Well yes... The two or three are believers gathered in a church setting. They each have been indwelt. So how is that related to the passage?
Food for thought
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Well yes... The two or three are believers gathered in a church setting. They each have been indwelt. So how is that related to the passage?
It's the same Spirit of the Father and the Son.
I believe that the setting is when in prayer to the Father in Jesus' name asking for spiritual favor.
Deut 4 : 39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord, he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else.
There is only one God of heaven and earth and no one else. The heavens and the earth are in our reality, and the God of our reality is Christ (the Son of the invisible God). Our reality is in the mind of the Father. That is why He knows all things, is everywhere, can do all things, can create out of nothing, transcends time, and most importantly creates realities. It is presumptuous and prideful of us to think that our reality is the only one created by a being that has always existed. The Father interacts with the realities he creates through His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a portal through which the Father communicates with and empowers the beings He indwells. The God of our reality is Christ, but the God of all realities is the Father. The first living, thinking, feeling being in our reality was put there by the Father and is referred to as the only begotten Son of God. The Father is connected to the Son in our reality through His Holy Spirit. The Son is so filled with the Holy Spirit of the Father, that the Son is the image of the invisible God. The Father communicates and empowers His Son to create our reality, and puts all things created under his feet. This authority is given to Christ by the Father. The problem arises that created beings with a free will become responsible for their decisions if they know the law. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Romans 4: 15 "Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression. "
Due to the knowledge of good and evil which we all inherit from Adam and Eve (Because of Adam and Eve's sin), we are all born under the law. The problem with humanity is their motivation for living, which is love of self (benefits achieved or satisfied). We are all headed to damnation as soon as we are born. We might argue that a baby hasn't committed a sin yet, but God knows the past, present, and future and maybe He sees the newborn in his/her entirety and not from our limited time line. Besides, who are we to judge? In God's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. Perfect justice demands that all humans be condemned because of their inperfection (their motivation for living) and their knowing the law of right and wrong. If God condemns all humans, then He would be merciless, which He is not. If He does not condemn all humans, then there would be disobedience and chaos in His kingdom. His only choice to demonstrate His Justice and Mercy is to save a few by erasing their sins and changing their motivation for living. You are baptized in the Name of the Father when you recognize that you are a sinner and the Father grants you the repentance necessary for you to turn to Him in sorrow for forgiveness. It is the Father who rewards Jesus with His own Glory (Holy Spirit portal) to form a spiritual body (the Church) of which He is the head (Lord and God). Since Christ is the Temple of the Father, we also become the Temple of the Father when we become the Temple of the Son. That is how we become One with the Father and Son. When we get baptized in the Name of the Father, we are chosen throughout the human timeline by Him to be part of His Sons body. When Christ died on the cross, He died for all mankind so that all are eligible to be saved. This makes it possible for the Father to choose anyone He wills. Those chosen are so, so grateful, and in a different state of being (born again), full of Love for God and mankind. Those not chosen will argue that it is not fair for others to be chosen but not them. Rom 9: 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then, it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. Rom 9: 19-21 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? We, as saints, have to remember that those not chosen are in a different state of being (as we were), and even though we can empathize with their situation, we have to remember that God is sovereign, just, and merciful. This should give us more incentive to do the Lord's work of spreading the Gospel through our efforts so others can have the opportunity for the Father to choose and fill with His Holy Spirit.
