Free Will - A More Exhaustive Look
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Day 258 of the timeline, chronological reading plan affords us, readers of the Bible, an opportunity to understand the core of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As we continue to look at how the Power and Control of the Lord imposes itself upon this concept of “free will,” consider Jeremiah 32:39-40. It reads as follows:
NLT - “And I will give them one heart and one purpose: to worship me forever, for their own good and for the good of all their descendants. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good for them. I will put a desire in their hearts to worship me, and they will never leave me.”
The first highlight above; does the text not sound like the promise given to Abraham? It should, for it is the same and Holy Promise:
Genesis 17:2, 7-8 NLT - 2 “I will make a covenant with you, by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants.”... 7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 And I will give the entire land of Canaan, where you now live as a foreigner, to you and your descendants. It will be their possession forever, and I will be their God.”
But back to Jeremiah: Even more incredibly, the NLT translates the ancient text as “I will put a desire in their hearts . . .” – One mustn’t be required to be a Biblical Scholar to understand this text and what it implies. According to the story, a small child will acknowledge that Israel must be given the ability to desire a lifetime of worshipping the Lord because that ability was not with or within them. Think about it: Why would the Lord put “desire” within a person’s heart if that “desire” was pre-existent and thriving? And so what is this Holy “desire”? This “desire” is a thought process; it is the way in which we perceive something that we claim we Truly Love. This Holy desire is so strong that a person to whom it has been granted, they are compelled to and successfully [will] change. Being given this new Heart is much like being freed from the trap of limited thinking and perceptibility.
Question: If a person possesses “free will” and has the personal power to choose to obey or not obey, why must that same person be given a new heart (if the purpose of the New Heart is to cause an effect)? The Jeremiah passages above clearly state the purpose of being given a new heart, which is . . . SO THAT a person will worship God forever, and this is not only for “their good,” but also for the “good of all their descendants.” But more, the purpose is Rebirth. The purpose is Regeneration. The purpose is Purification. The purpose is to replace the “old man” with the “New Man” and “New Woman.” The purpose is to be set free of the captivity of the Devil, which compels us to do his, Satan’s evil and pleasurable will. The purpose is to cause us to change from being self-centered to possessing an outward focus on others. The purpose is to cause us to become Living Sacrifices for the good of others.
Did you catch that? “For their good.” The text is clear: the Lord will replace the old, stony heart with a New, Regenerated Heart, for without this Spiritual process, no one can be saved; hence, the Work of Christ is for the Eternal good of His Elect. Again, the text is clear: this act of being given a New Heart does not originate from the choice or option of any man, woman, or child, but it is entirely the Work of our Triune God. And what is this act that releases humanity from the effects of the Sinful Nature? Colossians 2:11, 13 tells us in plain, easy-to-understand words:
NLT - 11 “When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature.” ... 13 “You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.”
2nd question: Why must a person be given a new heart SO THAT they can obey and worship without hypocrisy? Doesn’t the powerful sense of personal “free will” grant every person the ability and option to choose to obey? In contrast to that theory, the context of the story of the Bible gives us the answer: We need the Saving Power of Christ. We must be Spiritually Drawn; otherwise, none would approach the Lord.
John 6:44 NLT – “For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.”
NLT - “And I will give them one heart and one purpose: to worship me forever, for their own good and for the good of all their descendants. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good for them. I will put a desire in their hearts to worship me, and they will never leave me.”
The first highlight above; does the text not sound like the promise given to Abraham? It should, for it is the same and Holy Promise:
Genesis 17:2, 7-8 NLT - 2 “I will make a covenant with you, by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants.”... 7 “I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 And I will give the entire land of Canaan, where you now live as a foreigner, to you and your descendants. It will be their possession forever, and I will be their God.”
But back to Jeremiah: Even more incredibly, the NLT translates the ancient text as “I will put a desire in their hearts . . .” – One mustn’t be required to be a Biblical Scholar to understand this text and what it implies. According to the story, a small child will acknowledge that Israel must be given the ability to desire a lifetime of worshipping the Lord because that ability was not with or within them. Think about it: Why would the Lord put “desire” within a person’s heart if that “desire” was pre-existent and thriving? And so what is this Holy “desire”? This “desire” is a thought process; it is the way in which we perceive something that we claim we Truly Love. This Holy desire is so strong that a person to whom it has been granted, they are compelled to and successfully [will] change. Being given this new Heart is much like being freed from the trap of limited thinking and perceptibility.
Question: If a person possesses “free will” and has the personal power to choose to obey or not obey, why must that same person be given a new heart (if the purpose of the New Heart is to cause an effect)? The Jeremiah passages above clearly state the purpose of being given a new heart, which is . . . SO THAT a person will worship God forever, and this is not only for “their good,” but also for the “good of all their descendants.” But more, the purpose is Rebirth. The purpose is Regeneration. The purpose is Purification. The purpose is to replace the “old man” with the “New Man” and “New Woman.” The purpose is to be set free of the captivity of the Devil, which compels us to do his, Satan’s evil and pleasurable will. The purpose is to cause us to change from being self-centered to possessing an outward focus on others. The purpose is to cause us to become Living Sacrifices for the good of others.
