getting dates about a young earth

[Tintin]

It is so funny how can someone in those days had known about the ringwoodite.

Job 38:30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?

Well, yes. But it makes sense. The whole Bible, while written by men of God, was breathed to them by Holy Spirit. So it's fascinating to see what God reveals well before science catches up.

 

[valiant]

I can see that. for me, if one wants to go with mainstream science, it makes sense to regard the genesis stories as being told in a mythic format.

for a primitive people to try to tell an epic story, they're going to use a mythic format. so when God says, "Let there be light", it means the whole electro-magnetic spectrum... but they had not word for that, so they said, "Light".


similarly, "All the high mountains that were under the whole sky were covered" means just the mountains in that area.

a question that arises for me when I think in those terms is when to set aside the myth. for example, a talking snake? that sounds like more story told in a mythic format.

I wouldn't call it them myths. They were history written in terms of their day.

A talking snake would be no difficulty to Satan. He tempted through the serpent,

 

[valiant]

how does seas breaking in fit with an ice age?

did noah's ark save his fam from an ice age? maybe... I'm not being silly, I'm interested in how this fits together for you.

the ice melting would cause the seas to surge. The middle east was probably not too affected, but God would know the effects.

I don't understand your sentence

"why do we need to match it with mainstream science which is negative?"

my impression was that you liked to fit mainstream science into the genesis stories. was I wrong?

what mainstream science? The different hypotheses and theories of science are wide and varied. I simply try to interpret Scripture,,

 

[valiant]

I know the Flood was referred to as ancient by the Sumerian king lists, but that doesn't mean that they were (again, ancient cultures loved to claim they were more ancient than their neighbours). Not to mention Sumerians were notorious for mixing real world history with mythology, so to them the pre-Flood world was recognised as the ancient past, a time they talked about with reverence but that no-one remembered themselves.[/quote}

you suck up anything d change it around. you cannot avoid history.

Widespread floods/global. Reading the Flood accounts, they most certainly weren't local floods. There's a common thread running through many of them.

No one said it was a local flood. it was a massive flood. But only wide-world as they knew it, the Biblical account is quite clear,

According to who? I said that the secular timeline needs to be adjusted to the biblical timeline. You don't listen very well, do you?

lol you assume a Biblical time line. I have demonstrated that YOUR Biblical timeline is untenable. Having Shem living when Abraham died, and totally ignored in the writings, is untenable.

The Ice Age wasn't unrecorded.

Cite the records.

Of course, history can't be changed, but it's viewed primarily through an evolutionary philosophical perspective and those false presuppositions lead to false conclusions.

so do your ideas lead to false conclusions.

I don't infer it, the Bible infers it.

Rubbish, YOU infer it from the Bible.

Take off your crappy evolutionary glasses and put on some Bible specs. You might see something

LOL I can't take them off. I haven't got them on. I'm interpreting Scripture meaningfully without fallowing your methods..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, yes. But it makes sense. The whole Bible, while written by men of God, was breathed to them by Holy Spirit. So it's fascinating to see what God reveals well before science catches up.

It is even amazing to us when the light goes on, and we finally realise what God was talking about all those years ago..

Scripture comes more alive! Praise God.

 

[Dan_473]

The Hebrew translated firmament means a metal plate, or a firm plate. I was reading where some scientist was saying he thought it was the crust, separating the inner waters, from the ocean or visible waters.

The theory is that this plate split open, causing the fountains of the great deep (the waters below the crust) to burst open, causing the flood..

It is an interesting theory, I am still studying it.

certainly possible... myself, I think the firmament is the sky because that's where the birds fly and the sun, moom, stars are... sky here would mean outer space, too...

 

[Dan_473]

I wouldn't call it them myths. They were history written in terms of their day.

A talking snake would be no difficulty to Satan. He tempted through the serpent,

ok... yes, I'm willing to explore the idea of stories written in the terms of that day. but then, a talking snake might just be the best term they had for whatever it was.

so, "All the high mountains that were under the whole sky were covered" means just the mountains in that area, because that's all they had terms for.

then too, when God says, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground — man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky" it would mean just the humans and animals in that area... that area being all the writer knew about...

