Feminism?
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T
People have various ideas of who a feminist is, clouded by their own biases. Some women have also given a bad name for feminists based on the their behavior. What feminists have fought for has changed over time, such as equal access to education, owning property, voting rights, then equal pay, equal access to leadership positions in corporate and government spheres, protecting women from abuse, etc. These items are considered "feminist" but are not against the Bible, I believe. However, back in the day when these issues were "new," they were probably considered unBiblical. Many girls/women in third world countries still do not have the privileges mentioned above; there are fewer girls who attend schools in these countries and they are expected to get married before 20, or maybe even before 16. This is a form of injustice. I think it is one thing if a girl/woman voluntarily wants to get married young, be a stay at home wife, etc. However, if a girl is forced into this situation I think there is something unjust about this all. Yes, I think it is possible to be Christian and feminist, but not when the views/actions cross over into sin (one night stands, etc.).
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T
I found two different viewpoints on this issue. Who do you agree with?
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/voting.htm
https://www.relevantmagazine.com/faith/why-you-should-be-christian-feminist/
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/voting.htm
https://www.relevantmagazine.com/faith/why-you-should-be-christian-feminist/
Feminism is like a multi-social and political movement that wants to establish what one thinks is equality of the sexes. These ideologies might be economic equality or political equality or equality of social status. Feminist feel that a man's point of view or his social status is perceived as having more value than a women's and that the woman is subjugated to a lesser value for no other reason than her sex.
It's a tricky subject because most men and women pretty much agree with the concept of equality, but it's fairly impossible to truly engage it. For instance one big disagreement is women's pay compared to men's. Men can be shown to make more money in the work place overall, but there's jobs that men typically do that are more dangerous or require a lot of strength. There's few women brick layers or iron workers on high rises for instance and those jobs will pay more than jobs that are overwhelmingly female like administrative work. Of course, I'm also sure there's nobody arguing the equality of the overwhelming numbers of males in prison. I'm pretty sure women wouldn't want to share that statistic.
Politically both sexes run for office here in USA, but that doesn't mean there's equality of winning nor should there be. That doesn't stop people from using identity politics where the flavor of the hour is employed, but that's politics. So, again the feminism equality. is a tricky and unreliable subject.
Social status is (let's face it) economic. Most law firms for instance have mostly male partners. The funny thing is that women excel at law and a lot reach their partner status at a young age, but these same women realize pretty early on that having a family is a priority in their life. Putting in the time and dedication that a partnership requires is not the direction they want to go. They'd rather raise kids and have a more dedicated life to them. Not every women feels this way, but enough to skew the overall feminine statistic of equality.
Most women are probably "passive" followers of the feminist movement. I like to call them feminist in a feminine way. They incorporate the strengths they naturally have as women instead of taking on an unnatural man-like strength. These women use good character, have sound decision making abilities, negotiate well and remain strong without resorting to the same tactics a man would use. That is real difficult because women don't have much experience with this. But - they're catching on!
None of us have much experience with this. A few women think acting like a man - even dressing like a man - is the real feminist. In other words, you have to be masculine to be a true feminine, if that makes any sense. We still don't know the rules because nobody knows how to really act and the rules haven't been made up yet. Even women feeling sexually uncomfortable in the work place is "tricky" because no one has really defined it. On the other hand, women wear lipstick and eye make up. It could be argued that make up is used for no other purpose than to make a woman look desirable. Is that fair to think that? A woman might think it's used that way because it's a socially acceptable but a man might feel uncomfortably aroused around a woman with make up and attractive attire. Woman have a lot more choices in dress than men have. It's all just real sketchy and we're feeling our way around in the dark right now. But it's getting better, I think. Hope this explains the complexity of it all
It's a tricky subject because most men and women pretty much agree with the concept of equality, but it's fairly impossible to truly engage it. For instance one big disagreement is women's pay compared to men's. Men can be shown to make more money in the work place overall, but there's jobs that men typically do that are more dangerous or require a lot of strength. There's few women brick layers or iron workers on high rises for instance and those jobs will pay more than jobs that are overwhelmingly female like administrative work. Of course, I'm also sure there's nobody arguing the equality of the overwhelming numbers of males in prison. I'm pretty sure women wouldn't want to share that statistic.
Politically both sexes run for office here in USA, but that doesn't mean there's equality of winning nor should there be. That doesn't stop people from using identity politics where the flavor of the hour is employed, but that's politics. So, again the feminism equality. is a tricky and unreliable subject.
Social status is (let's face it) economic. Most law firms for instance have mostly male partners. The funny thing is that women excel at law and a lot reach their partner status at a young age, but these same women realize pretty early on that having a family is a priority in their life. Putting in the time and dedication that a partnership requires is not the direction they want to go. They'd rather raise kids and have a more dedicated life to them. Not every women feels this way, but enough to skew the overall feminine statistic of equality.
Most women are probably "passive" followers of the feminist movement. I like to call them feminist in a feminine way. They incorporate the strengths they naturally have as women instead of taking on an unnatural man-like strength. These women use good character, have sound decision making abilities, negotiate well and remain strong without resorting to the same tactics a man would use. That is real difficult because women don't have much experience with this. But - they're catching on!
