getting dates about a young earth

[Dan_473]

Why not the literal meaning? Just the info about how old they were in these days.

great!, so, using the literal meaning, one can add up the years from noah to abraham... a date for the flood can be arrived at... I think it's a late date, though... also the years from adam to noah.

 

[Dan_473]

I dont know, I dont care about psychological theories so much. I accept the Bible story of Eden. Psychology, sociology etc are not the "hard science" where everything has to be per-reviewed and testable.

if you accept the story of eden, great!

I think it is very well accepted in hard science that snakes are not capable of language. how do you view the talking snake?

 

[Dan_473]

It quite depends on your translation wording. I would say God gave the green plants to eat for all animals. Not "only", but they can eat that.
You can realize, that God allowed people eat meat after the flood, but no such thing occur to animals, so they were always allowed to eat meat too.

yes, that some animals ate meat, but could eat plants, can be squeezed into the wording. do you believe that there were a number of carnivores at the time of adam who ate mostly meat, as it is today?

would you agree, then, that humans ate only plants until after the flood? in your view, does mainstream science agree with this?

 

[Dan_473]

Can be, but we are not talking about evolution, but about the age of universe. Its a question, if evolution of humans is proved or not. If it would be really proved, we would have to look for the right explanation of the creation of Adam, I dont think it is proved yet, its only a working hypothesis.

I think whether or not humans evolved will affect one's calculation of the age of the universe.

do you believe eve was a product of evolution, or was she formed out of adam's rib?

what would it take to prove evolution to you? what has it taken to prove an old universe to you?

 

[Dan_473]

trofimus,

Mimochodem , jsem velmi zapůsobilo s vaší anglicky . Je to mnohem lepší než můj češtiny. Produkoval službu Google Translate.

[By the way, I'm very impressed with your english. It's way better than my Czech. Produced by google translate.]

 

[Dan_473]

How do you deal with the different genealogies across the Old Testament manuscripts? Meaning, what's your understanding of the difference between the chronologies of the Masoretic Text, Septuagint, and Samaritan Pentateuch in Genesis 5 and 11?

an excellent question...

I suppose I would decide which text was the most reliable, and go with it...

what dates are given from the different versions? my understanding was that none of them added up to more than a few thousand years...

myself, I lean towards the lxx... but I use the Masoretic here because more people in the forum trust it.

 

[Dan_473]

You can never prove that God didn't create the universe with the appearance of old age (though why he would need or want to do such a thing is beyond me)

one reason I think the actual history of the universe is different from the apparent history is because of adam. when God finishes forming adam out of the dust, the actual history of adam is different from his apparent history.

I think when a miracle is involved, observational data becomes unreliable.

so, the genesis stories... are they a set of many miracles? or just ways of talking about a single miracle, which could be that first tiny speck that exploded into the universe, then evolved according to the same physical laws we observe today?

 

[abcdef]

Adam and Eve were real people. They lived on this planet in a place today that we would call a "rain forest" type of environment where it was watered by a mist Gen 2/6.
God through Moses tells us what happened to them. It is a true story about the human souls.
This term "human soul" is describing a spirit that is in a covenant relationship with God. A spirit that is designed to be redeemed by the blood of Jesus and have a special place with Him in heaven.
These "human souls" can know the difference between good and evil. Animal and other spirits don't know the difference, that is why they don't need the blood of Jesus.
The story tells how evil entered the mind of the human souls and the consequences.
The events that changed their surroundings really happened, but are described by Moses through symbolism so all people through time can understand.

I think that people want to know how God created the human souls.

Did every thing just pop into existence (popcorn theory) or did the eternal God take His time? (He had all the time in the world, ha ha). Seriously, Christians are searching for the answers.

Is the world flat?
There were many other creatures who were "almost human souls", they were not in the covenant with the "human souls".
Adam and Eve walked with God, but as sin increased they fell further from God. Soon they found themselves in a world of people who were more animal (worldly, selfish, ego) than spiritual (loving, Godly, giving). Cain left and lived with the "almost human souls".
Even today this war between good (love) and evil(no love) goes on.

The idea is to identify the truth from correctly understanding the symbolic meaning.
People try to prove that the Bible is true, but it will remain a matter of faith in love until He comes.