There is only one God of heaven and earth and no one else. The heavens and the earth are in our reality, and the God of our reality is Christ (the Son of the invisible God). Our reality is in the mind of the Father. That is why He knows all things, is everywhere, can do all things, can create out of nothing, transcends time, and most importantly creates realities. It is presumptuous and prideful of us to think that our reality is the only one created by a being that has always existed. The Father interacts with the realities he creates through His Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a portal through which the Father communicates with and empowers the beings He indwells. The God of our reality is Christ, but the God of all realities is the Father. The first living, thinking, feeling being in our reality was put there by the Father and is referred to as the only begotten Son of God. The Father is connected to the Son in our reality through His Holy Spirit. The Son is so filled with the Holy Spirit of the Father, that the Son is the image of the invisible God. The Father communicates and empowers His Son to create our reality, and puts all things created under his feet. This authority is given to Christ by the Father. The problem arises that created beings with a free will become responsible for their decisions if they know the law. Where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Romans 4: 15 "Because the law worketh wrath; for where no law is, there is no transgression. "
Due to the knowledge of good and evil which we all inherit from Adam and Eve (Because of Adam and Eve's sin), we are all born under the law. The problem with humanity is their motivation for living, which is love of self (benefits achieved or satisfied). We are all headed to damnation as soon as we are born. We might argue that a baby hasn't committed a sin yet, but God knows the past, present, and future and maybe He sees the newborn in his/her entirety and not from our limited time line. Besides, who are we to judge? In God's kingdom there is perfect justice and mercy. Perfect justice demands that all humans be condemned because of their inperfection (their motivation for living) and their knowing the law of right and wrong. If God condemns all humans, then He would be merciless, which He is not. If He does not condemn all humans, then there would be disobedience and chaos in His kingdom. His only choice to demonstrate His Justice and Mercy is to save a few by erasing their sins and changing their motivation for living. You are baptized in the Name of the Father when you recognize that you are a sinner and the Father grants you the repentance necessary for you to turn to Him in sorrow for forgiveness. It is the Father who rewards Jesus with His own Glory (Holy Spirit portal) to form a spiritual body (the Church) of which He is the head (Lord and God). Since Christ is the Temple of the Father, we also become the Temple of the Father when we become the Temple of the Son. That is how we become One with the Father and Son. When we get baptized in the Name of the Father, we are chosen throughout the human timeline by Him to be part of His Sons body. When Christ died on the cross, He died for all mankind so that all are eligible to be saved. This makes it possible for the Father to choose anyone He wills. Those chosen are so, so grateful, and in a different state of being (born again), full of Love for God and mankind. Those not chosen will argue that it is not fair for others to be chosen but not them. Rom 9: 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then, it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. Rom 9: 19-21 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? We, as saints, have to remember that those not chosen are in a different state of being (as we were), and even though we can empathize with their situation, we have to remember that God is sovereign, just, and merciful. This should give us more incentive to do the Lord's work of spreading the Gospel through our efforts so others can have the opportunity for the Father to choose and fill with His Holy Spirit.
Eph 3: 14-19 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man (the Holy Spirit's indwelling); That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend, with all saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height, and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.
Paul is praying to the Father of all created beings in heaven and earth because our reality is in the mind of the Father and the Father communicates with our reality through His Holy Spirit (the angel of His presence). Where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is present. The Holy Spirit is like a portal through which the Father can interact with our reality. It is through His Holy Spirit that the Father indwells, communicates, directs, speaks through, and empowers to accomplish His will. But then it says that Christ may dwell in our hearts. That is because when Christ ascended into heaven after He died and rose again, He went to get glorified by the Father. That means that the Son was going to have His own glory (Holy Spirit) and be able to indwell, communicate, direct, speak through, and empower to accomplish His will. Since the Son is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit, the Son's portal to us is also the Father's, and the Son's will is the Father's will (Christ is the image of the invisible God). We are then filled with the Holy Spirit (portal) for both the Father and Son. We then become part of the body of Christ and adopted children of the Father and in His Family. We become One with the Father and Son and share in the same love they share when they both get access to us through the Holy Spirit. The riches of His glory includes having direct access to the Father and Son, being directed by them, and sharing in their divine love for God and man (being rooted and grounded in love). It is this love in us through the Holy Spirit that makes us understand the love of Christ for the Father and for us by His sacrifice on the cross, as well as the love of the Father for us to have the Son He loves go through such an ordeal. We get filled with all the goodness of God when through His Holy Spirit in you, you get knowledge, direction, understanding, and love.