None of us have much experience with this. A few women think acting like a man - even dressing like a man - is the real feminist. In other words, you have to be masculine to be a true feminine, if that makes any sense. We still don't know the rules because nobody knows how to really act and the rules haven't been made up yet. Even women feeling sexually uncomfortable in the work place is "tricky" because no one has really defined it. On the other hand, women wear lipstick and eye make up. It could be argued that make up is used for no other purpose than to make a woman look desirable. Is that fair to think that? A woman might think it's used that way because it's a socially acceptable but a man might feel uncomfortably aroused around a woman with make up and attractive attire. Woman have a lot more choices in dress than men have. It's all just real sketchy and we're feeling our way around in the dark right now. But it's getting better, I think. Hope this explains the complexity of it all
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Down here in the south, where gentlemen treat ladies like ladies, feminists come out on the losing end of the deal. When a woman thinks it is offensive for a man to hold a door open for her or give her his seat at a crowded venue... the feminist loses out on what makes southern life good.
Feminism is like many other things - good in moderation, terrible in extreme.
Quote from a cartoon:
"So did they break through the glass ceiling?"
"I dunno, but it does feel like there are shards of glass all over the floor."
Feminism is like many other things - good in moderation, terrible in extreme.
Quote from a cartoon:
"So did they break through the glass ceiling?"
"I dunno, but it does feel like there are shards of glass all over the floor."
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Feminism is also trendy right now, and very politically correct. You will not see any major movie where any man wins a fight, physical or verbal, with any woman. It's just not done. Why, if any screenwriter made such an egregious error... everybody would be all over that movie complaining about male chauvinism. (I know they call it something else these days, but I'm an old soul.)
This results in a lot of frankly ludicrous plot holes as they try to make plots without offending anybody.
This results in a lot of frankly ludicrous plot holes as they try to make plots without offending anybody.
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J
Sometimes I’m wondering... I have never heard of a lady thinking that a man holding the door for her is offensive. I’ve read about it, but I’ve never heard of no lady actually holding that opinion.😁
I think it’s so sweet when a man is holding the door for me.🤗 Sometimes it makes me blush and I can’t hold back a smile. It really makes my day.
So all y’all gentlemen, keep holding the door for the ladies and give us a smile while you’re at it.😀
I think it’s so sweet when a man is holding the door for me.🤗 Sometimes it makes me blush and I can’t hold back a smile. It really makes my day.
So all y’all gentlemen, keep holding the door for the ladies and give us a smile while you’re at it.😀
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There are some elements of classical feminism, identified by TheIndianGirl above, that are valid and worthwhile. These are are expressions of genuine equality and are consistent with a biblical view of men and women.
We need to be cautious with the terminology though; just as "gay" formerly meant "happy" or "pleasant", and now is more commonly used in reference to homosexuality, "feminism" has become deeply corrupted with some very unbiblical ideas.
Feminism today is a gross caricature of a striving for equality. Feminists want equality of outcome where it benefits women (the oxymoron is not accidental), not merely equality of opportunity. They cite long-debunked stats like the "gender pay gap" with no critical thought. They demand "equal" access to education, employment, leadership, and political position, but have been strangely quiet about seeking equality for criminal sentencing, hard-labour jobs, divorce/child custody outcomes, or, frankly, who pays for dinner on a date.
Rather than trying to identify with the few biblically-consistent roots of feminism and eschew the overwhelming unbiblical associations, just toss the whole concept. Instead, uphold the equality of worth of men and women as a Christian value, and treat individuals on their own merits, not the merits of their gender (or, for that matter, any other general characteristic).
We need to be cautious with the terminology though; just as "gay" formerly meant "happy" or "pleasant", and now is more commonly used in reference to homosexuality, "feminism" has become deeply corrupted with some very unbiblical ideas.
Feminism today is a gross caricature of a striving for equality. Feminists want equality of outcome where it benefits women (the oxymoron is not accidental), not merely equality of opportunity. They cite long-debunked stats like the "gender pay gap" with no critical thought. They demand "equal" access to education, employment, leadership, and political position, but have been strangely quiet about seeking equality for criminal sentencing, hard-labour jobs, divorce/child custody outcomes, or, frankly, who pays for dinner on a date.
Rather than trying to identify with the few biblically-consistent roots of feminism and eschew the overwhelming unbiblical associations, just toss the whole concept. Instead, uphold the equality of worth of men and women as a Christian value, and treat individuals on their own merits, not the merits of their gender (or, for that matter, any other general characteristic).
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It's become an almost meaningless term which depending on who is hearing it and using it can mean anything from "someone who supports women's rights" to "women being too demanding and confrontational while playing the victim card".
