Evangelicals the most unfavorable religion

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Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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#21
Oddly enough, Lutherans were at one time also considered evangelical. And are also not on the list.
When I was a teen, in the 70’s, and my mother took us to the Pentecostals, I didn’t know what the agenda was but they taught us a new song…..”I don’t care what church you belong to”
And two Nuns attended in their costumes for the occasion,
And in those years, they had that convention in Canberra with a representative from every religion, trying to show unity amongst every faith.
We also partook in a massive “christian“ demonstration rally through Adelaide city centre with every denomination marching. My sister and I even made our own little home made banner.
Next thing I heard was “catholic charismatics” had started.

But I only see one doctrine in scripture.

2 John 1:9 KJV
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
 

Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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#24
I always find that ironic. They will quote "the golden rule" when it comes to how they want to me treated.
Unfortunate but true. Living out a life of faith is a much more powerful witness than words to unbelievers.
In John 5:19 Jesus says He always did what He saw the Father doing. This is much different than always evangelizing. God isn't always stirring the hearts of those around us. So many are busy when God is still.
This is at least in good part due to the lack of real and vital and intimate relationship lacking in so many Christians. We profess to be led by the Spirit but we know little of true spirituality.
Even the children of Israel in the desert had the good sense to remain in place until the pillar of smoke and fire moved. Probably alot more wood, hay, and stubble being collected than gold, silver, and precious stone.
Sometimes it’s a case of bearing reproach of other “Christians”
 

Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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#25
I took a picture of that bumper sticker.

View attachment 249516
We see some ungodly number plates too.
But as Cameron said, and I heard in the ministry on Thursday, the life of Christ needs to be seen in us.
1 Corinthians 15:31 KJV
…. I die daily.
Did we repent this morning, to do the Fathers will only.
Matthew 16:24 KJV
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
 

Underwhosewings

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Jan 19, 2023
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#26
What do you think we should do about these two main areas, abortion and same-sex relationships, that seem to draw the most disrespect?

God is very clear about His stance on them and He's destroyed whole cities because of them.

I can see where this is going.....
Do what Noah did, keep building the saving vessel, the House of God.
Focus on showing forth Christ,
God will judge them in His time.

Isaiah 28:13,21-23 KJV
But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
[21] For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
[22] Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
[23] Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
 

IsaiahA

Active member
Jan 24, 2023
114
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28
#27
What do you think we should do about these two main areas, abortion and same-sex relationships, that seem to draw the most disrespect?

God is very clear about His stance on them and He's destroyed whole cities because of them.

I can see where this is going.....
You asked, so I'll tell you my views as well as how I perceive the world viewing the evangelicals on these two hot button topics.

About abortion, the civil laws have no business forcing a theological view of some, onto others who hold to a different theological view of when a human being starts existence. So, in line with older views and the earlier translations, I'd make civil law against abortion begin at 15-20 weeks, NOT earlier. I base that on such statements as by 19th century Adam Clarke on Exodus 21:22 -

"But if mischief followed, that is, if the child had been fully formed, and was killed by this means, or the woman lost her life in consequence, then the punishment was as in other cases of murder-the person was put to death; Ex 21:23."

This is in line with Exodus 21:22, 23 as translated in the LXX as used by Jesus and the Apostles -

"And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman's husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life," (Exod 21:22-23, LXXE)

Historically, v22 has been understood as "miscarriage" and that is how the 1977 NASB translated it, but when fundamentalist modernists saw that hurt their anti-abortion ideas, the later NASB translations switched to some form of premature birth. It is so obvious to translate to support your already held belief.

The evangelicals can stop pretending they hold the ONLY biblical view on the topic. Even our founding fathers, such as James Wilson, saw that a fetus gains legal status at viability, not conception.

Intelligent people of the world can see the difference between the sodomitic behavior condemned in the scriptures and a simple case of same sex relationships. The sexual sin of Sodom was attempted rape and the destruction of Sodom was described by God in the following:

"As I live, saith the Lord, this Sodom and her daughters have not done as thou and thy daughters have done. Moreover this was the sin of thy sister Sodom, pride: she and her daughters lived in pleasure, in fullness of bread and in abundance: this belonged to her and her daughters, and they helped not the hand of the poor and needy. And they boasted, and wrought iniquities before me: so I cut them off as I saw fit." (Ezek 16:48-50, LXXE)
(again from the translation used by Jesus and the apostles)

On 1 Cor. 6:9, the 2021 NRSV Updated Edition put explanatory notes on the two questionable words in the Greek writing:

a "male prostitutes" 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain
b "men who engage in illicit sex" 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain

You can read various translations and it is clear that there is NO consensus on what the words mean for certain and it has been true back in history, not just today.

Christians can disagree on such matters as abortion and same-sex relationships, but when the world sees the nasty, hate-filled dogmatism of the evangelicals, they reject it, as is quite understandable. If you do not think the evangelicals come across as nasty and hating, just read evangelical's statements you find online. Evasions such as "love the sinner but hate the sin" is such an obvious cover for hate toward persons, and it is received as such.

My view is, on abortion, a cut off point of 15-20 weeks is legitimate in civil law, as it was at the founding of America. On the topic of same-sex conduct, laws about abuse and sodomy should be the only concern of civil law. If some Christians don't like same-sex relationships and abortion before 15 weeks, then those Christians should certainly not engage in it for it would violate their own conscience. But you get a rebellion from the world trying to force your conscience onto the public at large by civil law. It is amazing how so many Baptists who were historically known by their insistence on separation of church and state, are now so strong in wanting government to regulate consciences. By the way, marriage is ONLY between man and woman, period! It may be, the evangelical nastiness lost them such credibility at the start on matters of same-sex relationships, they had no influence on the matters of who qualifies as marriage partners.