Paul is praying to the Father of all created beings in heaven and earth because our reality is in the mind of the Father and the Father communicates with our reality through His Holy Spirit (the angel of His presence). Where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is present. The Holy Spirit is like a portal through which the Father can interact with our reality. It is through His Holy Spirit that the Father indwells, communicates, directs, speaks through, and empowers to accomplish His will. But then it says that Christ may dwell in our hearts. That is because when Christ ascended into heaven after He died and rose again, He went to get glorified by the Father. That means that the Son was going to have His own glory (Holy Spirit) and be able to indwell, communicate, direct, speak through, and empower to accomplish His will. Since the Son is filled with the Father's Holy Spirit, the Son's portal to us is also the Father's, and the Son's will is the Father's will (Christ is the image of the invisible God). We are then filled with the Holy Spirit (portal) for both the Father and Son. We then become part of the body of Christ and adopted children of the Father and in His Family. We become One with the Father and Son and share in the same love they share when they both get access to us through the Holy Spirit. The riches of His glory includes having direct access to the Father and Son, being directed by them, and sharing in their divine love for God and man (being rooted and grounded in love). It is this love in us through the Holy Spirit that makes us understand the love of Christ for the Father and for us by His sacrifice on the cross, as well as the love of the Father for us to have the Son He loves go through such an ordeal. We get filled with all the goodness of God when through His Holy Spirit in you, you get knowledge, direction, understanding, and love.
The word "glory" has at least two meanings when reading the Bible. One is " worthy of praise" or, wallowing in the joy and honor of one's own success. An example is Psalm 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork. Another meaning is the spirit (angel) of the Father's presence. A portal which He indwells beings with and through which He interacts to direct, empower, speak through, and inform the being indwelt.
Isaiah 63: 9-10 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them; and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bore them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed His Holy Spirit; therefore, He was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
In this scripture Isaiah is stating that the Holy Spirit is the angel of God's (the Father's) presence. Where His Holy Spirit is, the Father is. The Father speaks, communicates, empowers, and gives authority through His Holy Spirit.
Jesus states that the words He spoke were not His words but the words of He who sent Him (the Father). After Jesus died and then rose again, He told His apostles to wait in Jerusalem because He was going to the Father to get glorified and then He was going to send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit of the Father). When Jesus went back to get glorified, He was given a spiritual body full of the Holy Spirit of the Father so that both the Father and Son would be able to communicate, speak through, empower, and give knowledge to those that the Father chooses. All that are in heaven are there in the Father's name. That means that they are baptized in the name of the Father and are sealed with His Holy Spirit. It is the Father who gives Christ all that He has, including the title of God, the power of God, His spiritual body (made up of born again believers in the truth) , His righteousness, and the love that they share.
There is only one baptism, and that is the baptism in the name of the Father (being predetermined, predestined, chosen, elected, or written in the Book of Life before the world was). The baptism in the name of the Son will be sure to follow through the preaching about forgiveness of sins through Jesus, who will then baptize in the name of the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son (the angel of their presence) to create a new being (John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of God.)
Both the Father and Son communicate with and fill the hearts of the recipients with the same divine Love that they share so that the recipients would be perfected by obeying the Spirit of the Law which is to love God first with all your heart, mind, and soul , and second, to love everyone else as you love yourself. Sharing the Holy Spirit of the Father makes both Jesus and us one with the Father.
REPLY
REPORT
Isaiah 63: 9-10 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them; and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bore them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed His Holy Spirit; therefore, He was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
In this scripture Isaiah is stating that the Holy Spirit is the angel of God's (the Father's) presence. Where His Holy Spirit is, the Father is. The Father speaks, communicates, empowers, and gives authority through His Holy Spirit.
Jesus states that the words He spoke were not His words but the words of He who sent Him (the Father). After Jesus died and then rose again, He told His apostles to wait in Jerusalem because He was going to the Father to get glorified and then He was going to send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit of the Father). When Jesus went back to get glorified, He was given a spiritual body full of the Holy Spirit of the Father so that both the Father and Son would be able to communicate, speak through, empower, and give knowledge to those that the Father chooses. All that are in heaven are there in the Father's name. That means that they are baptized in the name of the Father and are sealed with His Holy Spirit. It is the Father who gives Christ all that He has, including the title of God, the power of God, His spiritual body (made up of born again believers in the truth) , His righteousness, and the love that they share.
