I understand that Tintin and how the New Age/Old Earth Mythologies are just remixes of ancient pagan philosophy and such. In my opinion Hellenism is more influential upon it, it's sorta noticeable when they name dang near everything after Hellenist characters. Merely denoting the old earth mythology/new ager stuff proper didn't really begin as we know it today until about 200 some years ago, particularly becoming in vogue last century.
getting dates about a young earth
- Thread starter Dan_473
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I understand that Tintin and how the New Age/Old Earth Mythologies are just remixes of ancient pagan philosophy and such. In my opinion Hellenism is more influential upon it, it's sorta noticeable when they name dang near everything after Hellenist characters. Merely denoting the old earth mythology/new ager stuff proper didn't really begin as we know it today until about 200 some years ago, particularly becoming in vogue last century.
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Tintin
Guest
I wasn't trying to "force" anything. i wrote in the post I was just looking for your reasoning...
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truthman8
Guest
Guys, remember that the attempt to date the Earth as much younger than 4.6 billion is based on an incorrect assumption that the account of the Creation is referring to six 24 hour days. Remember that the 4th day is when the 24 hour day is created. The sun, moon and stars are created on the 4th day, so the first 3 days can't be 24 hour days. What Moses was telling us was the coming of Jesus at the end of the 6,000th year. It's part of the plan of 6000, 2000, and 1000 years of Adamic history.
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Tintin
Guest
There was light and there was darkness. There was Day and there was Night. God had already set TIME in motion and had created MATTER but not given it any form by the end of day 1. By the end of day 2, He had created SPACE. By the end of day 3, the earth had been given form and was already spinning on its axis and experiencing Day and Night. So 'day' = day.
Did the New Ager's know about this then:
Jer 4:22-28
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV
Jer 4:22-28
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV
No Tin, but close I can see how you'd think that. This is rather about the desolation of Zion.
Well, at least you're beginning to recognize that as a past destruction upon the earth, even though it doesn't mention a flood.
Find me Scripture in Genesis with the flood of Noah's day doing that trembling and shaking of the earth.
It's not about the desolation of Zion either. It's about God showing them something that already happened in the past they should have understood, because of how He once before shook the earth and brought desolations, destroying man off it:
Jer 4:22
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
KJV
"sottish" means 'silly, foolish'.
Jer 4:27-28
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
The whole earth would be left desolate, but He promised to not make a full end. That's about how He left the earth after the destruction He did with Gen.1:2.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV
Because God placed this earth in a state of bondage in vanity, the earth mourns, seeking to be released from the state of imperfection it was placed in. This is what Apostle Paul was teaching about in Romans 8 regarding the "creature". For this reason, the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above would be black. What's that last part about?
What happens when today's clouds in the sky turn black? It's means a storm is coming! He was pointing to how His moving of the waters in Gen.1 by separating them to make today's seas caused holes in our sky atmosphere around the earth, and thus causes hot and cold air differentials to produce our violent storms on the earth, i.e, the weather of today's world. With the new heavens and a new earth, there will be no more seas. That water on the earth is going to go back up into the sky around the earth and plug all the holes, creating a literal greenhouse around the whole earth, no hot or cold spots, no violent storms, etc.
This prophecy deals with the future from both Jeremiah's time and also ours, not with the past. If you read the whole chapter, it is actually very clear.
Jeremiah 4
1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the Lord, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And thou shalt swear, The Lord liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Declare ye in Judah, and publish in Jerusalem; and say, Blow ye the trumpet in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this gird you with sackcloth, lament and howl: for the fierce anger of the Lord is not turned back from us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass at that day, saith the Lord, that the heart of the king shall perish, and the heart of the princes; and the priests shall be astonished, and the prophets shall wonder.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then said I, Ah, Lord God! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]At that time shall it be said to this people and to Jerusalem, A dry wind of the high places in the wilderness toward the daughter of my people, not to fan, nor to cleanse,
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Even a full wind from those places shall come unto me: now also will I give sentence against them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For a voice declareth from Dan, and publisheth affliction from mount Ephraim.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Make ye mention to the nations; behold, publish against Jerusalem, that watchers come from a far country, and give out their voice against the cities of Judah.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]As keepers of a field, are they against her round about; because she hath been rebellious against me, saith the Lord.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee; this is thy wickedness, because it is bitter, because it reacheth unto thine heart.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
I've read and... studied, the whole Book of Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and Ezekiel, and Daniel, and, etc., etc., all the Old Testament and New Testament.
That's why I know those Jer.4:23-28 verses are like a parenthetical clause, God giving them a reminder of what He did upon the earth with shaking it and trembling it once before, because those in Judea in that time were rebellious against Him, and He was getting ready to send the king of Babylon upon them!
Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV
The Jer.4:23-28 section is parenthetical. It's given as a reminder, and an example, because Jerusalem and Judea at that time God had pronounced one of many judgments upon her, and the king of Babylon was soon to come and destroy the city and take the Jews captive to Babylon. That is one of the main subjects of the Book of Jeremiah.
The timing of the Jer.4:23-28 verses had NOTHING to do with the time of destruction by the historical king of Babylon. God was giving them that Scripture by example for what was soon coming upon them, and that's it's only relation to that time. The timing of those Jer.4:23-28 verses was back at the time of Gen.1:2 when God placed His original perfect creation of Gen.1:1 into a state of vanity and bondage, like Apostle Paul showed in Romans 8, and like Peter showed in 2 Peter 3.
There is another parallel that the historical king of Babylon serves for the end though, and the destruction of this present world on the "day of the Lord". But the Heb.12 example "Yet once more" about God shaking the earth shows us this Jer.4:23-28 shaking actually happened long ago, and is being used as an example only.