Galatians Discussion

[Onesimus63]

All very true. At the same time Jesus set very high standards for Christians. You should not fail to point that out.

Yes he did. Do you obey all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?

 

[Onesimus63]

we have to hear it before we can discuss and understand it I think it’s important to see what’s actually there and then we are able to discuss it

Good idea.
Why is the power of sin the law? 1Corinthians15:56

 

[Onesimus63]

All very true. At the same time Jesus set very high standards for Christians. You should not fail to point that out.

Let me answer the question for you. Neither you, or two other people in this thread who stress a high level of obedience even try to obey each and every command of Christ in the Gospels. It would be good to point that out when you correctly state Jesus set very high standards. So each and every one of us fails those high standards don't we. We are all guilty if you look at it that way

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Good idea.
Why is the power of sin the law? 1Corinthians15:56

Because it’s godly purpose was to teach man what sin is and it’s consequences which is death to impute sin and hold everyone guilty before God

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

without a law defining sin man eas going to be destroyed completely or would be like this without legal consequence

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭

when man became like that the law later came to man to teach them what sin is and that they are sinners . If you have sinful people who don’t know what is sin and don’t think they are doing wrong and no consequence it will always continue

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s made for sinful people who have no Holy Ghost in them who need to be made aware that they are sinners condemned brought to the need for repentance

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The roots of sin is a law inside our heart a spiritual corrupt law that isn’t meant to be there forbidden knowledge the law defines it for us that knowledge of evil that’s not meant for man

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what that law inside of us sounds like elsewhere

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known ( understood ) sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot of reasons why the law gives strength to sin it came because of sin , to give the knowledge of sin , to sinful people , to impute thier sins and make them guilty , sin uses the law as an accusation against us , a provocation against our weaknesses to demand we be put to death. The law is holy and good but isn’t for the salvstion of man it’s meant to bring us to our knees in humility and need for a savior the messiah

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4, 6-7‬ ‭

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blik]

So when you follow after the Spirit you still commit sin?

Why not simply stop fussing about this entire question and simply do as Christ tells us to do about sin in our life? Christ says to be perfect, and gives us a way to do that. Christ says to repent.

We can choose not to sin, that is what repentance means, and try our best not to sin. We so that all fuss and worry is gone, no stress. We are forgiven any sin that slips by us, it is as if we were righteous, we have the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why not simply stop fussing about this entire question and simply do as Christ tells us to do about sin in our life? Christ says to be perfect, and gives us a way to do that. Christ says to repent.

We can choose not to sin, that is what repentance means, and try our best not to sin. We so that all fuss and worry is gone, no stress. We are forgiven any sin that slips by us, it is as if we were righteous, we have the righteousness of Christ.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
( 2Corinthians 5:10)

And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his Lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the Lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their Lord all that was done. Then his Lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[justbyfaith]

In Galatians 5:22-23, we find that if we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour. That is, in bearing the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed. We find that the law testifies that the righteousness which is of God by faith is, in fact, righteousness.

Because if we walk, not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

This is not accomplished by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts...rather, it is accomplished when we believe in Jesus and receive the Spirit through faith in Jesus (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we walk according to the Spirit (Romans 8:4) and the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23) and therefore we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

It is possible to walk in righteousness and holiness for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

For we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

Therefore, in consistently walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is consistently fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); that is, we are able to walk in freedom and victory over sinful behaviour patterns.

We can even do this consistently for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

For Jesus has condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3); and therefore if we do not walk according to the flesh we will be walking in freedom and victory over sin.

If someone doesn't have the Spirit through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:14), then they will find that sin is in fact inevitable for them; that they will sin again and there is no way of getting around that.

But for those who do have the Spirit by faith (again, Galatians 3:14), we can walk according to the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23); we can walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit and the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); that is, we will walk in freedom and victory over sin.

Therefore the doctrine of the inevitability of sin, for the believer, is a false doctrine and heresy.

 

[Onesimus63]

Because it’s godly purpose was to teach man what sin is and it’s consequences which is death to impute sin and hold everyone guilty before God

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

without a law defining sin man eas going to be destroyed completely or would be like this without legal consequence

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭

when man became like that the law later came to man to teach them what sin is and that they are sinners . If you have sinful people who don’t know what is sin and don’t think they are doing wrong and no consequence it will always continue

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s made for sinful people who have no Holy Ghost in them who need to be made aware that they are sinners condemned brought to the need for repentance

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The roots of sin is a law inside our heart a spiritual corrupt law that isn’t meant to be there forbidden knowledge the law defines it for us that knowledge of evil that’s not meant for man

“Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what that law inside of us sounds like elsewhere