There is only one baptism, and that is the baptism in the name of the Father (being predetermined, predestined, chosen, elected, or written in the Book of Life before the world was). The baptism in the name of the Son will be sure to follow through the preaching about forgiveness of sins through Jesus, who will then baptize in the name of the Holy Spirit of the Father and Son (the angel of their presence) to create a new being (John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of God.)
Both the Father and Son communicate with and fill the hearts of the recipients with the same divine Love that they share so that the recipients would be perfected by obeying the Spirit of the Law which is to love God first with all your heart, mind, and soul , and second, to love everyone else as you love yourself. Sharing the Holy Spirit of the Father makes both Jesus and us one with the Father.
REPLY
REPORT
Hebrews 6: 1-6 Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not, laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
This verse clearly suggests that if a person reverts back to his old self of sin, He was never really saved. Anyone who says otherwise isn't really saved because they don't really know what it is to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to have the Father and Son reside in them.
This verse clearly suggests that if a person reverts back to his old self of sin, He was never really saved. Anyone who says otherwise isn't really saved because they don't really know what it is to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to have the Father and Son reside in them.
This is quite unfortunate. You interpret the passage as a reference to Christ's pre-existence, and then (again) to His birth at Bethlehem. However, neither of those interpretations are accurate.
Paul actually tells the reader how Ps. 2:7 is fulfilled (Acts 13:30-33), and doesn't apply either understandings which you have presupposed. Paul uses Ps. 2:7 as a reference to the resurrection and exaltation of the Lord Jesus, which is the very theme of Hebrews 1.
The Book of Hebrews is rife with messianic references. The epistle’s very first sentence (Hebrews 1:1-2) is an allusion to Psalm 2: the Son who is heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1-2) corresponds to Ps. 2:7-8 (“You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth as Your possession”).
In 1:3 (“When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high”) we have reference to probably one of the more classic messianic texts, Ps. 110:1 (“The Lord says to my Lord: ‘Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet’”). According to 1:3, Psalm 110:1 reaches its climax: “When He had made purification of sins… .” (cf. Romans 1:4).
This same theme is continued in Hebrews 1:5 (“For to which of the angels did He ever say, ‘YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU’? And again, ’I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME’?”), which is a combination of two classic messianic texts, Ps. 2:7 (“You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”) and 2 Samuel 7:14 (“I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me”). And in 1:6, “firstborn” is a Davidic allusion (Ps. 89:27) and corresponds with the “begotten” theme in 1:5. The reference to Ps. 2:7 in 1:5 is a citation from a coronation Psalm about the enthronement of the king (Ps. 2:7, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”). The NT interprets Ps. 2 in light of the resurrection and exaltation of the Lord Jesus (Acts 13:30-33, Hebrews 1:5, Hebrews 5:5). So it’s only natural to understand 1:6 (cf. Ps. 89:27) in light of 1:5 (cf. Ps. 2:7) – the two are thematically connected.
Hebrews 1:8-9 continues this theme, hence, its citation of Ps. 45 and the use of anointing language (cf. 1 Sam. 16:13).
The day the king took the throne is the moment in which he became God’s son (“begotten,” Ps. 2:7), that it was at that point that God adopted him into His family thereby making him a royal child, so to speak. In retrospect, it was at that moment that Christ was resurrected and ascended into heaven to sit at God’s right hand that He would actively rule as David’s representative, in the office of the “firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth.”
1 Corinthians 7:29 KJV
But this I say, brethren,
the time is short:…
This borrowed time we are living in
is not really ours to use as we please;
God is lending it to us because
He loves souls,
so you must feel an urgency to use it
(to the Glory of God)
to its fullest potential.
God's time is valuable,
and He is being so gracious
to lend it to us;
so we cannot use it
for things that do not profit His Kingdom.
But this I say, brethren,
the time is short:…
This borrowed time we are living in
is not really ours to use as we please;
God is lending it to us because
He loves souls,
so you must feel an urgency to use it
(to the Glory of God)
to its fullest potential.
