I'm Lutheran and not spiritually dead at all. I see God working in mine and others lives like never before.
Former pentecostal
- Thread starter JonathanBentley
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RichMan
Guest
The word perfect most often means complete.
Just because we do not have the original manuscripts does not mean the Scripture is not complete.
I have a Pentecostal friend and we discuss Scripture often.
We agree on many things and disagree on some.
We disagree in tongues. We agree to disagree and never discuss the subject.
I do not wish to offend anyone.
We disagree. I am convinced I am right based on Scripture and you are convinced you are right based on Scripture and neither will change their mind, so why not just move on and be friends.
i am happy for you <3
i tried to be happy in the others. i always studied and followed the Pastors leading. was in Groups and did things for the Community. but i felt trapped and was not able to Worship God in freedom when in those Church settings. one time i just felt like i read about king David, who stripped down and danced as the Ark of the Covenant was approaching. they almost tackled me like i was possessed. but i looked at them and said, i see the presence of God in Worship is not welcomed here. i Rebuked them and walked out.
years later, several of those same people started going to Church where i was attending. they were suffocating as well. but that is Spiritual Growth. we cannot live on Milk forever.
btw, i did not strip, i was just swaying with my hands in the air and my praying voice grew stronger than normal.
isn't when we see Jesus as He really is in His Glory going to be a Perfection to Come, like the Church Fathers claim?
look at what Paul says here in 1 Corinthians 13:
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
this what Origen claims:
Origen:
combines Verse 12 with 10 when we see Jesus [face to face]
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RichMan
Guest
Paul said "that which is perfect" not "who that is perfect".
Could care less what "the church fathers" said.
We disagree. I will leave it there.
i like how it is written in the most original Greek used by Jerome in 380 AD:
1 Corinthians:
10 but when that which is perfect has come,
then that which is partial will pass away.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly,
but then face to face.
this what Origen claims:
Origen:
combines Verse 12 with 10 when we see Jesus [face to face]
1 Corinthians:
10 but when that which is perfect has come,
then that which is partial will pass away.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly,
but then face to face.
this what Origen claims:
Origen:
combines Verse 12 with 10 when we see Jesus [face to face]
can you look at a Bible and see the Real Face of Jesus face to face in All His Glory?
i think it's rather clear what Paul is claiming. face to face is not looking at the Words in a Book, but WHO the Book is talking about!
So worship in spirit and truth means dancing? Because David danced. Not that I'm against dancing. But I thought the meat was the Holy Spirit enacting his word in your heart and soul. That your life become conformed to his word.
Seems to me (I could be wrong) that you were trying to be alive by works. We cant accomplish life only his word in us can.
has anyone of us seen the Glorified Jesus Who is now sitting at the right hand of the Father face to face?
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RichMan
Guest
Is it proper to use "that" when referring to a person?
Do not know who you are quoting.
Again, others opinions have little to no influence on my belief.
knowledge is everything, which is MEAT, but Worship is honoring God because of All He is and what He's done and the Knowledge we know of Him!
face to face is a Person!
when you look at the Bible closed you see a Cover, when it is opened you see white pages with black and red letters.
big difference.
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RichMan
Guest
But you did not answer my question.
When I read and study the Word of God, I do see Him face to face.
Those who do not are missing a blessing.
no you don't!
what you see now is nowhere close to what you will see when you see Him Perfect in His Glory as King of kings and Lord of lords.
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RichMan
Guest
even when Jesus came to Earth He came as Isaiah described Him as being a tender root [weak], comely [ugly]. so even the Disciples did not see Him as He would be.
Yes, it is Proper, because no one can ever imagine what Jesus as King of kings and Lord of lords is.
it's no different than the Original Greek saying Jesus said [[IT]] when referring to the Holy Spirit. it does not change what the Holy Spirit is.
it's no different than the Original Greek saying Jesus said [[IT]] when referring to the Holy Spirit. it does not change what the Holy Spirit is.
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RichMan
Guest
I noticed you did not quote verse 13 that states only faith, hope and love continue.
Tongues is not mentioned.
Good night all.
neither is knowledge or prophecy listed.
but are you more knowledgeable now than when you began your journey in God?
is there still prophecy to be fulfilled?
these things are a given. Paul had a mature audience. too bad some readers don't understand what he's saying.