From Death to Rising

[John146]

I do not believe Jesus entered the earthly holy of holies to offer His blood.

I believe the significance of the veil in the temple being torn from top to bottom is that the earthly tabernacle was ready to vanish away.

Interestingly enough, at the time that Jesus' flesh died (His "veil" "rent"), the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom.


Hebrews 9:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

...


23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true ...

Ok, when did Jesus lead the captives free? I’m not disagreeing with you, because I also have believed this way. My difficulty is the timing.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Ok, when did Jesus lead the captives free? I’m not disagreeing with you, because I also have believed this way. My difficulty is the timing.

I merely commented on your point #2.

I just don't believe Jesus went into the earthly temple. The earthly temple was passing away and He would soon ascend to the right hand of the throne of God to open the way into the Heavenly Holy of Holies.

 

[know1]

If you start off with a FALSE PREMISE you will end up with a false conclusion.

Sin is not a spirit but a transgression against God. And there are three major groups of transgressions: (1) the lust of the flesh, (2) the lust of the eyes, and (3) the pride of life. And the pride of life and all sins associated with it are sins of the spirit.

You have yet to prove me wrong or you to be correct.
Simply saying I started out with a "false premise", without using scriptural proof showing otherwise, has no authoritative weight behind it and is therefore considered to be a false premise itself.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I used scripture showing sin to be a person of some sort, as I already quoted, "to WHOM you yield yourselves to", and "HIS servant you will be".
Both words are used as personal pronouns.
Not things, but something one would say of a person or an intelligent being.
The sin you are servant to IS the "WHOM" and "HIS", in which the above scripture is referring to.
If we are righteous because of God's spirit in us, then we sin and/or are sinners because of the same, only that one is not of God.
We are righteous because of God's SEED/OFFSPRING in us, and the same is true for those who sin, are sinners, and the wicked and deceitful.
All who sin, are servants to the whom and his sin he committed.
Again, as the seed or tree is in us, so are we.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Both the seed/offspring and the tree are one in the same, only one is just starting and the other is mature... that being, they are both a spirit.
Whether it be of and from God or the devil, they are spirits.
Everything might start out as a seed but it eventually grows to become a tree that WILL eventually produce fruit.
This is what God cleanses us of, or removes from us. Then we are forgiven.
Through faith in and by the blood of Jesus, when we repent and confess our sins to Him, God, in His mercy, and by His grace, removes or eradicates that which is offensive to Him, from us.
We are NOT automatically washed and/or cleansed by the blood of Jesus, when we sin.
We MUST repent and confess said sin, and by faith in both God and His word/promise, we are cleanse by the blood of Jesus, which is the Holy Spirit and Word of God.
It is not just the forgiveness of sins that we get from God.
Our system must be cleansed of that which the devil planted in us or we will do the same bad deeds repeatedly.
And with that comes the consequences, such as sicknesses and diseases.
The sin itself is the fruit of a spirit, even as the righteous things we do is the fruit of a seed/offspring/spirit of God.
The sin nature in us is a seed/offspring/spirit of and from the devil.
And even as the word of God can multiply itself, so can that of the devil.
Again, the word of God is called a seed, and what is a seed, but an offspring of the parent, which in this case is represented as or by a tree.
And each tree, whether it be physical or spiritual, produces after its own kind.
For it is written, a good tree CANNOT produce evil, bad, or corrupt fruit, and neither can a evil, bad, or corrupt tree produce good or righteous fruit.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things?

Be interesting to hear your answer to the question in Matthew 12:34 as to whom you believe is the spiritual father of the those referred unto as vipers in that verse?

 

[know1]

Be interesting to hear your answer to the question in Matthew 12:34 as to whom you believe is the spiritual father of the those referred unto as vipers in that verse?

Luk 11:14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
Luk 11:15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
Luk 11:16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
Luk 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Luk 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
Luk 13:12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
Luk 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

To answer your question, in the old testament, it is written that Satan "spread himself out", or "multiplied himself".

Eze 28:14 Thou H859 art the anointed H4473 cherub H3742 that covereth; H5526

One meaning for anointed is expansion.
Or as defined in the dictionary, "The act of increasing (something) in size, volume, quantity or scope"
And some of the definitions for the word "covereth" is, to entwine as a screen; by implication to fence in, cover over, (figuratively), hedge in, join together,
When Jesus asked "How can Satan cast out Satan?", He was referring to demonic spirits that were from and of Satan. Offspring, if you will, of the devil.
The devil increases himself and is in them and they in him, even as the spirit of God increased Himself from Moses to the seventy elders.

Num 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of H4480 the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

The word "of", literally means, "a part of".
In other words, "The Lord... took a part of the spirit that was upon him (Moses), and gave it to the seventy elders."
Which means, the spirit that was on Moses had offspring, and therefore multiplied itself.
And as that which is done to us is done to Christ, so it is with the children of the devil.

