Free will and God's will

[Depleted]

Thanks for the reply, and believe me I do get what you are saying here. I myself have walked away or tried to walk away from God, but he never left me alone, and he did guide me back just like the prodigal son.

From the beginning though, I had to make the choice to accept him or not…To be honest, when he first started drawing me…I chose not to accept him, but thank God he had mercy on me and continued to give me a chance to repent, accept His Son, and be saved. But that was something that I had to choose to do…He didn’t make me do it, but he had mercy on me and gave me the chance.

To me it's like a relationship. No one makes us marry them. Even if we think the person is a jerk to start with, we marry because we love them enough to want to spend forever with them.

 

[1ofthem]

To me it's like a relationship. No one makes us marry them. Even if we think the person is a jerk to start with, we marry because we love them enough to want to spend forever with them.

I do agree with this. It is out of love.

 

[Iconoclast]

Nehemiah6

Only in the minds of those who prefer delusion to reality.

Now N6...that does not seem like a nice comment directed towards me does it?

you say delusion??? Maybe you can show free will in any verse in the bible? In reality ...you cannot...the 17 occurencesof this term have nothing to do with's mans will...but rather with monetary offerings not commanded by law...
So if it is reality you want....show one verse that teaches it, You cannot because it does not exist.except in the minds of carnal philosophers who are in rebellion to God's worldview.

Au contraire it is the essential function of the will.

That is what YOU say and think, but you cannot show anywhere that scripture speaks of it.....these fine verses you offer speak of men being responsible before God...nothing concerning the will of man being "free"...sorry

 

[Iconoclast]

Sometimes I wish that I had no freewill and God made all my choices for me. Clearly he does not, though, or I would never make any mistakes...

The scripture instructs us to submit our will unto the Lord. So it is our choice to submit to God or not.

Like in the case of Jonah...He won't make us do his will, but he can make us wish we had...Still though, it is our own choice to submit and do his will or not.

This does not address the will///everyone makes choices

 

[Iconoclast]

Actually, you're dealing with a believer in the word of God, who defines God based upon what saith the Scriptures rather than putting God into man made definitions.

God declared He was going to destroy Nineveh in forty days.
Nineveh cried out to God in their wickedness.
God did not destroy Nineveh.

God changed His mind because of the change in Nineveh.

*The story of Nineveh destroys an Calvinistic beliefs. Calvinists change the wording and privately interpret the book of Jonah.

Wow...this off topic post denies the attributes of the biblical and True God.

 

[Depleted]

Yeah whatever dude, He said we do not mention God, And I proved we did.

He was proven to be wrong. Because we mentioned God in all out posts numerous times as I proved,.

I already stated I refuse to discuss calvanism with you people. Typically, You responded to me with blind eyes, you thought. I was talking about calvanism, even though I told someone earlier I was not going to discuss that. Which just proves my point even more.

There is no use discussing calvanism with certain people. All it does is break hate, attacks, unchristlike behavior, and division. Not worth it. (As I said, it is not all people. It is just a select few)

But when someone tries to attack others by stating things which are not true. I will call them out. I do not care who you are. And if people do not stand up and call a sin out that is sin, thats on them. .

One of two things will happen here.
1. You call yourself out for stating something that's not true.
2. You prove you are a liar.

Which one is it?

Here's the thing you said that was NOT true.

Can someone explain to me what it is about people who follow fatalism that make them so they feel they have to attack anyone who disagrees with them?

Anyone here a fatalist? He was (passive-aggressively, because he thinks he is holier-than-thou by not directly talking to the person he's angry with) calling me that. I'm not a fatalist. But, hey, if anyone is, maybe he was talking about you.

 

[Depleted]

I do agree with this. It is out of love.

Both ways.

 

[Magenta]

Anyone here a fatalist?

Calvinists are by definition. They believe they believe because they were chosen to believe, and had no choice in the matter. It does not get any more fatalistic than that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Calvinists are by definition. They believe they believe because they were chosen to believe, and had no choice in the matter. It does not get any more fatalistic than that.

They will not admit it.

 

[preacher4truth]

Wow...this off topic post denies the attributes of the biblical and True God.

He's Open Theist, KJVO, denies election, predestination and other truths. He skips Ephesians 1:4 claiming he was not chosen but chose himself, then claims he is represented in Ephesians 2:3, jumping context and truth all the while attempting to land feet first later on in the kingdom his own way.

Yet those in Ephesians 2 are only those in chapter 1 as there is no other Gospel or way into the Kingdom. Nevertheless according to him he found another pathway and avoided election altogether.

