God's Elect: This Ends Any Debate

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brightfame52 said:
Its written to an assembly which no doubt has both saved and lost amongst them, like tares amongst the wheat,or vessels of dishonor among vessels of honor like 2 Tim220

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour
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dude, you need to take off your Calvinist glasses and look to the passage.

The author was not talking about who was saved and who was not. or telling them anything about it. he was trying to teach them, and convince them, as the whole book of Hebrews does

He was telling them the truth, if you return to law, with the belief that you can fall away, you are in danger. for if one could truly fall away, they could not get re saved (animal sacrifice will not make you right with God again) And those trying to convince you to do this put Jesus to open shame, because since Jesus is the ONLY sacrifice God will accept. saying one can fall away is effect calls for God to be crucified again;. the only means of restoration.
 
God's righteousness through Jesus Christ is the only way any of us has a chance. If one thinks they can lose their salvation through sin, everyone of us has no hope. I'm in Christ. I have his righteousness! I am justified, not by my own works, but through the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
dude, you need to take off your Calvinist glasses and look to the passage.

The author was not talking about who was saved and who was not. or telling them anything about it. he was trying to teach them, and convince them, as the whole book of Hebrews does

He was telling them the truth, if you return to law, with the belief that you can fall away, you are in danger. for if one could truly fall away, they could not get re saved (animal sacrifice will not make you right with God again) And those trying to convince you to do this put Jesus to open shame, because since Jesus is the ONLY sacrifice God will accept. saying one can fall away is effect calls for God to be crucified again;. the only means of restoration.
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I can tell you dont get it
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
You admire his courage to keep attacking the grace of God?

wow
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Romans chapter 1. Reprobates reject the truth and reject grace. Reprobates refuse to carry there cross daily. They have the mentality of Satan and unclean Spirit. Only cowards run from the truth. Men of courage often stand alone. Reprobates have free will, and reject God's Truth.
Amos 5:10.
They Hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him who speaks the truth.
Only cowards hide from the truth. They can't stand to look themselves in the mirror. False brethren/Reprobates. False teachers don't have brass horns to teach sound doctrine. You never faced persecution, because you hide. Ephesians chapter 6, expose fruits of darkness. Reprobates stand up for Satan. Cowardice is contagious. I will be ignoring you.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
It still does not prove fatalism.

The best evidence is the book of John chapter 3. Jesus tells Nicodemus that we must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Nicodemus seems confused so Jesus says a few things, Then Nicodemus asks Jesus. How can these things be

Jesus responds in a way that can not be countered. It is actually quite simple. even for the Lost to understand

1. He mentions Moses and the serpent. Remember, the children of Israel were getting bit by snakes, and they were getting killed. so they cried out.
2. God tells Moses to make a bronze serpent and put this on a pole
3. Moses tells all of them. If you look, you will live, if you do not, you will die.
4. People had to chose to look. they had to humble themselves. They were in sin, and defying God in lack of faith. so God sent these serpents to them. Those that chose in faith to trust God and humble self lived. those who did nto died.
5. God was glorified in those that were saved. as they did nothing to save themselves.
6. God is glorified in those who did not live, for he offered them salvation also.
7. No one deserved to be saved., they all were in sin. But God in his mercy and Grace offered them a way. those who believed lived. those who did not died.
8. Jesus said in the same way, The son of man must be lifted up. that whoever believes (looks) will never perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that again whoever believes (looks) shall never perish but live forever.
9. Again, God is glorified. because those who are saved did nto do anything to save themselves. they just trusted God.
10 He is glorified even by those who are not saved. because it was their for the taking, but they willingly rejected it.
11. As jesus said, he was not sent to judge but that the world MAY be saved.

he who believes is not condemned, He who does nto believe is condemned already.

The world is the world. Not the elect. Just like God offered the serpent to all the children of Israel. even those who died. he offers his gift to the world. even those who will suffer the second death
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Believe as you wish.
 
j55 said:
Romans chapter 1. Reprobates reject the truth and reject grace. Reprobates refuse to carry there cross daily. They have the mentality of Satan and unclean Spirit. Only cowards run from the truth. Men of courage often stand alone. Reprobates have free will, and reject God's Truth.
Amos 5:10.
They Hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him who speaks the truth.
Only cowards hide from the truth. They can't stand to look themselves in the mirror. False brethren/Reprobates. False teachers don't have brass horns to teach sound doctrine. You never faced persecution, because you hide. Ephesians chapter 6, expose fruits of darkness. Reprobates stand up for Satan. Cowardice is contagious. I will be ignoring you.
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Your right they do

But legalists Hate grace also. They try to make grace something we earn. Not something paid in full by our redeemer

they point to self not God.

If you really get to the nuts and bolts. Both legalists and licentious people have a major problem. Pride.