What society ideally would do is recognize and value women and their strengths as different from but just as necessary as men and their strengths. But instead of a nice collaborative environment for the most part we've got a very competitive one where it seems women want to prove their worth by being better men than the men (and some would argue demanding the men act more like women as well so that women don't feel so out of place in a man's world). Where we've ended up after a whole lot of women's rights stuff is women now have the option to not be financially or economically dependent on a man which has been good for women in relationships with bad men, but bad for families overall as splitting up has become so easy we do it over any little thing. In the worst instances this has given the opportunity for women of lesser character and greater selfishness to inflict more injustices on men. Ultimately it seems like one of the equal rights we've acheived is for women to treat men as poorly as men have treated women in the past (and I know I have to remind myself that it wasn't all that distant of a past and that men with large amounts of money, power, or influence still often think the rules of civil behavior toward women (well usually most rules on anything) don't apply to them).
Guess you just can't legislate the sinful nature out of people.
What society ideally would do is recognize and value women and their strengths as different from but just as necessary as men and their strengths. But instead of a nice collaborative environment for the most part we've got a very competitive one where it seems women want to prove their worth by being better men than the men (and some would argue demanding the men act more like women as well so that women don't feel so out of place in a man's world). Where we've ended up after a whole lot of women's rights stuff is women now have the option to not be financially or economically dependent on a man which has been good for women in relationships with bad men, but bad for families overall as splitting up has become so easy we do it over any little thing. In the worst instances this has given the opportunity for women of lesser character and greater selfishness to inflict more injustices on men. Ultimately it seems like one of the equal rights we've acheived is for women to treat men as poorly as men have treated women in the past (and I know I have to remind myself that it wasn't all that distant of a past and that men with large amounts of money, power, or influence still often think the rules of civil behavior toward women (well usually most rules on anything) don't apply to them).
Guess you just can't legislate the sinful nature out of people.
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Adam vs Eve under the curse was in Bible all along before Jesus made peace between the sexes.
Genesis 3:15
Though not so much against men per se, but HER enemy, i.e Satan. Satan has always hated women more so than men as he went to Eve first. She was placed under a curse by having her husband rule over her.
Genesis 3:15
Though not so much against men per se, but HER enemy, i.e Satan. Satan has always hated women more so than men as he went to Eve first. She was placed under a curse by having her husband rule over her.
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I am pro Wan therefore I am atni-feminist.
Some will argue it is a pro woman's group. Or an equality group.. It's not. Some will argue that was what the original intention of the group was, but even if that were true (and that's a big if) that's not what it is now.
Feminism has become anti male. While at the same time proving they're just as good, if not better than men, by acting like men. That they're against. Confusing eh?
It is also the source of the attempted removal of masculinity from modern culture. It is very liberal and thus pro abortion and pro homosexuality. New Age is the commonly held religious belief.
Some will argue it is a pro woman's group. Or an equality group.. It's not. Some will argue that was what the original intention of the group was, but even if that were true (and that's a big if) that's not what it is now.
Feminism has become anti male. While at the same time proving they're just as good, if not better than men, by acting like men. That they're against. Confusing eh?
It is also the source of the attempted removal of masculinity from modern culture. It is very liberal and thus pro abortion and pro homosexuality. New Age is the commonly held religious belief.
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T
Many/most women are feminists (believe in voting rights, equal access to education/careers, equal pay, etc.) but would not call themselves feminists due to the negative stereotype/connotation of that word. I agree with an above post that most women are passive feminists. The feminists who hate men are in the minority. Most feminists like men and don't mind if men are being nice to them by opening doors, giving up the seat, showing greater physical strength, etc. I do think people should be judged based on merit, so if a woman cannot perform certain jobs primarily those requiring physical strength she should not be hired. Why women do not self identify as feminists is because most men view feminists as man-haters. Feminists do not like certain aspects typically attributed towards masculinity such as aggression and sexism. Most feminists would not marry/want their sons to grow to be Marlon Brando/Gaston(Beauty and the Beast)/Biff (Back to the Future), however are fine with nice masculine men (going by movie representations, Cary Grant/Robin Williams/Chadwick Boseman).
I remmeber Joanna Lumley appeared on the tv show top gear.
Not something I choose to watch (it was on at the time, maybe my brothers were watching it) its about cars.
Anyway she was saying she didnt understand or like it when men opened doors for her as she could easily open them herself. I think she was meaning car doors.
Im used to driving my own car, but if Im a passenger and a man is driving I dont think I expect him to open the door for me. That would be a hassle, unless he was really precious about his car and didnt want me to touch it.
I have driven men around too, Id rather be safe and sober than have anyone driving round drunk for example.
Not something I choose to watch (it was on at the time, maybe my brothers were watching it) its about cars.
Anyway she was saying she didnt understand or like it when men opened doors for her as she could easily open them herself. I think she was meaning car doors.
Im used to driving my own car, but if Im a passenger and a man is driving I dont think I expect him to open the door for me. That would be a hassle, unless he was really precious about his car and didnt want me to touch it.
I have driven men around too, Id rather be safe and sober than have anyone driving round drunk for example.
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K
Sorry, peeped in to see how people felt about feminism. I recall my father saying several years ago that he opened a door for a "lady" while going into a store. She gave him a dirty look and said "I can open my own door". Personally I'd have pushed past her and let the door fly. smh
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