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

To answer your question, in the old testament, it is written that Satan "spread himself out", or "multiplied himself".

When Jesus asked "How can Satan cast out Satan?", He was referring to demonic spirits that were from and of Satan. Offspring, if you will, of the devil. The devil increases himself and is in them and they in him, even as the spirit of God increased Himself from Moses to the seventy elders.

I was just interested in who you considered the heavenly father of those whom Jesus called 'vipers'.

The reason I asked is due to the vipers, being evil, are asked how they can speak good things since being evil, the vipers know how to give good gifts to their children? Luke 11:13

That is peculiar since it is written in James 1:17, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

 

[know1]

I was just interested in who you considered the heavenly father of those whom Jesus called 'vipers'.

The reason I asked is due to the vipers, being evil, are asked how they can speak good things since being evil, the vipers know how to give good gifts to their children? Luke 11:13

That is peculiar since it is written in James 1:17, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

Oh, sorry about that.
I misunderstood your statement.
Interesting point you brought up.
I would start by saying, there are none righteous, no, not one, and that there are both sheep and goats in God's eyes.
The sheep, though they be God's sheep, were still evil in His eyes.
Before Jesus suffered, died, and rose from the dead, not one person was righteous, and therefore were seen by God as evil.
The goats on the other hand, I would put them in the class of vipers.
Those who portray themselves to be righteous sheep, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
They are vipers.
They are the ones who call Jesus lord but are workers of iniquity, and deceiving liars.
I would put many of the loftier people in the same category, as well as the smart, intellectuals who look down on those not so gifted, while taking pleasure in their own wit and superior intellect.
Like many of the Pharisees, Sadducees, lawyers, elders, and even the priests, in Jesus' time on earth.
They were goats and not sheep.
God was NOT their father.

Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[jb]

I did a blog on this subject and those interested can find it Here

 

[ComeLordJesus]

The way I interpret the Bible is Jesus went to the cross, took the sins of the world upon Him, shed His blood to wash away those sins, and died, laid down those sins, and went to conquer death, and hell or hades, which He has the keys to death and hell for he conquered both, and to deliver the saints from death, and hell.

Rose from the grave in which He had not ascended to heaven yet to put the blood on the mercy seat which is why He told Mary not to touch Him yet for He had not ascended to the Father, and told Mary to go tell the disciples He had risen.

Then ascended to the Father and put the blood on the mercy seat making the New Testament come in to affect.

Then came back and showed Himself to the disciples which Thomas said he will not believe the Lord is risen until he sees the prints in his hands, and put his finger in the print of the nail, and thrust his hand in to His side, which then Jesus allowed Thomas to touch Him for He already put the blood on the mercy seat, and Thomas touched him and knew He had risen and said my Lord, and my God.

Concerning the veil being torn in two it stated that it happened while Jesus was on the cross in the physical temple.

But it seems like it must apply spiritually but that probably is covered when Jesus resurrected to heaven which Jesus said no man had entered heaven before and He is the first one, and then applied the blood to the mercy seat, so entering the Holy Of Holies is entering in to heaven where the mercy seat it at.

Then Jesus showed Himself for 40 days after that to the disciples, and then on the Mount of Olives while speaking to them He ascended to heaven and the disciples were told that He would descend the same way as He ascended which Jesus will fight the world standing on the Mount of Olives and defeat them at the battle of Armageddon for all nations shall be gathered together against Jerusalem so they are all in one area.

Then at the day of Pentecost the Spirit was made available to the people and to be added to the Church.

Which the Old Testament saints arose to be with the Lord for there is no reason for their soul to stay on earth when Jesus arose and He conquered death and hell so they can access to heaven.

And all saints who die shall be with the Lord for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which the Bible says there are souls under the altar that ask Jesus when He will avenge them, and He said when all the saints are with Him which the resurrection will be all the saints with Him.

Which they probably have not received their glorified body yet, which may be why the Bible says their souls are under the altar, and at the resurrection when it says the dead shall rise first may mean that the saints that are with Jesus will receive their glorified body at that time, and then those which are alive shall be caught up to meet them where they receive their glorified body.

For the saints that have died in the Lord are with the Lord, so their soul cannot be in the grave so the dead shall rise first must mean they receive a glorified body first.

Jesus is now the Mercy Seat.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus is now the Mercy Seat.

Yes ...

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation [Greek hilastērion] through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

2435 hilastḗrion (a substantival adjective, derived from 2433 /hiláskomai, "to propitiate") – the place of propitiation; the lid of the golden ark (the mercy-seat) where the blood of a vicarious lamb appeased God's wrath on sin.