"God loves everyone" - false

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

All His other attributes are within His love ...

I guess He was loving those He drowned when only Noah and all in the ark lived?
I guess He was loving them in Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities as fire and brimstone destroyed them?

 

[Magenta]

I do not believe God makes it impossible for any to respond/come to Him and then punishes them forever after in the manner many believe (eternal conscious torment) for refusing/failing to positively respond to a summons that was not meant for and/or presented to them in the first place. Jesus said, "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." It seems we start from different premises. I start from the premise that God is love (as Scripture plainly states) and will restore everything (as Scripture also plainly states). No, I am not a universalist. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, and the wicked will be destroyed... they perish as Scripture plainly states in a number of ways across a multitude of verses and books, which is something else many deny. Yes, destroying evil is an act of love which encompasses mercy and justice as well! Nor do I base my doctrine and beliefs around such an important matter on a "what-if" question asked by Paul. Esau and Jacob represent nations, again explicitly stated in Scripture. Jacob is renamed as Israel, and Esau represents Edomites: unbelieving enemies of God and Israel. King Herod was an Edomite who ordered a massacre in Bethlehem in an attempt to kill Jesus Christ, just like anyone with the spirit of anti-Christ tries to because there is no room at the inn (their worldly un-regenerated heart). God is a covenant keeping God and the covenant made in the shed righteous blood of Jesus is offered to all. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world... whosoever will respond in faith. The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

@Magenta

God doesn't have to make it impossible to come unto Him. Those He justly left in their fallen state don't want to come to Him to begin with. "yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."[John 5:40]

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I do not believe God makes it impossible for any to respond/come to Him and then punishes them forever after in the manner many believe (eternal conscious torment) for refusing/failing to positively respond to a summons that was not meant for and/or presented to them in the first place. Jesus said, "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." It seems we start from different premises. I start from the premise that God is love (as Scripture plainly states) and will restore everything (as Scripture also plainly states). No, I am not a universalist. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, and the wicked will be destroyed... they perish as Scripture plainly states in a number of ways across a multitude of verses and books, which is something else many deny. Yes, destroying evil is an act of love which encompasses mercy and justice as well! Nor do I base my doctrine and beliefs around such an important matter on a "what-if" question asked by Paul. Esau and Jacob represent nations, again explicitly stated in Scripture. Jacob is renamed as Israel, and Esau represents Edomites: unbelieving enemies of God and Israel. King Herod was an Edomite who ordered a massacre in Bethlehem in an attempt to kill Jesus Christ, just like anyone with the spirit of anti-Christ tries to because there is no room at the inn (their worldly un-regenerated heart). God is a covenant keeping God and the covenant made in the shed righteous blood of Jesus is offered to all. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world... whosoever will respond in faith. The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Sissy, positing a bunch of vss and offer no exposition does not buttress your stance. You are showing all that you do not understand our position at all. No Calvinist that I know of believes God purposely and forcefully withholds anyone from coming to Him. That is not a thing He does. However, He also does not do like an elderly father standing on the porch calling his children to come inside, either. He actively seeks, He actively pursues His lost sheep. “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.[Matthew 18:12-14] Notice that it is the Shepherd who goes and and finds His lost sheep. He then carries it and place it back in the sheep pen.

Now, take a closer look at Matthew 18:14..."In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish. Now, where else can we find this? Oh, its right here...The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.[2 Peter 3:9] Peter is using the same expression the Christ did. The context of 2 Peter 3:9(as it is written to believers) is that He is not willing(not wanting) any of His sheep(His elect) to perish.

 

[EleventhHour]

I guess He was loving those He drowned when only Noah and all in the ark lived?
I guess He was loving them in Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities as fire and brimstone destroyed them?

Have you read through the thread?
Do you believe in the hypostatic union of the human and divine in Jesus.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Have you read through the thread?

Most of it, but maybe not every post.

Do you believe in the hypostatic union of the human and divine in Jesus.

Yes. Once someone truly grasps the hypostatic union of the Christ, they automatically become reformed.

 

[EleventhHour]

Most of it, but maybe not every post.



Yes. Once someone truly grasps the hypostatic union of the Christ, they automatically become reformed.

Do you agree that God only loves the saved and not the unsaved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In heated topics such as dispensationalism vs covenant theology or this topic, typically what gets users banned is not their viewpoint but how they present that viewpoint.

I've posted multiple times over the life of this thread that people need to discuss the topic, not other users, attack the viewpoint not the character of the viewholder. People who can't discuss divisive topics with minimal civilly should just stay out of the conversation.

Yes, when a topic gets heated, people tend to act out in anger and character attack others, or do other things which are against the rules, and That is what gets people in trouble. That is when it is best to take a break, agree to disagree or just hide the other member if you Feel that continuing will hurt more than help. I will admit I think it hits us all, Stillwater gave me a warning, and I had to leave or put people on ignore, we can not always think we are innocent when everyone is susceptible to over reacting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for hearing me out. It was an enjoyable discussion.