Did you catch that? “For their good.” The text is clear: the Lord will replace the old, stony heart with a New, Regenerated Heart, for without this Spiritual process, no one can be saved; hence, the Work of Christ is for the Eternal good of His Elect. Again, the text is clear: this act of being given a New Heart does not originate from the choice or option of any man, woman, or child, but it is entirely the Work of our Triune God. And what is this act that releases humanity from the effects of the Sinful Nature? Colossians 2:11, 13 tells us in plain, easy-to-understand words:
NLT - 11 “When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature.” ... 13 “You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.”
2nd question: Why must a person be given a new heart SO THAT they can obey and worship without hypocrisy? Doesn’t the powerful sense of personal “free will” grant every person the ability and option to choose to obey? In contrast to that theory, the context of the story of the Bible gives us the answer: We need the Saving Power of Christ. We must be Spiritually Drawn; otherwise, none would approach the Lord.
John 6:44 NLT – “For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up.”
This is quite typical of Calvinists; they quote Jn 6:44 and never the next verse. So I will. This verse explains clearly who WILL come to Jesus.
v.45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
The red words are clear: Everyone has been taught by God. What does that mean? Rom 1:19-21
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
The red verse in v.19 and 20 reveal what God has taught everyone: that He exists as Creator.
The green words say plainly that no one has an excuse. For what?
The purple words explain for what. Even though they KNEW (that) God (existed), they didn't glorify Him as (Creator) God, nor gave thanks to Him.
Back to v.45: the blue words are the keys to who will come to Jesus; those who have "listened and learned" from the Father.
The orange words is the result of listening and learning from the Father; they will come to Jesus.
And the Bible provides a beautiful example of Jn 6:45 and Rom 1:19-21 in Cornelius the Greek Centurion who not only knew that God existed, he prayed to Him continually, and gave alms to the poor.
So God provided to him more information, from Peter, who "will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved". Acts 11:14
There are no verses that teach that God causes anyone to believe, or that regeneration is necessary so that people can and will believe.
Sticking with Day 228 of the timeline, chronoloogical reading plan, Jeremiah gives us another passage where it is said that God will cause a specific event to happen. What is that event that the Lord will put into action? The restoration of Israel and Judah in a total sense.
Jeremiah 33:7-9 NKJV – “And I will cause the captives of Judah and the captives of Israel to return, and will rebuild those places as at the first. ‘I will cleanse them from all their iniquity by which they have sinned against Me, and I will pardon all their iniquities by which they have sinned and by which they have transgressed against Me. ‘Then it shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise, and an honor before all nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them; they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and all the prosperity that I provide for it.”
First and foremost, the purpose of this restoration is to make a bold and Powerful point (of who God is) to the rest of the world. “All Nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them (Israel); they shall fear and tremble . . .” The Lord is pointing out that He alone possesses the Power to cause Israel to become whatever He deems. The question is, “How does the Lord do this?”
First, Jeremiah 31:28 states that the Lord will not only watch over Israel to ensure they are planted, rooted, and built up, but God also watched over them as He broke them down, plucked them up, destroyed them, and afflicted them (as pointed out below):
Jeremiah 31:28 NLT – “In the past I deliberately uprooted and tore down this nation. I overthrew it, destroyed it, and brought disaster upon it. But in the future I will just as deliberately plant it and build it up. I, the LORD, have spoken!”
As Scripture proves, the Lord takes complete responsibility for the path of Israel when He acknowledges that He alone brought these disasters upon Israel and Judah, which, as a result, only made their ability to live a Pure, Righteous, and Holy Life that much more impossible (the life of their Father, Abraham). In fact, the Scriptures tell us that all of Israel has been placed (and remains) under a Spiritual Veil that would not allow them to see, hear, walk, nor Understand Godly principles.
2 Corinthians 3:14-15 NLT – “But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.”
Clearly, and according to Paul in the passages above, Israel’s sense of “free will” was at best . . . taken from them. Their unregenerated minds and hearts were not “free” to understand the Truth. “Free will,” then, did not exist in a manner that would allow the Blessed Jews to formulate and establish sound Biblical principles that would guide their lives. The Jews, perhaps more than any other group on the planet, remain held captive by Satan to do his will (to this day).
2 Timothy 2:26 NLT – “Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.”
Where is personal freedom in the 2nd Timothy passage above? Where is the “freedom” for the unregenerate to rightly divide and Understand the Truth?
But, back to the Jeremiah passage at the beginning of this post. How does the Lord restore Israel from being taken captive, completely owned, and left penniless by the Babylonians? Will we acknowledge that the Lord used king Nebuchadnezzar as His “servant” to achieve His Almighty Plan?