God's time is valuable,
and He is being so gracious
to lend it to us;
so we cannot use it
for things that do not profit His Kingdom.
1 John 4: 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
The Son (Christ) is the only begotten son of the Father. Christ was already the only begotten son of the Father before He was sent.
Heb 1 :5-7 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again , I will be to him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? And again, when He bringeth in the first-begotteen into the world, He saith, " And let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels He saith , Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire.
Christ's existence emanated from the Father's mind from which all things exist. Christ is the first living spiritual being formed by the Father. That is why He is the Father's Son. Just like the Father, Christ has His own mind, heart, and soul. Because the Father's essence completely fills Christ's being, Christ, with His free will, chooses to love and obey Him. That is why He sits at the Father's right hand (to do the Father's will). The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence (His Holy Spirit). The Father and Son are One in that whatever the Father wants, the Son wants also. The Son's will might differ from the Father, but the Son gladly acquiesces to the will of the Father. When Christ became a man, the essence ( Holy Spirit) of God the Father, through which Mary's seed was fertilized, again resulted in Christ being born but this time as a human. The Father and Son relationship occurs a second time. Christ was already the first-begotten when he was brought into the world.
The Son (Christ) is the only begotten son of the Father. Christ was already the only begotten son of the Father before He was sent.
Heb 1 :5-7 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again , I will be to him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? And again, when He bringeth in the first-begotteen into the world, He saith, " And let all the angels of God worship Him. And of the angels He saith , Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire.
Christ's existence emanated from the Father's mind from which all things exist. Christ is the first living spiritual being formed by the Father. That is why He is the Father's Son. Just like the Father, Christ has His own mind, heart, and soul. Because the Father's essence completely fills Christ's being, Christ, with His free will, chooses to love and obey Him. That is why He sits at the Father's right hand (to do the Father's will). The Father communicates His will to the Son through His essence (His Holy Spirit). The Father and Son are One in that whatever the Father wants, the Son wants also. The Son's will might differ from the Father, but the Son gladly acquiesces to the will of the Father. When Christ became a man, the essence ( Holy Spirit) of God the Father, through which Mary's seed was fertilized, again resulted in Christ being born but this time as a human. The Father and Son relationship occurs a second time. Christ was already the first-begotten when he was brought into the world.
You have a multitude of issues here. None of the texts in Hebrews 1 are ever attributed to Christ's as a result of the incarnation. You need to stop and think:
- When the NT cites or alludes to Deut. 32 (cf. Heb. 1:6), how does it use it?
- When the NT cites or alludes to Ps. 104 (cf. Heb. 1:7), how does it use it?
- When the NT cites or alludes to Ps. 102 (cf. Heb. 1:10-12), how does it use it?
- When the NT cites or alludes to Ps. 110 (cf. Heb. 1:13), how does it use it?
- When the NT cites or alludes to Ps. 2:7 (cf. Heb. 1:5a), how does it use it?
- When the NT cites or alludes to 2 Sam. 7:14 (cf. Heb. 1:5b), how does it use it?
- What is the theme that ties each of these OT texts together?
Consider the use of the verb ἐθεμελίωσας ("founded"), which Heb. 1:10-12 uses when speaking of Christ's involvement in creation. Think to yourself:
- How many times in the OT is the term used? And which (if any) of those texts are referred to in the immediate context (Heb. 1-2)?
You will be amazed at your findings.
Might I suggest that the theme that ties each of these texts together are exaltation and judgement themes? In Heb. 1:6 it cites Deut. 32:43. In the backdrop of Deut. 32 is the theme of God's "right hand," highly exalted and lifted up.
This is precisely the theme found in Ps. 89:26-30, when it says,
And it is these themes which are weaved throughout the narrative of Hebrews, and are precisely what's on Paul's mind when he pens Heb. 1:6. Not to mention, Ps. 89 is also one of the few places ἐθεμελίωσας is used.
It's the background narrative of each OT account that needs to guide your interpretation of the text. It may also help to understand ancient Jewish traditions around those texts to better understand where Paul is coming from. Paul does not interpret these texts the way you are imposing onto them, and you need to ask yourself: Why?