I think it's that he's just thoroughly confused and generally unbiblical.

Many according to Jesus have tried to climb into the fold another way as noted in John 10.

This all reminds me of the many characters John Bunyan wrote of who got on the path "their own way." Later on down the path things didn't turn out so well, and the things these told others along the way didn't ring true in their ears.

Something was amiss. Christian and others who got into the fold the right way always detected that something was wrong with these among them on the path. They were correct.

John Bunyan nailed it and we witness these same things today.

 

[TruthTalk]

Once the Lord comes into your life, can you even not-choose him?

I've tried to walk away, and yet, he has me, so I can't. It just makes no sense to walk away. So his choice saved me, and I've got no other choice but to love and follow him.

I've tried to walk away a couple of times, but never again. The trying to leave is to painful and leaves you with saying, "what have I done." and the climbing back into His Grace has many problems as well. Praise God He has been faithful to me when I have not. The lesson learned to me is from an unknown quote; 'Running away from God is like running into darkness.' In times of trials and hardships, always run to God never away from Him. Thank you for reminding me........

Looking back it must have been all of God's will to bring me back and I just said okay, and yes sir and thank you sir!

"But I will sacrifice to You With the voice of thanksgiving. That which I have vowed I will pay.
Salvation is from the LORD." But I will sacrifice to You With the voice of thanksgiving.
That which I have vowed I will pay. Jonah2:9

"Salvation is from the LORD."​

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[John146]

Wow...this off topic post denies the attributes of the biblical and True God.

Nineveh's free will to believe God's word was on display. God declared to destroy them. Nineveh believed in their upcoming destruction and pleaded to God to spare them. God changed His mind and spared them. Calvinists don't like to hear that God changed His mind. Right on topic.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists are by definition. They believe they believe because they were chosen to believe, and had no choice in the matter. It does not get any more fatalistic than that.

This shows a total lack of understanding. Muslims are fatalists, Christians are not.
The difference is the biblical God controls all things that come to pass;
[FONT=&quot]9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.[/FONT]

 

[Iconoclast]

Nineveh's free will to believe God's word was on display. God declared to destroy them. Nineveh believed in their upcoming destruction and pleaded to God to spare them. God changed His mind and spared them. Calvinists don't like to hear that God changed His mind. Right on topic.

The biblical God is perfect and never changes His mind.Calvinists know that God has no need to change his mind,ever.
Plan A always works....no plan B necessary

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The biblical God is perfect and never changes His mind.Calvinists know that God has no need to change his mind,ever.
Plan A always works....no plan B necessary

So God changed his mind, because a city of their free will repented. And this is all you have to say?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This shows a total lack of understanding. Muslims are fatalists, Christians are not.
The difference is the biblical God controls all things that come to pass;
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Muslims are not fatalist. They can work their ways to heaven.

A fatalist says the lost will be condemned to hell, because God prevented them from the ability to chose to recieve his gift.

A Muslim says that if you commit suicide in the name of God, you not only get to heaven but get a bunch of women.

A fatalist said God chose a baby to hell before he was born.

 

[Iconoclast]

He's Open Theist, KJVO, denies election, predestination and other truths. He skips Ephesians 1:4 claiming he was not chosen but chose himself, then claims he is represented in Ephesians 2:3, jumping context and truth all the while attempting to land feet first later on in the kingdom his own way.

Yet those in Ephesians 2 are only those in chapter 1 as there is no other Gospel or way into the Kingdom. Nevertheless according to him he found another pathway and avoided election altogether.

I think it's that he's just thoroughly confused and generally unbiblical.

Many according to Jesus have tried to climb into the fold another way as noted in John 10.

This all reminds me of the many characters John Bunyan wrote of who got on the path "their own way." Later on down the path things didn't turn out so well, and the things these told others along the way didn't ring true in their ears.

Something was amiss. Christian and others who got into the fold the right way always detected that something was wrong with these among them on the path. They were correct.

John Bunyan nailed it and we witness these same things today.

Wow....if half the things listed here are so,,,this person is in trouble. I have seen people who try and over think the clear revelation of God and go to an open theism heresy so they can supply truth that they think God has not revealed.

If it is so, they will expose themselves by not coming to grips with the perfection of God and all His Holy attributes.
Open theism is clearly a tower of babel of theological rebellion.
Thanks for the warning on this...I will keep an eye out and try and help this person....

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

again, I am not sure what your talking about.

I asked if I can chose at a particular instant to get angry or not.

I am not trying to argue about calvanism, (I have learned it is a fruitless argument) I just asked a simple question.