 

[truthman8]

I'm afraid everyone is wrong with these antiquated dates about the flood and the creation of Adam. The Flood occurred 3820 years from the Cross with Jesus at 32 years old. Three things indicate this. Ezra closely estimates the date of Adam to 5500 years BC. In II Esdras, he dates the time of Adam at 5000 years from his time at very close to 500 bc. This is because there are two missing time periods in the Bible. One is 1258 years from the death of Joseph to the beginning of the Captivity in Egypt. The other is 2 years in the 70 years of Exile. There were two 1 yr. breaks in the siege of Jerusalem. The second indicator is the recurring 1000 year famines. One occurred in 2200 BC. A massive famine dried up Egypt, the Nile, and the Middle East, ending the pyramid age. My findings indicate that the famine of Joseph happened 3240 from the Cross, almost exactly 1000 years back. It was massive also, and everyone came down into Egypt for grain from Joseph. Interesting also is that I found a reference for another famine 1000 years later in 1200 BC. The Romans mentioned a famine in 200 BC. In 800 AD I can't find a mention of any famine, though there might have been one. I don't know of one in 1800 either. This is still a mystery, and I have not heard any scientists mentioning this, though the one in 2200 BC was discussed on a History Channel episode. The third is my "Designed Plan of History" in my book. of the 6000, 2000, and 1000 year history of the Adamic age, the plan itself is 5994 on the left side, and 3078 on the right. Of this range, all but the 1260 years mentioned are accounted for. Adam was created 5508 from the Cross with Jesus at 32, very close to Ezra's 5500 yr period. Ezra claimed to know the exact day of Adam's creation, but we don't know the day of that particular writing.

 

[Tintin]

Your dates are wrong. Also, Jesus was 33.5 when he died, not 32. Finally, creation is around 6,000 years old. We can't calculate it exactly.

 

[truthman8]

All dates for the time of the Flood and the creation of Adam are wrong. The Flood occurred at 3820 years from the Cross with Jesus at 32 years old. Three things indicate this. Ezra closely estimates the date of Adam to 5500 years BC. In II Esdras, he dates the time of Adam at 5000 years from his time at very close to 500 bc. This is because there are two missing time periods in the Bible. One is 1258 years from the death of Joseph to the beginning of the Captivity in Egypt. The other is 2 years in the 70 years of Exile. There were two 1 yr. breaks in the siege of Jerusalem. The second indicator is the recurring 1000 year famines. One occurred in 2200 BC. A massive famine dried up Egypt, the Nile, and the Middle East, ending the pyramid age. My findings indicate that the famine of Joseph happened 3240 from the Cross, almost exactly 1000 years back. It was massive also, and everyone came down into Egypt for grain from Joseph. Interesting also is that I found a reference for another famine 1000 years later in 1200 BC. The Romans mentioned a famine in 200 BC. In 800 AD I can't find a mention of any famine, though there might have been one. I don't know of one in 1800 either. This is still a mystery, and I have not heard any scientists mentioning this, though the one in 2200 BC was discussed on a History Channel episode. The third is my "Designed Plan of History" in my book. of the 6000, 2000, and 1000 year history of the Adamic age, the plan itself is 5994 on the left side, and 3078 on the right. Of this range, all but the 1260 years mentioned are accounted for. Adam was created 5508 from the Cross with Jesus at 32, very close to Ezra's 5500 yr period. Ezra claimed to know the exact day of Adam's creation, but we don't know the day of that particular writing.

 

[Tintin]