Jeremiah 43:10 NKJV - “. . . and say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden. And he will spread his royal pavilion over them.”
So again, how does the Lord use Nebuchadnezzar? First, the Lord controls even the animals so that they will “serve” the corrupt king:
Jeremiah 27:6 NKJV – “And now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant; and the beasts of the field I have also given him to serve him.”
Clearly, the beasts of the field were caused to “serve” the king. And this is the point: the Lord causes people and even animals to do as He, the Lord, desires in order to fulfill His Plan. In restoring Israel and Judah, the Jews somehow transition from being penniless to possessing enough money to purchase land. How can this happen unless the Lord turns the world’s hatred for Judah around?
Jeremiah 23:3 NKJV - “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.”
Jeremiah 32:44 NKJV – “Men will buy fields for money, sign deeds and seal them, and take witnesses, in the land of Benjamin, in the places around Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, in the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the lowland, and in the cities of the South; for I will cause their captives to return,’ says the LORD.”
Somehow, the world will change its disgusted view of Israel, for they will once again become powerful to the degree that the people from Ammon will obey them. The only way the Lord can do these things is by being in control of the minds and hearts of the enemies of Israel.
Isaiah 11:14 NKJV – “But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; Together they shall plunder the people of the East; They shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; And the people of Ammon shall obey them.”
Was being taken captive the free choice of Israel? Was the restoration of Israel also from their own sense of powerful “free will?” Or was (and is) the Lord in control of Israel and those who surround them to this day?
“Free will?” I think not. Instead, the Power and Plan of God are precisely what the Bible is about. The Bible is about Power and how the Lord uses His Power to make His Name known to all Nations of the earth. The Lord is in control of us . . . our destinies are not within our grasp and control.
Jeremiah 33:7-9 NKJV – “And I will cause the captives of Judah and the captives of Israel to return, and will rebuild those places as at the first. ‘I will cleanse them from all their iniquity by which they have sinned against Me, and I will pardon all their iniquities by which they have sinned and by which they have transgressed against Me. ‘Then it shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise, and an honor before all nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them; they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and all the prosperity that I provide for it.”
First and foremost, the purpose of this restoration is to make a bold and Powerful point (of who God is) to the rest of the world. “All Nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them (Israel); they shall fear and tremble . . .” The Lord is pointing out that He alone possesses the Power to cause Israel to become whatever He deems. The question is, “How does the Lord do this?”
First, Jeremiah 31:28 states that the Lord will not only watch over Israel to ensure they are planted, rooted, and built up, but God also watched over them as He broke them down, plucked them up, destroyed them, and afflicted them (as pointed out below):
Jeremiah 31:28 NLT – “In the past I deliberately uprooted and tore down this nation. I overthrew it, destroyed it, and brought disaster upon it. But in the future I will just as deliberately plant it and build it up. I, the LORD, have spoken!”
As Scripture proves, the Lord takes complete responsibility for the path of Israel when He acknowledges that He alone brought these disasters upon Israel and Judah, which, as a result, only made their ability to live a Pure, Righteous, and Holy Life that much more impossible (the life of their Father, Abraham). In fact, the Scriptures tell us that all of Israel has been placed (and remains) under a Spiritual Veil that would not allow them to see, hear, walk, nor Understand Godly principles.
2 Corinthians 3:14-15 NLT – “But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.”
Clearly, and according to Paul in the passages above, Israel’s sense of “free will” was at best . . . taken from them. Their unregenerated minds and hearts were not “free” to understand the Truth. “Free will,” then, did not exist in a manner that would allow the Blessed Jews to formulate and establish sound Biblical principles that would guide their lives. The Jews, perhaps more than any other group on the planet, remain held captive by Satan to do his will (to this day).
2 Timothy 2:26 NLT – “Then they will come to their senses and escape from the devil’s trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.”
Where is personal freedom in the 2nd Timothy passage above? Where is the “freedom” for the unregenerate to rightly divide and Understand the Truth?
But, back to the Jeremiah passage at the beginning of this post. How does the Lord restore Israel from being taken captive, completely owned, and left penniless by the Babylonians? Will we acknowledge that the Lord used king Nebuchadnezzar as His “servant” to achieve His Almighty Plan?
Jeremiah 43:10 NKJV - “. . . and say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden. And he will spread his royal pavilion over them.”
So again, how does the Lord use Nebuchadnezzar? First, the Lord controls even the animals so that they will “serve” the corrupt king:
Jeremiah 27:6 NKJV – “And now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant; and the beasts of the field I have also given him to serve him.”
Clearly, the beasts of the field were caused to “serve” the king. And this is the point: the Lord causes people and even animals to do as He, the Lord, desires in order to fulfill His Plan. In restoring Israel and Judah, the Jews somehow transition from being penniless to possessing enough money to purchase land. How can this happen unless the Lord turns the world’s hatred for Judah around?