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known ( understood ) sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s a lot of reasons why the law gives strength to sin it came because of sin , to give the knowledge of sin , to sinful people , to impute thier sins and make them guilty , sin uses the law as an accusation against us , a provocation against our weaknesses to demand we be put to death. The law is holy and good but isn’t for the salvstion of man it’s meant to bring us to our knees in humility and need for a savior the messiah

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4, 6-7‬ ‭

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2‬ ‭

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Let me put it another way. Why was sin able to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul the Pharisee through his knowledge of the commandment thou shalt not covet

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Let me put it another way. Why was sin able to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul the Pharisee through his knowledge of the commandment thou shalt not covet

honestly it sounds like you have a point . share the point if you know something it’s usually appreciated

 

[Onesimus63]

Why not simply stop fussing about this entire question and simply do as Christ tells us to do about sin in our life? Christ says to be perfect, and gives us a way to do that. Christ says to repent.

We can choose not to sin, that is what repentance means, and try our best not to sin. We so that all fuss and worry is gone, no stress. We are forgiven any sin that slips by us, it is as if we were righteous, we have the righteousness of Christ.

If we are perfect, or can be as you understand that to mean concerning what Christ taught, do you even try and obey all of Christ's commands? Personally I think it is best to be humbly honest about ourselves, otherwise, we may hurt other christians faith, those who know they are far from perfect

 

[Onesimus63]

In Galatians 5:22-23, we find that if we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour. That is, in bearing the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed. We find that the law testifies that the righteousness which is of God by faith is, in fact, righteousness.

Because if we walk, not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

This is not accomplished by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts...rather, it is accomplished when we believe in Jesus and receive the Spirit through faith in Jesus (Galatians 3:14). Then, as we walk according to the Spirit (Romans 8:4) and the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23) and therefore we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom (Ezekiel 36:25-27).

It is possible to walk in righteousness and holiness for an extended period of time; even for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

For we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

Therefore, in consistently walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is consistently fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); that is, we are able to walk in freedom and victory over sinful behaviour patterns.

We can even do this consistently for the rest of our lives (Luke 1:74-75).

For Jesus has condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3); and therefore if we do not walk according to the flesh we will be walking in freedom and victory over sin.

If someone doesn't have the Spirit through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:14), then they will find that sin is in fact inevitable for them; that they will sin again and there is no way of getting around that.

But for those who do have the Spirit by faith (again, Galatians 3:14), we can walk according to the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23); we can walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit and the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4); that is, we will walk in freedom and victory over sin.

Therefore the doctrine of the inevitability of sin, for the believer, is a false doctrine and heresy.

You cannot be a christian if you do not have the Spirit (Romans8:9)
And no christian without deviation follows after the Spirit. As those who are humble and honest will admit. I think if some spend too much time considering theology and the letter they could end up only with a head theology devoid of reality in any believers life.

 

[Onesimus63]

honestly it sounds like you have a point . share the point if you know something it’s usually appreciated

There is only one way you can stop a sincere believer returning to a righteousness of obeying the law once saved, and thereby placing them back under the power of sin. Tell them Jesus died for all their sins, past, present and future. Then watch the result of them having that knowledge

 

[Onesimus63]

It is true that if we live by a righteousness of faith in Christ and rely on the sanctification of the Spirit, the more we do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit will grow in us, and that fruit does not bring us into conflict with any of God's good and holy laws. However, the believer is on a journey, Paul makes clear that while we seek justification of our faith, in respect of crossing over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness it will be evident we ourselves are sinners. Sin does not all vanish the moment you get saved. And when you have crossed over, you are being led into holiness. And that process goes on for the rest of your life. You never will on this earth be the finished article. Because, in your humanity/flesh you will always slip up, and do what you want to do and not what the Spirit wants you to do.

 

[Onesimus63]

The first casualty of stressing ''you must obey the ten commandments'' or, stressing nigh on sinless perfection to remain justified before God is love

 

[Dino246]

As a teenager(above the legal age to smoke), after the church service I would sit on a wall close by the church and smoke a cigarette. The looks I got from some of the stalwarts of the church made me believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone all my other imperfections.

Years later, an internationally known evangelist prayed with me, they told me much about my life though they had never met me before. They confirmed I was baptised in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, though at that time I still smoked. I learnt a lesson that day. God does not lay the demands on you that many of His children do, in order to be in a saved state, or to bless you.

I have found over the years that it is more effective to pray for God to change another person as He chooses, than to tell the person they need to change.

 

[Onesimus63]

It appears some believe God loves His children far less than parents love theirs. If a child breaks their parents rules do the parents then throw them out of the house or threaten to? No! In love they correct their children, but they remain part of the family. Some it seems have a view of God that is not so loving, merciful and compassionate

 

[justbyfaith]

You cannot be a christian if you do not have the Spirit (Romans8:9)
And no christian without deviation follows after the Spirit. As those who are humble and honest will admit. I think if some spend too much time considering theology and the letter they could end up only with a head theology devoid of reality in any believers life.