All dates for the time of the Flood and the creation of Adam are wrong. The Flood occurred at 3820 years from the Cross with Jesus at 32 years old. Three things indicate this. Ezra closely estimates the date of Adam to 5500 years BC. In II Esdras, he dates the time of Adam at 5000 years from his time at very close to 500 bc. This is because there are two missing time periods in the Bible. One is 1258 years from the death of Joseph to the beginning of the Captivity in Egypt. The other is 2 years in the 70 years of Exile. There were two 1 yr. breaks in the siege of Jerusalem. The second indicator is the recurring 1000 year famines. One occurred in 2200 BC. A massive famine dried up Egypt, the Nile, and the Middle East, ending the pyramid age. My findings indicate that the famine of Joseph happened 3240 from the Cross, almost exactly 1000 years back. It was massive also, and everyone came down into Egypt for grain from Joseph. Interesting also is that I found a reference for another famine 1000 years later in 1200 BC. The Romans mentioned a famine in 200 BC. In 800 AD I can't find a mention of any famine, though there might have been one. I don't know of one in 1800 either. This is still a mystery, and I have not heard any scientists mentioning this, though the one in 2200 BC was discussed on a History Channel episode. The third is my "Designed Plan of History" in my book. of the 6000, 2000, and 1000 year history of the Adamic age, the plan itself is 5994 on the left side, and 3078 on the right. Of this range, all but the 1260 years mentioned are accounted for. Adam was created 5508 from the Cross with Jesus at 32, very close to Ezra's 5500 yr period. Ezra claimed to know the exact day of Adam's creation, but we don't know the day of that particular writing.

II Esdras is not an inspired work of Holy Spirit. It is apocryphal and therefore historically and culturally interesting in that it helps us understand the mindset of the times in which it was written, but nothing more.

 

[Dino246]

All dates for the time of the Flood and the creation of Adam are wrong.

The problem with statements like this is that they include your own views as well. Your posts are taking information from extra-biblical sources, and seem to put it across in a somewhat dogmatic tone. Anything extra-biblical is going to be treated with suspicion when someone claims that it "proves" the Bible wrong.

You've repeated most of the first post in the second; this is not necessary. Just so you know.

You also might want to consider breaking your text into paragraphs of 4-7 lines each, separated by blank spaces; this makes it much easier to read, and more likely that others will read it instead of skipping over the 'wall of text'.

 

[Tintin]

All dates for the time of the Flood and the creation of Adam are wrong. The Flood occurred at 3820 years from the Cross with Jesus at 32 years old. Three things indicate this. Ezra closely estimates the date of Adam to 5500 years BC. In II Esdras, he dates the time of Adam at 5000 years from his time at very close to 500 bc. This is because there are two missing time periods in the Bible. One is 1258 years from the death of Joseph to the beginning of the Captivity in Egypt. The other is 2 years in the 70 years of Exile. There were two 1 yr. breaks in the siege of Jerusalem. The second indicator is the recurring 1000 year famines. One occurred in 2200 BC. A massive famine dried up Egypt, the Nile, and the Middle East, ending the pyramid age. My findings indicate that the famine of Joseph happened 3240 from the Cross, almost exactly 1000 years back. It was massive also, and everyone came down into Egypt for grain from Joseph. Interesting also is that I found a reference for another famine 1000 years later in 1200 BC. The Romans mentioned a famine in 200 BC. In 800 AD I can't find a mention of any famine, though there might have been one. I don't know of one in 1800 either. This is still a mystery, and I have not heard any scientists mentioning this, though the one in 2200 BC was discussed on a History Channel episode. The third is my "Designed Plan of History" in my book. of the 6000, 2000, and 1000 year history of the Adamic age, the plan itself is 5994 on the left side, and 3078 on the right. Of this range, all but the 1260 years mentioned are accounted for. Adam was created 5508 from the Cross with Jesus at 32, very close to Ezra's 5500 yr period. Ezra claimed to know the exact day of Adam's creation, but we don't know the day of that particular writing.

Also, only 215 years passed between the time Jacob entered Egypt with his family and the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. That's very different to your belief that 1,258 years passed from the death of Joseph to the beginning of their captivity in Egypt. Finally, the History Channel is bollocks. I wouldn't believe a word they said about anything.

 

[truthman8]

II Esdras is not an inspired work of Holy Spirit. It is apocryphal and therefore historically and culturally interesting in that it helps us understand the mindset of the times in which it was written, but nothing more.

I disagree. II Esdras was once included as part of the Bible. How do you know it wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit? Name one thing wrong with it. We only know that something is inspired by the Holy Spirit if it is consistent with the Bible and truth itself. Ezra was a prophet and scribe. Remember that Ezra also gave the 12 parts of the life of the world. I happen to understand this. It stretches from 10,000 bc when Satan first ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to the Second Coming. This is 12,000 years. The life of the "world" is the age of the fallen human race.