Jeremiah 23:3 NKJV - “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.”
Jeremiah 32:44 NKJV – “Men will buy fields for money, sign deeds and seal them, and take witnesses, in the land of Benjamin, in the places around Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, in the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the lowland, and in the cities of the South; for I will cause their captives to return,’ says the LORD.”
Somehow, the world will change its disgusted view of Israel, for they will once again become powerful to the degree that the people from Ammon will obey them. The only way the Lord can do these things is by being in control of the minds and hearts of the enemies of Israel.
Isaiah 11:14 NKJV – “But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; Together they shall plunder the people of the East; They shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; And the people of Ammon shall obey them.”
Was being taken captive the free choice of Israel? Was the restoration of Israel also from their own sense of powerful “free will?” Or was (and is) the Lord in control of Israel and those who surround them to this day?
“Free will?” I think not. Instead, the Power and Plan of God are precisely what the Bible is about. The Bible is about Power and how the Lord uses His Power to make His Name known to all Nations of the earth. The Lord is in control of us . . . our destinies are not within our grasp and control.
I find these discussions very strange. The title suggests an in depth discourse yet I find the same ole arguments. Some will reference Calvin, but Luther wrote bondage of the will before Calvin was even a Christian and he wrote in response to Erasmus who wrote about the Human will. They had a correspondence debate of you will. However Augustine addresses the subject far earlier.
I think that I hear and understand what you're saying. What I am doing in this thread is a bit different. I am offering up an exhaustive side of this concept of "free will" that most haven't considered. In the process, this thread has REALLY become about the Power and Plan of God and how He executes that Plan.
Dirtman said:
I find these discussions very strange. The title suggests an in depth discourse yet I find the same ole arguments. Some will reference Calvin, but Luther wrote bondage of the will before Calvin was even a Christian and he wrote in response to Erasmus who wrote about the Human will. They had a correspondence debate of you will. However Augustine addresses the subject far earlier.
Free will only refers to the free choice between available options. And the gospel presents options; to believe the promise of eternal life through faith in Christ or not.
Of course, this explanation eliminates the Calvinist view of things, so he must produce volumes and volumes of posts trying to show that man is unable to make a choice between salvation and the LOF.
And, really, there is a choice before the gospel can be presented. Does God even exist? Rom 1:19-21 says that God has revealed Himself to everyone so that no one has an excuse to NOT recognize God as Creator and be thankful to Him.
But the Calvinists seem very uncomfortable with all of this.
I find these discussions very strange. The title suggests an in depth discourse yet I find the same ole arguments. Some will reference Calvin, but Luther wrote bondage of the will before Calvin was even a Christian and he wrote in response to Erasmus who wrote about the Human will. They had a correspondence debate of you will. However Augustine addresses the subject far earlier.
This is for Dirtman sincd 2TG has me on ignore. The whole issue of "free will" has been explained to him, but he either couldn't understand it or he just dismissed it out of hand because it wasn't calvinist enough.
Free will only refers to the free choice between available options. And the gospel presents options; to believe the promise of eternal life through faith in Christ or not.
Of course, this explanation eliminates the Calvinist view of things, so he must produce volumes and volumes of posts trying to show that man is unable to make a choice between salvation and the LOF.
And, really, there is a choice before the gospel can be presented. Does God even exist? Rom 1:19-21 says that God has revealed Himself to everyone so that no one has an excuse to NOT recognize God as Creator and be thankful to Him.
But the Calvinists seem very uncomfortable with all of this.
FreeGrace2 said:
But the Calvinists seem very uncomfortable with all of this.
Calvinists think their doctrine is straight out of the Bible. But the odd thing is, they can't find any verse that states any of their TULIP petals, except when the P stands for preservation. But these days it seems they have changed the P to mean "perseverance", in spite of Jesus' parable of the soils.
But the Calvinists seem very uncomfortable with all of this.
When did disagreement mean "hatred"? Calm down. You aren't hated. Not even your doctrine. I just keep asking questions that you won't answer. Because the answer refutes Calvinism, which is what you HATE.
Calvinists think their doctrine is straight out of the Bible. But the odd thing is, they can't find any verse that states any of their TULIP petals, except when the P stands for preservation. But these days it seems they have changed the P to mean "perseverance", in spite of Jesus' parable of the soils.
I recommend reading Bondage of the Will, by Luther. Luther comes off rather Calvinist but its because he is refuting Erasmus. But I also recommend Augustine. I personally have some serious problems with Calvin as I think he was disqualified to be a pastor or church leader according to the standards set in the letter to Timothy.
Maybe y'all will find this helpful.
Article XVIII. Of Free Will.
