God LIED!

[dcontroversal]

Yes, the thief on the cross did keep a commandment. He believed on the Son of God.

He that says he knows God and does not keep God's commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scripture. Can't help you in that case.

Wrong answer...I am indeed arguing with your working for drivel....

Since when did faith become a commandment to keep?
Who gives faith
Who Begins faith
Who finishes faith
Who completes faith

If you say anyone other than JESUS your false......

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, we are saved by Grace. Grace that not only forgives, it also sets free, if we do not resist it.

You just said the thief was saved by keeping a commandment....so which is it....keep a commandment or by GRACE

one or the other..........which is it.....very fickle indeed

 

[Poinsetta]

That’s a lot of Verdicts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The same thing I and others always say and get accused of "works salvation"[;quote]
Well lets get to the heart of the matter

Do you believe salvation can be lost? Ie. Must be maintained or that somene who is saved must follow the law or else?

I agree that we are not saved or kept by works. I believe we are kept by the power of God through faith. But some even argue against that.

Well yes, thise who think salvation can be lost argue against that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but the point is it grows and bears fruit. This does not jibe with the idea that has been promoted that as long as you believe for even just a moment, you're saved no matter what. That is not the kind of faith that the Holy Spirit produces. Does God not finish the work He started

Yes, it will take a while to grow, but grow we will

John said we can KNOW we have eternal life,

I think it will trust john whomsaid our life is forever, no matter what. And this is the basis of me conti uing to believe

 

[Sketch]

Yes Sketch, God's grace, His mercy towards us is the gift of God toward us who believe in Christ.
To believe in Christ is to believe in Christs Way of love, truth, justice, humility, and more.
If you believe in Christ and His Way, you will then love Christ, and naturally do His commands.

Do His commands? Like these?

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

 

[Macabeus]

What if it grows for three years and then gets burnt in a forest fire before it bears one apple? DID it ever stop being an apple tree?

Jesus said "if you abide in me, you will bear MUCH fruit". What kind of Christian is this that HAS NEVER ABIDED IN JESUS?

 

[Macabeus]

John said we can KNOW we have eternal life,

You forgot to read the rest of the book

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Is it possible to be saved and not know God?

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Has a person who does not love the brethren passed from death to life?

1 John 3:18-19- My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

I think it will trust john whom said our life is forever, no matter what. And this is the basis of me conti uing to believe

The key word is BASIS. The basis for our keeping God's commandments, and loving the brethren, and loving God, and bearing fruit, is not to obtain eternal life, nor is it to retain eternal life, the basis is because WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. In other words, if you have eternal life, there will be fruit and love and obedience, albeit not perfection.

 

[Macabeus]

Do His commands? Like these?

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

1 John 2:4-5
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


1 john 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that lovesis born of God, and knowsGod. 8. He that does not love, does not know God for God is love

1 John 5: 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

[Macabeus]

Saved so as by fire.......works burnt to a crisp

Cut loose for the destruction of the flesh

Burn inheritance through riotous living <--Prodigal

All three exceptions to your hard, fast rules....

What fruit, commandment or obedience did the thief on the cross exemplify?

Did he do any good?
Did he keep any commandment?
What obedience was found in his last moments as he suffocated with broken legs while being put to death as a criminal?

a. works burnt to a crisp.

EVERY christian is going to have some works burnt to a crisp...

b. Cut loose for the destruction of the flesh

THAT THE SPIRIT might be saved in the day of the Lord. In other words, physical chastisement leading to repentance for the purpose of saving a soul from JUDGEMENT

c. Burn inheritance through riotous living.

You mean the prodigal who was LOST and DEAD? The prodigal represents sinners coming to Jesus. Remember? The setting and occasion of the parable of the prodigal son was publicans and sinners coming to Jesus and the scribes and pharisees murmuring about it?

d. What fruit, commandment or obedience did the thief on the cross exemplify?

Faith in Jesus. Faith is a FRUIT of the Spirit. SO is love. What kind of Christian doesnt do these? One who is a Christian in name only.

He that says he knows God and does not keep God's commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4) You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scripture. Can't help you in that case.

 

[Macabeus]

AMEN.....another one that helps JESUS finish what he already promised to finish and complete........

ALL JESUS or fraudulent.....

Strawman argument, LOL. IF YOU UNDERSTOOD what Jesus meant when He said "I am the vine and you are the branches" you would not debate me on this.

You just said the thief was saved by keeping a commandment....so which is it....keep a commandment or by GRACE

I don't seperate friends like Grace and Faith. Since when did Grace and Faith become enemies? (and where did I say saved BY keeping a commandment. We are saved by Grace through faith, therefore it is grace that saves us, but it is through faith)

 

[Macabeus]

Wrong answer...I am indeed arguing with your working for drivel....

Since when did faith become a commandment to keep?


If you say anyone other than JESUS your false......