 

[Tintin]

I disagree. II Esdras was once included as part of the Bible. How do you know it wasn't inspired by the Holy Spirit? Name one thing wrong with it. We only know that something is inspired by the Holy Spirit if it is consistent with the Bible and truth itself. Ezra was a prophet and scribe. Remember that Ezra also gave the 12 parts of the life of the world. I happen to understand this. It stretches from 10,000 bc when Satan first ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to the Second Coming. This is 12,000 years. The life of the "world" is the age of the fallen human race.

I know Ezra was both a prophet and a scribe, that doesn't mean he wrote II Esdras. Jesus never referred back to the book of II Esdras, that's a big knock against it. I remember that II Esdras says that Ezra gave the 12 parts of the life of the world, but that doesn't make it true. I think you're very confused. You're taking apocryphal literature as truth. It's not.

 

[truthman8]

Also, only 215 years passed between the time Jacob entered Egypt with his family and the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. That's very different to your belief that 1,258 years passed from the death of Joseph to the beginning of their captivity in Egypt. Finally, the History Channel is bollocks. I wouldn't believe a word they said about anything.

What? 215 is way, way off. Even if you don't believe my 1258 years, 70 + 430 years (500 years) passed from the time Jacob went down into Egypt to the Exodus in 1480 from the Cross. Remember that God told Abraham his people would be in Captivity for 400 years, so we can assume that 430 is the exact number of years. Also, 75 people of Jacob's family started the nation of Israel. On page 1 of Exodus we see that from that nucleus and great and mighty people developed, so strong that even Egypt was afraid of them. This takes a good long time, and at the Exodus the Hebrews were about a million strong.

 

[Tintin]

What? 215 is way, way off. Even if you don't believe my 1258 years, 70 + 430 years (500 years) passed from the time Jacob went down into Egypt to the Exodus in 1480 from the Cross. Remember that God told Abraham his people would be in Captivity for 400 years, so we can assume that 430 is the exact number of years. Also, 75 people of Jacob's family started the nation of Israel. On page 1 of Exodus we see that from that nucleus and great and mighty people developed, so strong that even Egypt was afraid of them. This takes a good long time, and at the Exodus the Hebrews were about a million strong.

Here's a great article that breaks it down for you. And yes, from 75 people Jacob's family multiplied to maybe 2,000,000 strong at the time of the Exodus (there were 600,000 men, so there would've been many more women and children).

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/how-long-were-the-israelites-in-egypt/

 

[truthman8]

I know Ezra was both a prophet and a scribe, that doesn't mean he wrote II Esdras. Jesus never referred back to the book of II Esdras, that's a big knock against it. I remember that II Esdras says that Ezra gave the 12 parts of the life of the world, but that doesn't make it true. I think you're very confused. You're taking apocryphal literature as truth. It's not.

It doesn't mean he didn't either. Jesus didn't have time to reference the whole Torah. Enoch's books were considered to be Apocryphal, but Moses believed they were authentic. So did Isaiah and Ezekiel. The Essenes believed them, and included them in their collection found at Qumran. The Jubilees of the Hebrews mention the watchers of Enoch, so are they not true? You understand very little of the Bible, and thus have a very narrow scope of it.

 

[Tintin]

It doesn't mean he didn't either. Jesus didn't have time to reference the whole Torah. Enoch's books were considered to be Apocryphal, but Moses believed they were authentic. So did Isaiah and Ezekiel. The Essenes believed them, and included them in their collection found at Qumran. The Jubilees of the Hebrews mention the watchers of Enoch, so are they not true? You understand very little of the Bible, and thus have a very narrow scope of it.

Jesus referenced every book of the Bible. He didn't reference any of the apocryphal books. And Moses didn't believe Enoch's books were authentic because they were written long after he had died. Long, long after. And the other books you mentioned are not inspired either. Let's not forgot Jewish people believe all kinds of mysticism that just isn't biblical (so they're not barometers of truth, God's Word is). I may not understand heaps of the Bible, but I seem to understand far more than you do.