1 Of Free Will they teach that man’s will has some liberty to choose civil righteousness, and to work 2 things subject to reason. But it has no power, without the Holy Ghost, to work the righteousness of God, that is, spiritual righteousness; since the natural man 3 receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, 1 Cor. 2:14; but this righteousness is wrought in the heart when the Holy Ghost is received 4 through the Word. These things are said in as many words by Augustine in his Hypognosticon, Book III: We grant that all men have a free will, free, inasmuch as it has the judgment of reason; not that it is thereby capable, without God, either to begin, or, at least, to complete aught in things pertaining to God, but only in works of this life, whether good 5 or evil. “Good” I call those works which spring from the good in nature, such as, willing to labor in the field, to eat and drink, to have a friend, to clothe oneself, to build a house, to marry a wife, to raise cattle, to learn diverse useful arts, or whatsoever good 6 pertains to this life. For all of these things are not without dependence on the providence of God; yea, of Him and through Him they are and have their being. “Evil” 7 I call such works as willing to worship an idol, to commit murder, etc. 8 They condemn the Pelagians and others, who teach that without the Holy Ghost, by the power of nature alone, we are able to love God above all things; also to do the commandments of God as touching “the substance of the act.” For, although nature is able in a manner to do the outward work, 9 (for it is able to keep the hands from theft and murder,) yet it cannot produce the inward motions, such as the fear of God, trust in God, chastity, patience, etc.
Article XVIII. Of Free Will.
1 Of Free Will they teach that man’s will has some liberty to choose civil righteousness, and to work 2 things subject to reason. But it has no power, without the Holy Ghost, to work the righteousness of God, that is, spiritual righteousness; since the natural man 3 receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, 1 Cor. 2:14; but this righteousness is wrought in the heart when the Holy Ghost is received 4 through the Word. These things are said in as many words by Augustine in his Hypognosticon, Book III: We grant that all men have a free will, free, inasmuch as it has the judgment of reason; not that it is thereby capable, without God, either to begin, or, at least, to complete aught in things pertaining to God, but only in works of this life, whether good 5 or evil. “Good” I call those works which spring from the good in nature, such as, willing to labor in the field, to eat and drink, to have a friend, to clothe oneself, to build a house, to marry a wife, to raise cattle, to learn diverse useful arts, or whatsoever good 6 pertains to this life. For all of these things are not without dependence on the providence of God; yea, of Him and through Him they are and have their being. “Evil” 7 I call such works as willing to worship an idol, to commit murder, etc. 8 They condemn the Pelagians and others, who teach that without the Holy Ghost, by the power of nature alone, we are able to love God above all things; also to do the commandments of God as touching “the substance of the act.” For, although nature is able in a manner to do the outward work, 9 (for it is able to keep the hands from theft and murder,) yet it cannot produce the inward motions, such as the fear of God, trust in God, chastity, patience, etc.
God Rules the Nations - Back to the Bible Canada (<= link)
I thought of you while listening to this
You may enjoy/benefit from todays' teaching 
I thought of you while listening to this
You may enjoy/benefit from todays' teaching
I hear what you're saying. However, I don't read commentary anymore . . . not unless I feel that I am stumped on an issue and need some sort of clarification. I'd much rather come here and speak/ write with kind and mature folks who can handle different opinions.
2 Chronicles 36:22-23 NKJV - "Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying, Thus says Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth the LORD God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May the LORD his God be with him, and let him go up!"
King Cyrus had put together the largest empire that the world had ever seen. It is said that Cyrus was well known for respecting the customs and religions of the lands he had conquered. The question is, how did this happen? Cyrus tells us himself in verse 23 above, which is that the Lord had given these kingdoms to him. Clearly, the nations conquered by Cyrus were not by his strength and power, but by the Power of the Lord, for those kingdoms were “given me.” And so, we find that Cyrus has been “stirred” by the Lord to assist the Blessed Jews with the building of their temple. Cyrus was critical in the release of the Jews from Babylon and return to Zion. And this takes us back to the opening passages where it is stated that the Lord “stirred” the heart of Cyrus, meaning that if God had not performed this “stirring,” these events would not have taken place. If these events would have taken place without the “stirring” of the Lord, then there would be no reason for the Lord to “stir” Cyrus, king of Persia.
The bottom line is this: The Lord caused Cyrus to think and act as he did, which was to be the ultimate WatchGuard for the Jews to not only assist in setting them free, but also in the building of their temple. Since this is the case, we can conclude that Cyrus was NOT given the choice to think and act as he did. In fact, if a person had asked the king if these decisions were his choice, he would likely conclude that he agreed with the Lord to do the things that he had done. But what we cannot do is strip our Powerful God of His Power . . . the Power to psychologically induce the king of Persia to think and act as he did.
If this is the case, and it certainly seems as though it is, is this considered an inappropriate action by the Lord against the will of the king of Persia? Was the king given a choice to think and act as he had, or were his thoughts and actions a Spiritual edict of the Lord? My opinion is that these things were done against the sense of “free will” of the king of Persia with the intense purpose of showing the world just how Powerful and Almighty God really and Truly is.