Thanks for a calm discussion even though in the end we could not agree

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Disregard the part of the post in red, I thought that I was posting in "Not By Works" where I have warned numerous times

I wondered about that, I thought I missed some posts..lol You have done it in quite a few threads, usually dealing with grace and works.. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Magenta, I do not know why you think this post of mine was funny. In Romans 9, Paul clearly lays out that God has both vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy. The vessels of mercy were taken from the same lump as the vessels of wrath are in. These two sets of vessels are not intermingled, either. One does not go from a vessel of wrath to a vessel of mercy and vice versa.

God is immutable and He does not change. If He loves the vessels of wrath, and then punishes them in an eternal lake of fire, that in no way, shape, form, or fashion, constitutes love. That is Him pouring His wrath out on the vessels of wrath.

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.[Revelation 14:9-10]

Then there is In the hand of the LORD is a cup full of foaming wine mixed with spices; he pours it out, and all the wicked of the earth drink it down to its very dregs.[Psalm 75:8]

In both places we see God's wrath. There is no love where His wrath is involved. His hatred of ppl is every bit as real as His love is.

I think it is better to go back to the OT passages from where they were quoted. Where god says if he prepairs a vessel for destruction, and that nation repents, he will relent and not destroy it, and if he is building a nation for glory and it rebels he will do it it what he was going do to the other country that repented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sin is a word used by archers. It means to miss the mark. God is all good and he loves us His children. All children have to be taught right - hitting the target-from wrong - missing the target-(sinning).. all anger even God's comes from pain.. God gets angery because he's sees the pain we cause not only ourselves but to others.

Welcome to the site

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Correct. But that does not mean we were vessels of wrath. The believers were no different in their fallen state than those who die lost. And while we were in our fallen state, we were under His wrath, but we were never vessels of wrath.

You need to read jeremiah 18 my friend

 

[Fastfredy0]

Note: I did my best to answer all questions over the last two days to address points raised by those supporting the proposition that GOD LOVES EVERYONE. No one would answer my questions. That does make me correct, but one wonders why. @EleventhHour said she would answer my questions, but has not done so to date.
Will no one take up the cause of GOD LOVES EVERYONE in its defense?

@eternally-gratefull @Sackcloth-N-Ashes


Question 0: Define LOVE in the context of God's LOVES everyone.

Question 1:
Your definition of LOVE ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love: (note: this was @EleventhHour definition and therefore question for her)
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?

Question 2:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?



Question 3:
How can a Holy God love that which is unholy? (i.e. son of Satan) Does He deny His own essence? Can He love that which He is repulsed by?

Question 4:
Faith cometh by hearing so those that do not hear the gospel have no chance of salvation. Assuming you agree with that statement …

Why does God not ensure the gospel (faith cometh by hearing) is sent to those He loves?



Question 5:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in Christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a BIBLICAL definition of love?


Question 6:
What is your explanation for so many verses telling us God hates, loathes, is repulsed by ... those you say He loves? Perhaps you are one of those that says God loves the sinners but not the sin. If so, why doesn't He send the sin to hell and save whatever is left over?


Question 7:
Given:
John 14:21 “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him”
1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

Since:
1) God only loves the obedient only - verse 21 says “[they] shall be loved by the father” it indicates Christians (the elect) only
2) God only loves those that love Him - verse 21
3) Only those who obey God love God - verse 23 and they love because God loved them first (ver. 1 John 4:19)

We can conclude that some undefined measurement of obedience (love) must be present in all believers to be loved by God who only loves Christians.

…………. What is wrong with the logic of question 7


Question 8:
Can you give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to hell (someone nit-picked and said people not in hell yet .. you get what I mean) that God said He loved. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 9:
Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to heaven that God said He hated or loathed or was repulsed by. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 10:
Assuming God loves everyone, one assume God would not favor any group of people and therefore each group would be represented in heaven by relatively proportional numbers. Assuming you agree with this statement … Why do we see such disproportionality. Consider: 1 Corinthians 1:26Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

 

[EleventhHour]

Note: I did my best to answer all questions over the last two days to address points raised by those supporting the proposition that GOD LOVES EVERYONE. No one would answer my questions. That does make me correct, but one wonders why. @EleventhHour said she would answer my questions, but has not done so to date.
Will no one take up the cause of GOD LOVES EVERYONE in its defense?

@eternally-gratefull @Sackcloth-N-Ashes


Question 0: Define LOVE in the context of God's LOVES everyone.

Question 1:
Your definition of LOVE ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love: (note: this was @EleventhHour definition and therefore question for her)
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?

Question 2:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?



Question 3:
How can a Holy God love that which is unholy? (i.e. son of Satan) Does He deny His own essence? Can He love that which He is repulsed by?

Question 4:
Faith cometh by hearing so those that do not hear the gospel have no chance of salvation. Assuming you agree with that statement …

Why does God not ensure the gospel (faith cometh by hearing) is sent to those He loves?



Question 5:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in Christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a BIBLICAL definition of love?


Question 6:
What is your explanation for so many verses telling us God hates, loathes, is repulsed by ... those you say He loves? Perhaps you are one of those that says God loves the sinners but not the sin. If so, why doesn't He send the sin to hell and save whatever is left over?


