonah had no choice in the matter to begin with? Why didn't God just make him go ahead and go to Ninevah in the first place since Jonah didn't have a say in the matter?

God's desire is for ALL men to be saved . . . ALL as "in all without exception". There will be those who believe. . . . there will be those who do not believe - You say it is God's choice on who believes and who doesn't . . . Hey, no need to worry everybody, you're just where God wants you to be - Just sit on your couch - IF you are chosen - you are chosen . . . IF you are condemned - no hope for you - you are condemned . . . Doesn't matter what you do or believe . . .Yea makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[psychomom]

Jonah made the choice to NOT go to Ninevah. He made the choice and he paid the consequence of that choice . . . BTW, a fish does not have "a will" . . . . a "fish just bees a fish" and does what fishes do - to say or act like a fish can "think" is what is laughable!

Okay, God set up the whole scenario - He made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah (contrary to what He actually wanted) and because God made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah - Jonah had to be swallowed by a fish. Why would God have Jonah swallowed by a fish if Jonah had no choice in the matter to begin with? Why didn't God just make him go ahead and go to Ninevah in the first place since Jonah didn't have a say in the matter?

of course Jonah had a choice to obey God or not.

but what if the Ninevites hearing 'Yet forty days and Ninevah shall be overthrown' from a guy bleached by the digestive enzymes of a fish was a teeny bit more impacting than if he had obeyed God from the start?

we don't always see the end from the beginning, but God does.

 

[John146]

Jonah made the choice to NOT go to Ninevah. He made the choice and he paid the consequence of that choice . . . BTW, a fish does not have "a will" . . . . a "fish just bees a fish" and does what fishes do - to say or act like a fish can "think" is what is laughable!

Okay, God set up the whole scenario - He made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah (contrary to what He actually wanted) and because God made Jonah NOT go to Ninevah - Jonah had to be swallowed by a fish. Why would God have Jonah swallowed by a fish if Jonah had no choice in the matter to begin with? Why didn't God just make him go ahead and go to Ninevah in the first place since Jonah didn't have a say in the matter?

God's desire is for ALL men to be saved . . . ALL as "in all without exception". There will be those who believe. . . . there will be those who do not believe - You say it is God's choice on who believes and who doesn't . . . Hey, no need to worry everybody, you're just where God wants you to be - Just sit on your couch - IF you are chosen - you are chosen . . . IF you are condemned - no hope for you - you are condemned . . . Doesn't matter what you do or believe . . .Yea makes a lot of sense to me.

God did not send Jonah there with a message of salvation. The message was one of destruction for their wickedness had come up before God. God had every intention of destroying Nineveh in forty days, but He changed His mind. God either lied in the first place, or He changed His mind.

 

[jsr1221]

With that logic... so you agree you going out to minister is against God's will?

Your welcome. It's nice to agree for a change.

Snickering emoticons like that show just how mature you really are. Sixty years old? Disappointed at the immaturity and passive-aggressiveness rather than wisdom that people like you should incorporate.

 

[Magenta]

I like the analogy of a chess game as standing in for the variables of life, because in reality there are a finite number of things that can happen to us during our life time, just as there are a finite number of moves that can comprise any one chess game. Each move changes the ultimate outcome and subsequent moves possible, but an omnipotent being would know the outcome after every single move regardless because they know the board and players intimately, as well as all the other variables and all remaining potential outcomes of the game. Knowing every possible move does not in any way imply that any move is predetermined. However, as the game progresses, less and less moves are available to make with the reduced number of pieces and options available on the board. Finally, there are no more moves left. The game is over. Checkmate! An omnipotent Being would have no need to predetermine any outcome. He could, though. I think He has actually. He wins. It is His game, after all.

People have actually figured out the mathematics for possible moves available in chess games, calculated as possible games. At the beginning of any game there are literally billions of moves possible. Here is the number:

10 to the 120th power.
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = 1 Quadragintillion

Imagine God knowing that number of possible moves for every single person to make in their lives. LOL

If God willed every single thing to happen, that would mean He is willing (desiring) for people to cheat, lie, rape, thieve, murder, etc, every time such a thing happens. That simply makes no sense. Him allowing it does not mean He is willing it to happen. But He is still going to win.