Okay so...don't laugh okay? But I was not aware that I was discussing Calvinist...
I did finally, after like 11 years, go and look up what tulip meant. I didn't see a problem with the points. I also read a few paragraphs of a man who I think was actually NAMED Calvin, a thing he wrote on the book of Job, and I liked the little I read and I have it bookmarked to read it later. But I had no idea I was talking about him! Okay, you can laugh a little bit - it is kind of funny I guess. To be a Christian for over 11 years and not know barely anything about doctrines or 'isms.

I didn't know that to think I didn't choose Him but that He chose me and drew me and healed my blindness was to fall under the category of Calvinistic. I really didn't. And I didn't know that to think there was nothing of worth in myself was Calvinistic either.
I'm learning a lot here now though. I always thought of myself as being closest to a quaker after reading Thomas Kellys book! Then I read Teresa and John of the Cross and thought I must be close to a catholic but for a few ideas I found odd! At some point I just gave up trying to determine what I was and just enjoyed the men I found, when God gave them to me as helpmeets.

I see what you're saying though. It wouldn't get us anywhere to discuss there maybe being any good thing in me. You're right, I would not change my mind regarding that. And with the other point of my post - that He chose me, drew me and healed my blindness - you're right, discussing it wouldn't change my mind or cause me to begin to think that I chose Him.

Trying to remember if there was anything else left that we COULD discuss...oh yes, you asked me if I could choose to not get angry or to get angry. To me this is to ask: can I choose to either murder or not murder? If I could just choose to never get angry, would there ever be any conceivable reason to choose TO get angry...? If it's simply a matter of choice, why would I EVER choose to murder...?!

 

[Iconoclast]

eternally-gratefull

Muslims are not fatalist.

Hello EG
They certainly are....

Definition of fatalism. : a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them; also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine. fatalism that regards social problems as simply inevitable.

In fatalistic belief systems the future is not controlled by a living and personal God...that is the God of the bible who is perfect.

They can work their ways to heaven.

this does not come into play...

A fatalist says the lost will be condemned to hell, because God prevented them from the ability to chose to recieve his gift.

Fatalism does not believe in the Biblical God who controls every single molecule

A Muslim says that if you commit suicide in the name of God, you not only get to heaven but get a bunch of women.

This has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

A fatalist said God chose a baby to hell before he was born.

You are just pulling ideas out of the blue,and these are confused thoughts....you need to do some study before trying to continue...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay so...don't laugh okay? But I was not aware that I was discussing Calvinist...
I did finally, after like 11 years, go and look up what tulip meant. I didn't see a problem with the points. I also read a few paragraphs of a man who I think was actually NAMED Calvin, a thing he wrote on the book of Job, and I liked the little I read and I have it bookmarked to read it later. But I had no idea I was talking about him! Okay, you can laugh a little bit - it is kind of funny I guess. To be a Christian for over 11 years and not know barely anything about doctrines or 'isms.

I didn't know that to think I didn't choose Him but that He chose me and drew me and healed my blindness was to fall under the category of Calvinistic. I really didn't. And I didn't know that to think there was nothing of worth in myself was Calvinistic either.
I'm learning a lot here now though. I always thought of myself as being closest to a quaker after reading Thomas Kellys book! Then I read Teresa and John of the Cross and thought I must be close to a catholic but for a few ideas I found odd! At some point I just gave up trying to determine what I was and just enjoyed the men I found, when God gave them to me as helpmeets.

I see what you're saying though. It wouldn't get us anywhere to discuss there maybe being any good thing in me. You're right, I would not change my mind regarding that. And with the other point of my post - that He chose me, drew me and healed my blindness - you're right, discussing it wouldn't change my mind or cause me to begin to think that I chose Him.

Trying to remember if there was anything else left that we COULD discuss...oh yes, you asked me if I could choose to not get angry or to get angry. To me this is to ask: can I choose to either murder or not murder? If I could just choose to never get angry, would there ever be any conceivable reason to choose TO get angry...? If it's simply a matter of choice, why would I EVER choose to murder...?!

Not sure why you can not answer an easy question, I said I had no desire to discuss calvanism in our discussion, yet you continually want to discuss calvanism.

I asked if you could chose to follow the spirit. Or follow the flesh. (Yes it was concerning anger, but any sin would do)

Can you chose to murder or not murder? Of course you can, David did, Moses did. Many have chosen not to. A non believer can chose to murder or not murder. How many non believers have gotten so angry they had to hold back, and let the law take care of someone who raped their child. Or other stuff.

I would not claim to think that under all circumstances I know exactly how I would react. That would be quite prideful on my part i would think