Friday crucifixion?

[PaulThomson]

I guess I must have been off sick on the day that reading comprehension was covered in class, because I can't understand what your saying.

Let me try a diagram.

|Wednesday midnight |Thursday evening & night |Friday evening & night |Saturday evening & night
| Thursday 00:00:01 | Friday 00:00:01 +t+ | Saturday 00:00:01 | Sunday midnight 00:00:01

|+++++++++_____________+++++++++|*++++++++_________|_________+++++++++|+++++++++_________|_________++++++++|+++++++++___*______|_________

*Jesus arrested and taken * Jesus ascends to the Temple Mount to the Father
.................................................................... |_night 1_|_____day 1_______|______night 2_______|_____day 2______|_____night 3________|day 3|

 

[PaulThomson]

I guess I must have been off sick on the day that reading comprehension was covered in class, because I can't understand what your saying.

I had a problem with formatting within the 5 min edit period.

Let me try a diagram.

|Wednesday midnight ...|Thursday evening & night .....................|Friday evening & night........................... |Saturday evening & night
is
|Thursday 00:00:01............................ | Friday 00:00:01.. +t+ ...................................| Saturday 00:00:01 ....................................| Sunday midnight 00:00:01

|+++++++++_____________+++++++++|*++++++++_________|_________+++++++++|+++++++++_________|_________++++++++|+++++++++___*______|_________

*Jesus arrested and taken * Jesus ascends to the Temple Mount to the Father
.................................................................... |_night 1_|_____day 1_______|______night 2_______|_____day 2______|_____night 3________|day 3|

 

[DavidLamb]

In your post #64 you wrote, "How so? Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night - three nights."

And if He was in the tomb on Sunday night, which I think you just implied that He was, then a 4th night would have been involved.

Sorry if you thought that. I have repeatedly said that we are told that the tomb was empty early on the morning of the first day of the week, so Jesus cannot still have been there on Sunday night.

 

[hornetguy]

Well let's see:
Entombed Thursday afternoon - calendar day1, daytime 1.
In tomb Friday - calendar day 2, night time 1, daytime 2.
In tomb Saturday - calendar day 3, night time 2, daytime 3.
In tomb Sunday- calendar day 4, night time 3.
So, 4 calendar days are involved in the grave and not just 3.

Jesus was not in the tomb on Sunday.
When did the Jewish day begin? When did the Jewish night begin?

 

[Adstar]

The Catholic Church as well as a number of protestant churches believe that the crucifixion took place on a Friday. And to support that belief, Luke 23:54 is often used as a proof text. That may pose a problem, though, since scripture says that the stay in the heart of the earth would be for three days and three nights. But assuming a Sunday resurrection, a third night would have been missing within that period of time. Any thoughts on how that might be reconciled?

Friday does not work.. It never worked.. It was Wednesday.. Jesus was executed on Wednesday and placed into the ground just before sundown which was the start of the High Sabbath called the first day of unleavened bread.. There where two sabbaths in the week Jesus died.. One on Thursday and then the normal weekly one on Saturday..

 

[posthuman]

Let me try a diagram.

|Wednesday midnight |Thursday evening & night |Friday evening & night |Saturday evening & night
| Thursday 00:00:01 | Friday 00:00:01 +t+ | Saturday 00:00:01 | Sunday midnight 00:00:01

|+++++++++_____________+++++++++|*++++++++_________|_________+++++++++|+++++++++_________|_________++++++++|+++++++++___*______|_________

*Jesus arrested and taken * Jesus ascends to the Temple Mount to the Father
.................................................................... |_night 1_|_____day 1_______|______night 2_______|_____day 2______|_____night 3________|day 3|

that was a lot of careful typing!

but there are plenty of diagrams out there if anyone cares to search

 

[posthuman]

In your post #64 you wrote, "How so? Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night - three nights."

And if He was in the tomb on Sunday night, which I think you just implied that He was, then a 4th night would have been involved.

does God consider 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds = 1 day?


or are you relying on what you heard was a human tradition of a people you aren't even a part of, to justify your position?