Just like Paul rejected the licentious in romans 1. He just as radically condemned the legalists in romans 2.
 
MeowFlower said:
Good. That's a start. If I helped you arrive at that change it is a blessing.
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Change?

I have not changed. The tax collector pointed to god. And went home justified
the pharisee pointed to self. And went home lost.

they both made free will choices.

Please do not pump your chest thinking your special because God chose you. God calls the world.. Sadly not everyone will call on God.
 
DavyP said:
One of the most important Bible Chapters that reveals what God's election is about is with Lord Jesus' prayer in John 17 just prior to His being delivered up to be crucified.

Jesus revealed 2 different groups of believers in John 17:

1. His elect Apostles, prophets, patriarchs. Jesus showed The Father originally owned them, and gave them to Jesus. He thus will often directly intervene in their lives to serve Him. This is why Lord Jesus directly intervened with Saul (Apostle Paul), converting him on the road to Damascus when Saul was persecuting the Church (Acts 9). The word apostle means to be 'sent'. Jesus said He sent these into the world, and that they are not of the world. Likewise with Jonah, he tried to get out of his duty that God gave him, but God made him fulfill it. Ownership, that's what this group is about. He already owned them before this present world. These represent Christ's "very elect". Calvinists often wrongly... apply this group to every believer, but that is not what Lord Jesus showed in John 17.

2. Those who must believe by using their own free will represent the majority of believers on The Father and The Son. This second group Jesus revealed is by their believing by His Apostle's word (i.e., preaching of The Gospel). These still can use their free will to fall away, and God will allow it and will not intervene unless they repent and ask Him.

Then Jesus prayed that BOTH groups would become 'one' in Him and The Father.

This means that the 1st group, His "very elect", cannot... fall away, because He already owns them.

But the 2nd group of believers can fall away by their own choice, and they only become part of His election while they remain walking in Christ Jesus.

This is why man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Biblical. For the majority of us, we must... remain walking in Christ Jesus until the end, and beware of being deceived by Satan and his host. This is why Christ and His Apostles, especially Apostle Paul, gave so many warnings against falling away, especially for those in the last days. It is why He warned us about the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah that must come first playing God with the power to do miracles like Jesus Christ.
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You completely miss the mark on this post.Your allegiance to your "free will" god is an idol that blocks you from the truth.
Adam died at the fall, we die in Adam, the will is bound by sin.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
Change?

I have not changed. The tax collector pointed to god. And went home justified
the pharisee pointed to self. And went home lost.

they both made free will choices.

Please do not pump your chest thinking your special because God chose you. God calls the world.. Sadly not everyone will call on God.
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Yeahhhh, you really don't understand.

I'm not pumping my chest. Your implications are not applying to me.

Man isn't in control. When egos think their will works God they revoke God's Sovereignty and Dominion in their argument.

God is Sovereign and has Dominion over his creation.
 
MeowFlower said:
Yeahhhh, you really don't understand.

I'm not pumping my chest. Your implications are not applying to me.

Man isn't in control. When egos think their will works God they revoke God's Sovereignty and Dominion in their argument.

God is Sovereign and has Dominion over his creation.
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If you think God chose you but did not chose the person next to you and because God chose you you will go to heaven, and because God did nto chose him he will have no possibility even if he wanted to to go to heaven.

Your pumping your chest.

If you think you and the person next to you have equal opportunity and your eternity is based on what you decide to do with the offer of Salvation God is offering to both of you. Then you are like the tax collector
 
MeowFlower said:
Yeahhhh, you really don't understand.

I'm not pumping my chest. Your implications are not applying to me.

Man isn't in control. When egos think their will works God they revoke God's Sovereignty and Dominion in their argument.

God is Sovereign and has Dominion over his creation.
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Define sovereign since it’s a term not found in scripture. Thanks.
 
Everlasting-Grace said:
If you think God chose you but did not chose the person next to you and because God chose you you will go to heaven, and because God did nto chose him he will have no possibility even if he wanted to to go to heaven.

Your pumping your chest.

If you think you and the person next to you have equal opportunity and your eternity is based on what you decide to do with the offer of Salvation God is offering to both of you. Then you are like the tax collector
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Like I said, you don't understand.
 
MeowFlower said:
Like I said, you don't understand.
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Please do not insult me, I understand quite well.

You can not claim you are not pumping your chest when you claim you were chosen and your neighbor was not.

Paul said we are saved by Grace period. But through faith not works, lest anyone should boast (He separates our saving faith from works, and claims those who are saved through faith are not of those who boast. it is those who try to be saved by works) )

When God comes and gives me his gospel. and says he wants to save me, Me, in faith, saying "Yes lord I trust you and I want you to apply your death to my soul", is not me saving myself. I do not know who came up with this idea. but it is not from God.
 
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