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

Who gives faith
Who Begins faith
Who finishes faith
Who completes faith

All God. to argue that I am saying otherwise is a strawman. Jesus said "I am the vine, you are the branches".

that true believers love, keep the commandments, and bear fruit is not saying that we are helping Jesus save us. That is absolute sophistry.

I am saying that it is the VINE that gives life to the branches. The vine produces the fruit, not us.

You have enough strawman to build a scarecrow army.

 

[dcontroversal]

Strawman argument, LOL. IF YOU UNDERSTOOD what Jesus meant when He said "I am the vine and you are the branches" you would not debate me on this.



I don't seperate friends like Grace and Faith. Since when did Grace and Faith become enemies? (and where did I say saved BY keeping a commandment. We are saved by Grace through faith, therefore it is grace that saves us, but it is through faith)

Does no good to debate one who is deceptive......nor one who denies what they have said and or one who twists the word as you do......
and you are obviously MISSING who the commandment was given to.....but hey.......par for the course from one that cannot keep it straight.......you have a lot to unlearn and relearn if you are going to be right by God......

 

[dcontroversal]

Strawman argument, LOL. IF YOU UNDERSTOOD what Jesus meant when He said "I am the vine and you are the branches" you would not debate me on this.



I don't seperate friends like Grace and Faith. Since when did Grace and Faith become enemies? (and where did I say saved BY keeping a commandment. We are saved by Grace through faith, therefore it is grace that saves us, but it is through faith)

dcontroversal said:
AMEN.....another one that helps JESUS finish what he already promised to finish and complete........

ALL JESUS or fraudulent..... <-----FACTUAL......go ahead and help JESUS.....see how that works out for you

 

[louis]

Do His commands? Like these?

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Yes, like those commands, they who give up everything they have to go and follow Christ who become His disciples will do.
I know many here claim themselves disciples of Christ, but I know that I do not meet the criteria.
How about you Sketch, are you a disciple of Christ?

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said "if you abide in me, you will bear MUCH fruit". What kind of Christian is this that HAS NEVER ABIDED IN JESUS?

See....no honesty.......try again.....

Is an apple tree and apple tree fro the moment it sprouts?
If it grows three years and is burnt in a forest fire did it ever stop being an apple tree?

You cannot HONESTLY answer which TELLS ALL how deceptive people like you really are..................!!

 

[dcontroversal]

a. works burnt to a crisp.

EVERY christian is going to have some works burnt to a crisp...

b. Cut loose for the destruction of the flesh

THAT THE SPIRIT might be saved in the day of the Lord. In other words, physical chastisement leading to repentance for the purpose of saving a soul from JUDGEMENT

c. Burn inheritance through riotous living.

You mean the prodigal who was LOST and DEAD? The prodigal represents sinners coming to Jesus. Remember? The setting and occasion of the parable of the prodigal son was publicans and sinners coming to Jesus and the scribes and pharisees murmuring about it?

d. What fruit, commandment or obedience did the thief on the cross exemplify?

Faith in Jesus. Faith is a FRUIT of the Spirit. SO is love. What kind of Christian doesnt do these? One who is a Christian in name only.

He that says he knows God and does not keep God's commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4) You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scripture. Can't help you in that case.

False, false and false........you need to read more....

1. SOME will have works of God, silver and precious stones <--does not say they have works that are burnt, but rather purified
2. Does not say the Prodigal was lost and DEAD......he was very much alive and only perceived as dead......AT WHAT POINT WAS He not a SON......go ahead and tell us when he was NOT A SON

AND like normal....you conflate justification and salvation with SANCTIFICATION.......

The error of many like you with eternal consequence........

 

[louis]

We really should be careful in not accusing each other, as it is the spirit of satan.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Repost due to my error in quoting

The same thing I and others always say and get accused of "works salvation"

Well lets get to the heart of the matter

Do you believe salvation can be lost? Ie. Must be maintained or that somene who is saved must follow the law or else?

I agree that we are not saved or kept by works. I believe we are kept by the power of God through faith. But some even argue against that.

Well yes, those who think salvation can be lost argue against that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You forgot to read the rest of the book

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Is it possible to be saved and not know God?

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Has a person who does not love the brethren passed from death to life?

1 John 3:18-19- My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

No i did not misread at all, again those are characteristics of those who are saved, not prerequisites of getting or maintaining salvation

No one here demies this, yet you keep attacking them, then wonder why your seen as a legalist, you dig your own grave

The key word is BASIS. The basis for our keeping God's commandments, and loving the brethren, and loving God, and bearing fruit, is not to obtain eternal life, nor is it to retain eternal life, the basis is because WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. In other words, if you have eternal life, there will be fruit and love and obedience, albeit not perfection.

And no one is arguing this, yet you keep pushing they do

Once again your digging your own grave, stop feeling sorry for yurself because you refuse to listen to what peopl say,

Oh and ps, in case your wondering, there will be many baby christians who produced little fruit because they did not grow, in heaven right beside the people, who matured and produced great masses of fruit.

God loves them all, because they are his children. He adopted them, he saved them, he gave them eternal life, and he will not go back on his word!