 

[posthuman]

if He was in the tomb on Sunday night,

maybe ask, how do 76 hours ((approximate)) from the point Joseph and Nicodemus put His body in the tomb fit into a week, when we know He rose before the women came at first light looking for Him on a Sunday?

and then ask why 24 hours is only an approximate measure of a day instead of exact

 

[posthuman]

Sorry if you thought that. I have repeatedly said that we are told that the tomb was empty early on the morning of the first day of the week, so Jesus cannot still have been there on Sunday night.

remember, Jewish Sunday night is what we heathens call sundown Saturday to sunrise Sunday - - - He was obviously risen before what the Jews count as the beginning of Monday, and we call Sunday night.

 

[PaulThomson]

that was a lot of careful typing!

but there are plenty of diagrams out there if anyone cares to search


View attachment 278024

The above diagram would have us accept that Jesus rose from the dead on Saturday afternoon but the stone remained in place until an angel opened it on Saturday evening, terrifying the guards into unconsciousness, who waited until Sunday morning to report the open bodyless tomb on Sunday morning ? However, scripture says there was an earthquake as the women were coming to the tomb very early on Sunday morning (i.e. after the dawn chorus began) and this was when the tomb was opened and the angel appeared and the guards fainted. I don't see any scriptural evidence that Jesus rose on the sabbath day/Saturday.

 

[posthuman]

The above diagram would have us accept that Jesus rose from the dead on Saturday afternoon but the stone remained in place until an angel opened it on Saturday evening, terrifying the guards into unconsciousness, who waited until Sunday morning to report the open bodyless tomb on Sunday morning ? However, scripture says there was an earthquake as the women were coming to the tomb very early on Sunday morning (i.e. after the dawn chorus began) and this was when the tomb was opened and the angel appeared and the guards fainted. I don't see any scriptural evidence that Jesus rose on the sabbath day/Saturday.

Hebrew Sunday begins at sunset on what we pagans call Saturday

He most likely rose at midnight or 3am on what we call Saturday, which would be the 8th day, Sunday, Firstfruits, the day after the weekly sabbath.

definitely no way to reconcile the sda position of a sabbath resurrection with scripture, i agree - but i think you're getting confused over the Biblical vs worldly method of counting days.

i suggest strongly for this topic we all settle ourselves on speaking strictly in terms of a day beginning and ending from sunset to sunset, not midnight.

 

[posthuman]

He most likely rose at midnight or 3am

i strongly lean to the ~3am, 8th day morning position.

we know He released His Spirit from His body at 3pm, and i am of the opinion that God is very, very good at math and very exacting with His language and timing.

i believe He was dead for exactly 3 nights/days, but that we as humans cannot possibly measure that time with precision; only He can

that said, however inexact we necessarily are, a Friday crucifixion is laughably implausible. to me it is a transparent Roman-bishopric lie meant to accommodate pagan schedules of holidays, and has no bearing whatsoever on the actual math/truth

 

[rstrats]

[QUOTE="posthuman, post: 5538741, member: 170505
i suggest strongly for this topic we all settle ourselves on speaking strictly in terms of a day beginning and ending from sunset to sunset, not midnight.[/QUOTE]

And I am strongly behind you on that. I don't know why folks want to discuss events of 2000 years ago using - as you call it - a worldly method of counting days.

 

[cv5]

i believe He was dead for exactly 3 nights/days, but that we as humans cannot possibly measure that time with precision; only He can

Agree......exactly 3 full continuous nights/days.

 

[John146]

a worldly method of counting days.

How days are measured is outlined in scripture. A Jewish day is daylight to dark (12 hours, 6am-6pm). Night is from dark to daylight (6pm-6am). An entire day, as context, is from dark to the end of daylight (6pm-6pm).

 

[rstrats]

How days are measured is outlined in scripture. A Jewish day is daylight to dark (12 hours, 6am-6pm). Night is from dark to daylight (6pm-6am). An entire day, as context, is from dark to the end of daylight (6pm-6pm).

Yes, that is what posthuman and I just said.

BTW, what was your reason for quoting "a worldly method of counting days"?

 

[John146]

Yes, that is what posthuman and I just said.

BTW, what was your reason for quoting "a worldly method of counting days"?

I guess I should have asked what was meant by "worldly way of county days"?

 

[Adstar]

Well today the standard ""worldly way"" of counting a full day is from 12:00 Midnight to 12:00 Midnight.