Question 7:
Given:
John 14:21 “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him”
1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

Since:
1) God only loves the obedient only - verse 21 says “[they] shall be loved by the father” it indicates Christians (the elect) only
2) God only loves those that love Him - verse 21
3) Only those who obey God love God - verse 23 and they love because God loved them first (ver. 1 John 4:19)

We can conclude that some undefined measurement of obedience (love) must be present in all believers to be loved by God who only loves Christians.

…………. What is wrong with the logic of question 7


Question 8:
Can you give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to hell (someone nit-picked and said people not in hell yet .. you get what I mean) that God said He loved. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 9:
Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to heaven that God said He hated or loathed or was repulsed by. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 10:
Assuming God loves everyone, one assume God would not favor any group of people and therefore each group would be represented in heaven by relatively proportional numbers. Assuming you agree with this statement … Why do we see such disproportionality. Consider: 1 Corinthians 1:26Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

Working on it!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You need to read jeremiah 18 my friend

I have. In fact, I’m reading through it again. Haven’t gotten back to that chapter just yet.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think it is better to go back to the OT passages from where they were quoted. Where god says if he prepairs a vessel for destruction, and that nation repents, he will relent and not destroy it, and if he is building a nation for glory and it rebels he will do it it what he was going do to the other country that repented.

Okay, you show me the places God’s wrath is meted out(or to be meted out as we read through Revelation) where His wrath upon those it’s upon receive love from Him.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Note: I did my best to answer all questions over the last two days to address points raised by those supporting the proposition that GOD LOVES EVERYONE. No one would answer my questions. That does make me correct, but one wonders why. @EleventhHour said she would answer my questions, but has not done so to date.
Will no one take up the cause of GOD LOVES EVERYONE in its defense?

@eternally-gratefull @Sackcloth-N-Ashes


Question 0: Define LOVE in the context of God's LOVES everyone.

Question 1:
Your definition of LOVE ... Take pleasure in is a definition of God's Love: (note: this was @EleventhHour definition and therefore question for her)
Does God "take pleasure in" the wicked as much as he does those IN CHRIST ????

If your answer is NO. Would that not be good reason to say "God does not love everyone the same amount"?

Question 2:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a definition of love?



Question 3:
How can a Holy God love that which is unholy? (i.e. son of Satan) Does He deny His own essence? Can He love that which He is repulsed by?

Question 4:
Faith cometh by hearing so those that do not hear the gospel have no chance of salvation. Assuming you agree with that statement …

Why does God not ensure the gospel (faith cometh by hearing) is sent to those He loves?



Question 5:
Colossians 3:14 Beyond all these things put on and wrap yourselves in [unselfish] love, which is the perfect bond of unity [for everything is bound together in agreement when each one seeks the best
Here is a biblical definition of love (perfect bond of unity). I understand how those "in Christ" have a perfect bond of unity. How do you propose unbelievers (son of Satan) have a perfect bond of unity with God which is a BIBLICAL definition of love?


Question 6:
What is your explanation for so many verses telling us God hates, loathes, is repulsed by ... those you say He loves? Perhaps you are one of those that says God loves the sinners but not the sin. If so, why doesn't He send the sin to hell and save whatever is left over?


Question 7:
Given:
John 14:21 “He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father… 23 If a man loves Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him”
1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.

Since:
1) God only loves the obedient only - verse 21 says “[they] shall be loved by the father” it indicates Christians (the elect) only
2) God only loves those that love Him - verse 21
3) Only those who obey God love God - verse 23 and they love because God loved them first (ver. 1 John 4:19)

We can conclude that some undefined measurement of obedience (love) must be present in all believers to be loved by God who only loves Christians.

…………. What is wrong with the logic of question 7


Question 8:
Can you give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to hell (someone nit-picked and said people not in hell yet .. you get what I mean) that God said He loved. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 9:
Give examples of biblical person's name(s) we know went to heaven that God said He hated or loathed or was repulsed by. Admittedly, no examples do not prove my point but is circumstantial evidence, but is strong evidence for yours.


Question 10:
Assuming God loves everyone, one assume God would not favor any group of people and therefore each group would be represented in heaven by relatively proportional numbers. Assuming you agree with this statement … Why do we see such disproportionality. Consider: 1 Corinthians 1:26Brothers, consider the time of your calling: Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were powerful; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

I don’t think He loves everyone. In Romans 9 He is patient with the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. But that’s because He is withholding His full wrath from being poured out until the last sheep is gathered into the sheep pen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have. In fact, I’m reading through it again. Haven’t gotten back to that chapter just yet.

Focus on these verses

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it,10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

even vessels prepaired for wrath can willfully repent and god will repent concerning his plan of destruction.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I don’t think He loves everyone. In Romans 9 He is patient with the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. But that’s because He is withholding His full wrath from being poured out until the last sheep is gathered into the sheep pen.

I sort of thought you believed as I did .. that God does NOT love everyone ... (unless you define LOVE as minimally as "The sun shines and the rain falls of the good and wicked". Just wanted to FYI you on my post saying NO ONE answered my questions. Eleventh is working on it to her credit.