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

Therefore it is possible to walk consistently not after the flesh but after the Spirit for an extended period of time; even for the rest of your life (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[justbyfaith]

It is true that if we live by a righteousness of faith in Christ and rely on the sanctification of the Spirit, the more we do this, the more the fruits of the Spirit will grow in us, and that fruit does not bring us into conflict with any of God's good and holy laws. However, the believer is on a journey, Paul makes clear that while we seek justification of our faith, in respect of crossing over from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness it will be evident we ourselves are sinners. Sin does not all vanish the moment you get saved. And when you have crossed over, you are being led into holiness. And that process goes on for the rest of your life. You never will on this earth be the finished article. Because, in your humanity/flesh you will always slip up, and do what you want to do and not what the Spirit wants you to do.

I don't believe that "we will always slip up"....

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT));

And therefore it is possible to walk consistently not after the flesh but after the Spirit for an extended period of time; even for the rest of your life (Luke 1:74-75).

 

[justbyfaith]

It appears some believe God loves His children far less than parents love theirs. If a child breaks their parents rules do the parents then throw them out of the house or threaten to? No! In love they correct their children, but they remain part of the family. Some it seems have a view of God that is not so loving, merciful and compassionate

Some loving parents do.

If the child is past 18 and is on drugs I find that it is justifiable for a loving parent to kick their child out of the house. I have a pastor friend who did just that with his son.

 

[justbyfaith]

Paul relentlessly states the believer can have no righteousness/justification of obeying the law. All would agree the believer is saved under a righteousness of faith in Christ. But, how do you avoid placing the believer, in effect, back under a righteousness of obeying the law once saved?

If you tell a believer, once they are saved they will not commit sin, for that is disobedience and not following after the Spirit, what, in reality will a believer hinge their hope of Heaven on/their continued righteousness on? Faith in Christ, or obeying the law? Inevitably a believer will focus on what determines their continued salvation. It cannot be two things, faith in Christ and obeying the law, there has to be a bottom line. So, if the believer believes they can only remain in a saved state/righteous before God if they do not commit sin, they will inevitably focus upon a righteousness of obeying the law. That’s the real world. It doesn’t matter how skilfully you try and explain the bible to say otherwise, the reality is, it is true.

A Christian counsellor in the states once told me, half the sex offenders in the states had at one time or another been to what he described as ‘’holiness’’ churches. It is not that hard to believe, if(if) we understand the message written down. You see, some people are completely trustworthy, sincere, and in humility do not seek to excuse, or deny their faults. If they are told a believer cannot commit sin and remain justified before God, they will fully believe it, and in reality live under a righteousness of perfectly obeying the law. I have spoken to many Christian counsellors who told me they have had so many come to them who have ended up in the mess Saul the Pharisee ended up in in Romans chapter seven. One called it, ‘’spiritual abuse’’ It is actually far worse now than when Saul suffered his torment for the law is under the new covenant within believers, and there is no hiding from it.

And yes, you can quote the letter of the bible and crush the sincere with a hypocritical message that you yourself fail to live up to, the Pharisees constantly did it in Jesus day when rigidly quoting the letter of the then scriptures. It was a heartless message they preached, devoid of the great love, mercy and compassion of God, for they neglected the love of God(Luke11:42). Nigh on perfectly obey the law or you are condemned. The same sadly, often happens today as well. A slightly different message but in effect a heartless and cruel one. ‘’You must ceaselessly, every moment of your life follow after the Holy Spirit then you will not commit sin, if you do commit sin you are in rebellion against God and can no longer remain in a justified, or saved state.’’

Same as the pharisees message in essence. They did not practiced what they preached, neither does anyone else who states every moment of their lives they follow after the Holy Spirit. For no one perfectly follows the message. Not me nor anyone else. We all rely on the great love, mercy and compassion of God to remain saved. Of course, the Pharisees loved the praise of men more than the praise of God, so they liked to make out they were far holier than they were. So they demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves. History keeps repeating itself

Realizing that you are in a saved state even if you blow it is one of the primary doctrines that will set you free from the power of sin so that you might walk in freedom and victory over sin and begin to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit so that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

It is realizing that, as concerning condemnation, you are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); and that this means that,

as concerning obedience, you are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21); that is,

the law is written on your heart and in your mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

This means that if you blow it you are forgiven even in the midst of blowing it (Romans 4:5-8);

But that because you love the Lord (Romans 5:5) you are becoming less and less inclined to blow it as time passes.

Because you have an unshakable identity in Christ...that you are righteous...even when you blow it (Romans 4:5).

So, the exhortation is, that now that you have this identity, GO AND LIVE LIKE IT (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).