I believe back in the days of Jesus's ministry the day as interpreted by the Romans was the standard ""worldly way"" of counting a full day from 6:00am Sunrise to 6:00am Sunrise.. I suspect many of the Jews of those days being within the Roman empire had adopted the Roman day as the standard.. But in the New testament accounts it is clear that the Gospel Anthers where still using the Biblical standard..

The Biblical standard has always been from 6:00pm Sunset to 6:00pm Sunset..

 

[PaulThomson]

i suggest strongly for this topic we all settle ourselves on speaking strictly in terms of a day beginning and ending from sunset to sunset, not midnight.

..............| Wednesday 00:00:00...........| Thursday 00:00:00..............| Friday 00:00:00....................| Saturday 00:00:00.................| Sunday 00:00:00
| 4th Jewish day---------------| 5th Jewish day --------------| 6th Jewish day----------------| 7th Jewish day---------------| 1st Jewish day....................
evening..........morning...........evening..........morning..........evening..........morning..........evening..........morning..........evening...........morning......

******************************************************************|*********|***************|***********************************************************|****|*******
................................................................................................| Last Supper
...............................................................................................................| Jesus arrested 6th day midnight and taken back to Jerusalem
.....................................................................................................................................| .Jesus crucified 6th day at approx. 11:00 am, the 6th Hour
.....................................................................................................................................|...........|*esus buried and tomb closed
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................| Jesus resurrected after dawn chorus has roused the women from sleep and as they are on their way to the tomb.
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................| Jesus ascends to the Father to present Himself as the first-fruits from the dead as per John 20:17 and Zec, 3
...............................................................................................................|######|@@@@@|############|@@@@@@|##########|@|
...................................................................................................................................| Nite 1 | Day 1..........| Night 2.............|Day 2...............| Night 3.......| Day 3

"In the heart of the Land" (en kardiai tEs gEs) means IMHO on the Temple Mount, which was the heart of Israel. Jesus was three days and three nights in the heart of the land.
He was also raised on the third day, within three days, and after three days from His handing over, and His death, and His burial as per His many predictions to His disciples.

 

[PaulThomson]

Now let's put a Thursday crucifixion into the time line -

Unfortunately, cutting and pasting looses all the colours from fonts, so this post has lost all its colours and I don't want to redo them.

..............| Wednesday 00:00:00.........| Thursday 00:00:00....................| Friday 00:00:00..................| Saturday 00:00:00.................| Sunday 00:00:00
| 4th Jewish day------------.---| 5th Jewish day --------------| 6th Jewish day----------------| 7th Jewish day---------------| 1st Jewish day....................
evening..........morning...........evening..........morning..........evening..........morning..........evening..........morning..........evening...........morning......

*********************************|********|*****************|******|*********|***************|***********************************************************|****|*******
................................................| Last Supper
.............................................................| Jesus arrested 5th day midnight and taken back to Jerusalem.
.....................................................................................| .Jesus crucified 5th day at approx. 11:00 am, the 6th hour.
............................................................................................| Jesus tomb closed on the 5th day just before evening.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................| Jesus resurrected after dawn chorus has roused the women from sleep and as they are on their way to the tomb while the first day is dawning.
...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................| Jesus ascends to the Father to present Himself as the first-fruits from the dead as per John 20:17 and Zec, 3
............................................................................................|*|############|@@@@@@|###########|@@@@@@@|###########|@|
....................................................................................................Day 1| Night 1............|Day 2...............| Night 2..........| Day 3................| Night 3...........|. Day 4
If a Thursday crucifixion......|..............| .....1st day....+.....|*|..................2nd day.................|..................3rd day....................|..Jesus. rose on the 4th day, and within 4 days

There are four days and 3 nights by Jewish reckoning, unless one imagines a resurrection during dayilght on the 7th day, the Saturday, and God opening the tomb twelve hours or more later. on the 1st day of the week, the Sunday. What was Jesus doing overnight between His resurrection and His presentation to the Father to receive back His glory as per Zec 3 and John 20:17?

Another problem is all the prophecies by Jesus of Him rising on the third day, or within three days after He is handed over to the rulers, or after He is killed or after He is buried.