King Cyrus had put together the largest empire that the world had ever seen. It is said that Cyrus was well known for respecting the customs and religions of the lands he had conquered. The question is, how did this happen? Cyrus tells us himself in verse 23 above, which is that the Lord had given these kingdoms to him. Clearly, the nations conquered by Cyrus were not by his strength and power, but by the Power of the Lord, for those kingdoms were “given me.” And so, we find that Cyrus has been “stirred” by the Lord to assist the Blessed Jews with the building of their temple. Cyrus was critical in the release of the Jews from Babylon and return to Zion. And this takes us back to the opening passages where it is stated that the Lord “stirred” the heart of Cyrus, meaning that if God had not performed this “stirring,” these events would not have taken place. If these events would have taken place without the “stirring” of the Lord, then there would be no reason for the Lord to “stir” Cyrus, king of Persia.
The bottom line is this: The Lord caused Cyrus to think and act as he did, which was to be the ultimate WatchGuard for the Jews to not only assist in setting them free, but also in the building of their temple. Since this is the case, we can conclude that Cyrus was NOT given the choice to think and act as he did. In fact, if a person had asked the king if these decisions were his choice, he would likely conclude that he agreed with the Lord to do the things that he had done. But what we cannot do is strip our Powerful God of His Power . . . the Power to psychologically induce the king of Persia to think and act as he did.
If this is the case, and it certainly seems as though it is, is this considered an inappropriate action by the Lord against the will of the king of Persia? Was the king given a choice to think and act as he had, or were his thoughts and actions a Spiritual edict of the Lord? My opinion is that these things were done against the sense of “free will” of the king of Persia with the intense purpose of showing the world just how Powerful and Almighty God really and Truly is.
Day 237 of the timeline, chronological reading plan reminds us of the Eternal Plan of God, for the terminology is plain and clear. Lamentations 2:17 reads as follows:
NLT – “But it is the LORD who did just as he planned. He has fulfilled the promises of disaster he made long ago. He has destroyed Jerusalem without mercy. He has caused her enemies to gloat over her and has given them power over her.”
The Eternal Plan. What is it? This Plan centers around the Power of God in terms of what only He can do, both with the Jews and the grafting in of the Gentiles. The Lord does this through sheer, utter, and total Power and control over His entire creation. Did you note how the above passage states that it is God who issues Power to one Nation over another? God controls those who control others on this planet, for the Lord proves this over His ability to fight for Israel.
Deut 7:7 NLT - "The LORD did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations!"
There is a pre-Planned purpose in the Lord's choosing of Israel. He Planned the choosing of the smallest of Nations so that by and through His Power alone, He would complete and prove His Almighty and incredible Plan to the Rulers and Authorities of the heavenly realms.
Ephesians 3:10-11 NLT – “God’s purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.”
“Rich Variety” is an alternate way of saying “Power.” And as the Bible states, God Himself placed Israel into a “deep sleep” from which only He can provide relief. Under no circumstances was/is Israel able to remove themselves from this “deep sleep,” nor is any Gentile able to relieve themselves of the Sinful Nature. Just as Ephesians 3:11 states above, to be awakened or “made alive” requires the Power of Christ alone. There is no human power or capability to provide self-relief from the dominating influence of the Sinful Nature (the mind of Satan). Thus, we have the basis and establishment of an Eternal Plan, and all who the Father had given to Christ (chosen based upon pre-election), He should lose none of them.
John 6:37-39 NLT – “However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.”
Just as Jesus will lose none that the Father had given Him, Jesus lived to execute the Will of His Father. Just as Jesus will lose none, Jesus [will] complete the Will of His Father, and there is no alternative. It is guaranteed that those who the Father had given Christ, He should lose none. Therefore, that Jesus would perform the Will of His Father is equally guaranteed. Consequently, we should [not] look upon John 37-39 as some sort of admission that Jesus possessed self-will. If Jesus had the capacity to disregard the command of His Father, which was to be the Savior of His Holy Elect, an Eternal Plan would be utterly impossible (if based upon pre-planned chance). If humans could choose, direct, and control their own lives, the possibility of God’s Eternal Plan coming to fruition would be so utterly remote that the odds would be staggering.
Looking back to Lamentations 2:17, consider the wording:
1) Planned
2) Promises
3) Caused
4) Power
We mere humans may have the capacity to plan and promise, but we do not possess the Spiritual Power to Cause another to think or act as does the Lord. We may make plans, but the Lord fulfills His Plans apart from our thoughts, desires, and “choices.”
As Job said in Job 23:13-14:
NLT – “But once he has made his decision, who can change his mind? Whatever he wants to do, he does. So he will do to me whatever he has planned. He controls my destiny.”
NLT – “But it is the LORD who did just as he planned. He has fulfilled the promises of disaster he made long ago. He has destroyed Jerusalem without mercy. He has caused her enemies to gloat over her and has given them power over her.”