 

[Dan_473]

the ice melting would cause the seas to surge. The middle east was probably not too affected, but God would know the effects.

so I'm trying to follow this... there's an ice age, which would make the sea level a lot lower... then the ice melts, the earth becomes much warmer, the sea level covers a lot more land... but this would happen slowly, wouldn't it?

 

[Dan_473]

what mainstream science? The different hypotheses and theories of science are wide and varied. I simply try to interpret Scripture,,

I use "mainstream science" to mean what most textbooks, classes, scientists at secular universities would talk about.

interpreting scripture, yes! so... is it better to first read the story and see what it means, or decide what it means based on what we know from mainstream science?

 

[Dan_473]

No one said it was a local flood. it was a massive flood. But only wide-world as they knew it, the Biblical account is quite clear.

how large of an area do you feel it was?

 

[valiant]

ok... yes, I'm willing to explore the idea of stories written in the terms of that day. but then, a talking snake might just be the best term they had for whatever it was.

so, "All the high mountains that were under the whole sky were covered" means just the mountains in that area, because that's all they had terms for.

then too, when God says, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the surface of the ground — man, along with animals, creeping things, and birds of the sky" it would mean just the humans and animals in that area... that area being all the writer knew about...

All humans would be in the area involved,

 

[valiant]

I use "mainstream science" to mean what most textbooks, classes, scientists at secular universities would talk about.

The textbooks are based on old outdated theories,. We have to go to those at the cutting edge. Recent investigation give a wide range of ages of the earth at a much lower level than billions years,

interpreting scripture, yes! so... is it better to first read the story and see what it means, or decide what it means based on what we know from mainstream science?

read the account and see what it actually says. It is concerned with who and why, It does not comment on how and when.

 

[valiant]

how large of an area do you feel it was?

as far as mankind had reached. So pretty large,

 

[valiant]

so I'm trying to follow this... there's an ice age, which would make the sea level a lot lower... then the ice melts, the earth becomes much warmer, the sea level covers a lot more land... but this would happen slowly, wouldn't it?

it would happen at the rate God chose, we do not know what effects the ice age might have. But it would certainly increase the water available

 

[Dan_473]

All humans would be in the area involved,

ok, I'm interested in seeing how large that area was, in your view... hopefully I'll see it as I go through the posts.

in your view, are all the animals in the area of the flood? none have moved away?

 

[Dan_473]

The textbooks are based on old outdated theories,. We have to go to those at the cutting edge. Recent investigation give a wide range of ages of the earth at a much lower level than billions years,

what research is it, and what range of ages does it give? does it yield any age information about the sun?

 

[Dan_473]

read the account and see what it actually says. It is concerned with who and why, It does not comment on how and when.

myself, I disagree that it doesn't talk about how and when.

I think this talks about when and how, "In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep were burst open, and the sky’s windows were opened."

 

[Dan_473]

as far as mankind had reached. So pretty large,

maybe the size of the current middle-east? in your view, what kept the water confined to that area?

 

[Dan_473]

it would happen at the rate God chose, we do not know what effects the ice age might have. But it would certainly increase the water available

in your view, how does a slow lowering and raising of temperatures kill humans? I think ancient humans show an amazing ability to live all over the world, from arctic to tropical conditions.

how does noah's ark save him from the slow freezing and thawing?

 

[Tintin]

Valiant, there are so many reasons it couldn't be a local Flood, even a very widespread Flood. Noah built an Ark over many, many years (it could've taken him 70 or so years to built the boat). He took two of every unclean animal kind and seven of every clean animal kind aboard the Ark. Why would Noah bother with any of that, if it were just a widespread Flood? He could've travelled from the East to the Americas in that time and have been well out of harm's way. The Genesis account goes out of its way many, many times to show that the Flood was global. Finally, water finds its own level.