getting dates about a young earth

[kodiak]

This verse exposes the YEC hypocrisy, rather well...

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until your return to the ground. For you have been taken out of it; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Gen 3.19)

So...

How many YEC's think that when Adam died, that he magically disappeared into the earth, the same way that he came from it?!

Any sane person would recognize that our return to this earth is in the SAME fashion as that in which we came from it....a SLOW molecular process.

This seems to be your argument, am I correct?
1) Adam was taken out of the earth
2) Adam returns to the earth
3) When Adam returns to the earth it is a long process
4) Therefore, Him coming out of the earth was a long process

 

[Bowman]

I see that in the first occurence of 'day' you translate it as 'Day', which I take to mean calendar day, as opposed to 'time' which you use to translate it in "time one".

No...because it is contrasted against night (darkness).

I believe we already talked about how on time four, all occurences of that word are translated as (calendar) day, except for the last occurence as "time four".

is it fair to say, then, that in your view, the story in gen 1 is correctly translated with the hebrew word for 'day' switching between 'calendar day' and 'time' more than once?

What it is showing you, and what the lexicons have always mandated, is that the Hebrew term 'yawm' is a flexible term used to denote the passage of time.

 

[Bowman]

This seems to be your argument, am I correct?
1) Adam was taken out of the earth
2) Adam returns to the earth
3) When Adam returns to the earth it is a long process
4) Therefore, Him coming out of the earth was a long process

Correct....

 

[kodiak]

Correct....

Isn't that the inverse?

 

[Dan_473]

Adam would have taken shape as a human and raised as a child....not as superman, like you wish...but, you have been watching too many reality shows which have hard and fast time limits...your time limit is a self-imposed 24hrs.

taken shape as a human, yes!
in your view, what size human?

 

[Dan_473]

A human being....of which, all are a process in the making.

Let go of your 24hr love affair...

are you saying that all humans are constantly being made? do you mean up until death?

in your view, was adam being formed out of dust up until the second he died?

 

[Dan_473]

No...because it is contrasted against night (darkness).

when God calls the light 'day', then, you don't see that as a calendar day. in your view, what is it then? an epoch? moral goodness?

in your view, when God calls the darkness 'night' what is that? a calendar night?

 

[Dan_473]

What it is showing you, and what the lexicons have always mandated, is that the Hebrew term 'yawm' is a flexible term used to denote the passage of time.

I don't believe you answered the question directly,
so I believe it is fair to say, then, that in your view, the story in gen 1 is correctly translated with the hebrew word for 'day' switching between 'calendar day' and 'time' at least once.

I've already asked the question of whether there any other passages in the scriptures where the hebrew word for 'day' is used both as 'calendar day' and 'time'.
I don't remember responses from anyone, so at this point, I don't think there are. (I'm open to new data, though.)

is there anything in the story that requires 'time' to be a certain length?

 

[Dan_473]

This seems to be your argument, am I correct?
1) Adam was taken out of the earth
2) Adam returns to the earth
3) When Adam returns to the earth it is a long process
4) Therefore, Him coming out of the earth was a long process

good observation.
I think when Adam returns to the earth it is a long process because it is being done by microbes.

when adam comes out of the earth it's done by God, who doesn't have to operate at the same speed as microbes (I assume).

 

[Dan_473]

A human being....of which, all are a process in the making.

Let go of your 24hr love affair...

in your view, then, are all dead humans also a process in the un-making? would that be decomposing?

 

[kodiak]

good observation.
I think when Adam returns to the earth it is a long process because it is being done by microbes.

when adam comes out of the earth it's done by God, who doesn't have to operate at the same speed as microbes (I assume).

Dan, you don't have to argue against fallacies

Isn't that the inverse?

Correction: That was not the inverse.
However it is the hasty generalization, which is a logical fallacy

It is taken from the earth
it returns in a long process
therefore being taken from the earth is a long process

 

[Bowman]

taken shape as a human, yes!
in your view, what size human?

Adam would have grown as any human would.

 

[Bowman]

are you saying that all humans are constantly being made? do you mean up until death?

in your view, was adam being formed out of dust up until the second he died?

Adam was made up of the same things that we are today.

We don't snap our fingers and arrive on the scene fully formed...neither did Adam.

Use your head...

 

[Bowman]

when God calls the light 'day', then, you don't see that as a calendar day. in your view, what is it then? an epoch? moral goodness?

in your view, when God calls the darkness 'night' what is that? a calendar night?

The vantage point of the narrative is from the surface of the water-covered earth. (Gen 1.2)

The earth was already rotating upon its axis, thus, there is alternating daytime and nighttime.....again from the vantage point of the surface of the earth.

 

[Bowman]

I don't believe you answered the question directly,
so I believe it is fair to say, then, that in your view, the story in gen 1 is correctly translated with the hebrew word for 'day' switching between 'calendar day' and 'time' at least once.

Nope.

You would need to show your Hebrew exegesis for that to occur....and we both know for a fact, that will never occur...right?

I've already asked the question of whether there any other passages in the scriptures where the hebrew word for 'day' is used both as 'calendar day' and 'time'.
I don't remember responses from anyone, so at this point, I don't think there are. (I'm open to new data, though.)

Yawm is used all sorts of ways in the OT.

There are only circa 3K words in Biblical Hebrew (not including proper names), thus, word flexibility was the name of the game...

is there anything in the story that requires 'time' to be a certain length?

It is as long as it needs to be in order to accomplish the creation events.

 

[Bowman]

in your view, then, are all dead humans also a process in the un-making? would that be decomposing?

You think that Adam was created in a literal 24hr day.....well, then, you must also believe that he died in a literal 24hr day after eating of the Tree.

Unless, of course, hypocrisy is creeping in...

 

[Tintin]

This seems to be your argument, am I correct?
1) Adam was taken out of the earth
2) Adam returns to the earth
3) When Adam returns to the earth it is a long process
4) Therefore, Him coming out of the earth was a long process

Haha! How moronic!

 

[Tintin]

Then Apostle Peter must have lived as recently as 200 years ago...

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
NAS

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
NIV

Peter was not talking about the time of Noah there.

The first verse is talking about God creating during Creation Week. The second verse talks about the pre-Flood world being destroyed by water.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Then Apostle Peter must have lived as recently as 200 years ago...

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
NAS

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
NIV

Peter was not talking about the time of Noah there.

Actually that is about the time of Noah and how it will be comparable to the end of time, except at that time it will be by fire and both heavens and earth will be consumed.

 

[Tintin]

No, lol the fact all the OEC doctrines were made by non-Christians fairly recently, 200 or less years ago like old earth mythology, big bang, Darwinism, etc. is what makes it New Age doctrine lol.

The old earth mythologies are much older than that, but Christians just gave an ear to them in the past 150 or so years. Evolutionary philosophy goes back to 1200BC. In its infancy, the idea was birthed from Hindu Brahmin teachings in India. The ancient Greeks took those beliefs and developed them further in 600BC or so. Evolutionary philosophy got a huge boost in the public eye with the false geological belief of uniformitarianism in the 1700s (AD). Non-Christians were actually the first to oppose Darwin's ideas of origins. They didn't see them as scientific ideas. Sadly, it was the Christians who latched onto the evolutionary ideas and ran with them.

By the way, the Big Bang idea was developed by a Christian scientist/teacher. Doesn't mean he was right. But yes, there are only two worldviews that exist - God's truth and mankind's 'truth'. I opt for God's truth.