The Eternal Plan. What is it? This Plan centers around the Power of God in terms of what only He can do, both with the Jews and the grafting in of the Gentiles. The Lord does this through sheer, utter, and total Power and control over His entire creation. Did you note how the above passage states that it is God who issues Power to one Nation over another? God controls those who control others on this planet, for the Lord proves this over His ability to fight for Israel.
Deut 7:7 NLT - "The LORD did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations!"
There is a pre-Planned purpose in the Lord's choosing of Israel. He Planned the choosing of the smallest of Nations so that by and through His Power alone, He would complete and prove His Almighty and incredible Plan to the Rulers and Authorities of the heavenly realms.
Ephesians 3:10-11 NLT – “God’s purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.”
“Rich Variety” is an alternate way of saying “Power.” And as the Bible states, God Himself placed Israel into a “deep sleep” from which only He can provide relief. Under no circumstances was/is Israel able to remove themselves from this “deep sleep,” nor is any Gentile able to relieve themselves of the Sinful Nature. Just as Ephesians 3:11 states above, to be awakened or “made alive” requires the Power of Christ alone. There is no human power or capability to provide self-relief from the dominating influence of the Sinful Nature (the mind of Satan). Thus, we have the basis and establishment of an Eternal Plan, and all who the Father had given to Christ (chosen based upon pre-election), He should lose none of them.
John 6:37-39 NLT – “However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will. And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.”
Just as Jesus will lose none that the Father had given Him, Jesus lived to execute the Will of His Father. Just as Jesus will lose none, Jesus [will] complete the Will of His Father, and there is no alternative. It is guaranteed that those who the Father had given Christ, He should lose none. Therefore, that Jesus would perform the Will of His Father is equally guaranteed. Consequently, we should [not] look upon John 37-39 as some sort of admission that Jesus possessed self-will. If Jesus had the capacity to disregard the command of His Father, which was to be the Savior of His Holy Elect, an Eternal Plan would be utterly impossible (if based upon pre-planned chance). If humans could choose, direct, and control their own lives, the possibility of God’s Eternal Plan coming to fruition would be so utterly remote that the odds would be staggering.
Looking back to Lamentations 2:17, consider the wording:
1) Planned
2) Promises
3) Caused
4) Power
We mere humans may have the capacity to plan and promise, but we do not possess the Spiritual Power to Cause another to think or act as does the Lord. We may make plans, but the Lord fulfills His Plans apart from our thoughts, desires, and “choices.”
As Job said in Job 23:13-14:
NLT – “But once he has made his decision, who can change his mind? Whatever he wants to do, he does. So he will do to me whatever he has planned. He controls my destiny.”
So do you believe God has chosen some for Salvation before the foundation, and likewise appointed some to damnation before the foundation ?
It seems that this is what the Bible is about. Which is that there is a Vine of Holy people surrounded by the vast majority that were not of God. A study of the Seven Nations would be helpful, for these nations (and the many sub-nations) were utter abominations. These include the giant races, who allegedly were literally eating humans as a snack. These abominations were called, by God, to be completely and utterly destroyed . . . including children and animals. To the east, however, this is where the Gentiles were located. The women of the East could be taken captive and enjoined in marriage, but those of the Seven Nations were to be destroyed. They were not of God.
So again, the Bible is about a Holy Vine that the Lord will enjoin the Gentiles to be saved through Christ. This Vine and those Gentiules who have been and will be grafted in, they will be of the "Remnant." Those qualified to be actually Saved are extremely few, hence the Vine. This Vine struggles to remain . . . it is not an easy life. But through sifting, those who were merely clinging onto the vine instead of being a part of the vine, they fall off and away. Those who endure the life of the Vine, these are the True Elect.
Those who are not of the Elect are not of God. Those who [are] of the Elect, these are the ones from God. So yes, I believe that God has chosen some for Salvation before the foundation of the earth and likewise appointed others to damnation before the foundation of the earth.
Why? Because this physical world is a demonstration of what God can do. He isn't doing this just for us, but as a demonstration for and to the Rulers and Authorities in the Heavenly Realms.
Ephesians 3:10-11 NLT - "God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. 11 This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."
There is a Plan and it is being executed. Each moment is planned. God is in control. We are not in control. Events take place at specific times and through specific people. God does no guessing. God is never unsure of His Holy Plan. There is no detail that stumps the Lord.
If anyone has yet to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order, I highly encourage that you begin today. Start at day one today! Do not delay! To begin reading the Bible with the intent purpose of seeing and understanding the Plan of God . . . I absolutely guarantee and promise that your scope and understanding of the Word will never be the same. You will "see" things that no one had ever told or taught you. The Story of God, which is the Gospel, will unfold before your very eyes. As you follow the Bible in a linear fashion, the single most unbelievable story of Power and utter control of God in how He constantly shapes and moulds the events of the world. It is all recorded right there in our remarkable Bible.
Read any version. Read them all! When you're finished reading the NIV translation, follow the timeline, chronological reading plan but with a different translation. In my current reading of the Old Testament, I use the Jewish Tanakh, which I highly recommend. It is worded and phrased so beautifully. The Tanakh even contains a few passages that our Bibles do not.
Here's a link for anyone who'd like to print out a copy of the timeline, chronological reading plan:
Blue Letter Bible Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
Begin today! Begin reading the Bible, but process each passage through a filter, and that filter is this: "What does this have to do with the Mysterious Plan of God?"
Ephesians 1:9 NLT - "God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure."
Ephesians 3:3, 9 NLT - "As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me." ... 9 "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning."
Ephesians 6:19 NLT - "And pray for me, too. Ask God to give me the right words so I can boldly explain God's mysterious plan that the Good News is for Jews and Gentiles alike."
If Paul asks that others would pray that he would be bold in his explanations of this Mysterious Plan, which [is] the Heart of the Gospel, we can then know that this is no simple task . . . to teach the full Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Plan of God is outlined in our complete Bible. By reading the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, we will literally see His Plan develop, and we will even read of the roots of His Plan, where they exist, and what Powers them, thus causing all Plans to be fulfilled.
Reading the Bible for the first time in this way will be the most unbelievable "read" of your life. It is so incredibly exciting at times, but within just a short paragraph away, all calamity strikes once again. This incredible story is dominated by the ups and downs of drama, drama, drama. The incredible, mind-blowing stories are constant. In fact, how these stories interrelate with one another seems utterly impossible that mere humans could write it, or even conceive of it. Ultimately, there is far more sorrow in the Bible than there are moments of good, easy, and simple living. But our entire Bible is about realizing that we MUST be included in that Holy Vine. If we do not belong to that Vine, we're in Eternal trouble. Anyone who has experienced the Terror of the Lord, these are the ones who will tell you that it is all-critical to be sure that you belong to that Vine.
Read any version. Read them all! When you're finished reading the NIV translation, follow the timeline, chronological reading plan but with a different translation. In my current reading of the Old Testament, I use the Jewish Tanakh, which I highly recommend. It is worded and phrased so beautifully. The Tanakh even contains a few passages that our Bibles do not.
Here's a link for anyone who'd like to print out a copy of the timeline, chronological reading plan:
Blue Letter Bible Timeline Chronological Reading Plan
Begin today! Begin reading the Bible, but process each passage through a filter, and that filter is this: "What does this have to do with the Mysterious Plan of God?"
Ephesians 1:9 NLT - "God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure."
Ephesians 3:3, 9 NLT - "As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me." ... 9 "I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning."
Ephesians 6:19 NLT - "And pray for me, too. Ask God to give me the right words so I can boldly explain God's mysterious plan that the Good News is for Jews and Gentiles alike."
If Paul asks that others would pray that he would be bold in his explanations of this Mysterious Plan, which [is] the Heart of the Gospel, we can then know that this is no simple task . . . to teach the full Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Plan of God is outlined in our complete Bible. By reading the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, we will literally see His Plan develop, and we will even read of the roots of His Plan, where they exist, and what Powers them, thus causing all Plans to be fulfilled.
Reading the Bible for the first time in this way will be the most unbelievable "read" of your life. It is so incredibly exciting at times, but within just a short paragraph away, all calamity strikes once again. This incredible story is dominated by the ups and downs of drama, drama, drama. The incredible, mind-blowing stories are constant. In fact, how these stories interrelate with one another seems utterly impossible that mere humans could write it, or even conceive of it. Ultimately, there is far more sorrow in the Bible than there are moments of good, easy, and simple living. But our entire Bible is about realizing that we MUST be included in that Holy Vine. If we do not belong to that Vine, we're in Eternal trouble. Anyone who has experienced the Terror of the Lord, these are the ones who will tell you that it is all-critical to be sure that you belong to that Vine.
2timg
Thats good,because He certainly has, and you appear to be consistent.
This is good, but why not just use the word purpose instead of plan ?
Again Purpose
Earlier you made a comment, could you please clarify ?
Qualified, what meaneth thee by that word please ?
Thats good,because He certainly has, and you appear to be consistent.
This is good, but why not just use the word purpose instead of plan ?
Again Purpose
Earlier you made a comment, could you please clarify ?
Qualified, what meaneth thee by that word please ?
Thank you.
Because the word "Plan" is commonly used in about half the translations that I reference. It is a key word within the Bible.
I don't know what this is in reference to.
Those who have been relieved of the Curse of the Lord. Those who have been granted the ability to repent and have done so. Those who have received the Eternal Gift of the Holy Spirit. Those who have placed their trust in the Power of Christ and His Resurrection. In other words, those who believe the Gospel and have been granted the ability to act upon that belief.