It is easy to go to https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng.html and read through over 100 commentaries from the past and some modern. You'll find that there has NOT been agreement among Christians on these topics over the years and to pretend that evangelicals today have the only true understanding is untrue.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,912
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#28
They certainly are. Just yesterday, I saw a bumper sticker on a car that read, "I don't care what the Bible says." :(
Heh, they care enough about what the Bible says to broadly advertise the fact that they wish to ignore what the Bible says. .:giggle:
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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#29
I get the impression from those outside the faith, that they do not disrespect evangelicals for the gospel, the teaching of that Jesus Christ is truly God, and the only atonement is through the death of Jesus Christ. I believe Paul and Peter have given us the description of the real problem.

"What business of mine is it to judge outsiders? God is their judge. But within the fellowship, you are the judges: ‘Root out the wrongdoer from your community.’" (1Cor 5:12-13 REB)

"Be wise in your dealings with outsiders, but use your opportunities to the full. Let your words always be gracious, never insipid; learn how best to respond to each person you meet." (Col 4:5-6 REB)

He [the leader, pastor, bishop] must moreover have a good reputation with the outside world, so that he may not be exposed to scandal and be caught in the devil’s snare. (1Tim 3:7 REB)

"Let it be your ambition to live quietly and attend to your own business; and to work with your hands, as we told you, so that you may command the respect of those outside your own number, and at the same time never be in want." (1Thess 4:11-12 REB)

"If you are reviled for being Christians, count yourselves happy, because the Spirit of God in all his glory rests upon you. If you do suffer, it must not be for murder, theft, or any other crime, nor should it be for meddling in other people’s business. But if anyone suffers as a Christian, he should feel it no disgrace, but confess that name to the honour of God." (1Pet 4:14-16 REB)

The two main areas that seem to draw the most disrespect, are abortion and same-sex relationships. These are two topics that vary greatly in the Bible translations of the pertinent verses, and complete agreement among the assembly of Christ through the centuries is absent. It is little wonder that evangelicals are considered "haters" and it doesn't take long on the Internet to see it. Yes, yes, the depraved and leftists are haters too, but Christians are to be better.

Evangelicals come across more like the Pharisees of Christ's day, who attack others who reject their idea of religion and sin.[
/QUOTE]



I was with you till here. So what response in your opinion should evangelicals take so they are more likable with the world?
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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#30
So many little groups doing their own thing here, (I suppose you have to start somewhere.)
And some of them,
Instead of preaching the love of God, they yell about hell fire.

If you believed in "hell fire" wouldn't you want to warn your loved ones and friends, at least? If I saw someone I didn't like house on fire, I would still let them know! smh Yes God is love, but also judgement. The time is short and if you believe that, you'd tell a whole lot more people about the wages of sin.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#32
Or, is this evidence of a poor witness of evangelicals for Christ?

It is this one.^^^^^


And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

This statement by Jesus is time specific and relates to the tribulation they would endure in the tribulation which was in 70 AD.
Jesus was speaking about being saved physically not spiritually.
The Jewish leaders/zealots did not like the message of His followers it undermined their authority and agenda.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

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Jan 17, 2023
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#33
When I was a teen, in the 70’s, and my mother took us to the Pentecostals, I didn’t know what the agenda was but they taught us a new song…..”I don’t care what church you belong to”
And two Nuns attended in their costumes for the occasion,
And in those years, they had that convention in Canberra with a representative from every religion, trying to show unity amongst every faith.
We also partook in a massive “christian“ demonstration rally through Adelaide city centre with every denomination marching. My sister and I even made our own little home made banner.
Next thing I heard was “catholic charismatics” had started.

But I only see one doctrine in scripture.

2 John 1:9 KJV
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

There are an estimated 619 million evangelicals in the world, meaning that one in four Christians would be classified as evangelical. American evangelicals are a quarter of that nation's population and its single largest religious group. evangelicals can be found in nearly every Protestant denomination and tradition, particularly within the Calvinist (Continental Reformed, Presbyterian, Congregational), Arminian, Plymouth Brethren, Baptist, Methodist (Wesleyan, Holiness), Lutheran, Moravian, Free Church, Mennonite, Quaker, Pentecostal, Charismatic, and non-denominational churches.


That is a large swath of people of faith. Let's not make blanket statements about brothers and sisters in the Lord. They definitely abide in the doctrine of Christ. I'm not sure what church you attend, but you have been misinformed about evangelicals.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#34
About abortion, the civil laws have no business forcing a theological view of some, onto others who hold to a different theological view of when a human being starts existence. So, in line with older views and the earlier translations, I'd make civil law against abortion begin at 15-20 weeks, NOT earlier. I base that on such statements as by 19th century Adam Clarke on Exodus 21:22 -
Adam Clarke did not have the benefit of modern day science.

Human life begins at conception.

Which is the day/hour/minute/second in 15-20 weeks, that the pre-born baby has a right to life?

When a human life starts is not a theological argument it is a scientific/philosophical argument
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#35
You asked, so I'll tell you my views as well as how I perceive the world viewing the evangelicals on these two hot button topics.

About abortion, the civil laws have no business forcing a theological view of some, onto others who hold to a different theological view of when a human being starts existence. So, in line with older views and the earlier translations, I'd make civil law against abortion begin at 15-20 weeks, NOT earlier. I base that on such statements as by 19th century Adam Clarke on Exodus 21:22 -

"But if mischief followed, that is, if the child had been fully formed, and was killed by this means, or the woman lost her life in consequence, then the punishment was as in other cases of murder-the person was put to death; Ex 21:23."

This is in line with Exodus 21:22, 23 as translated in the LXX as used by Jesus and the Apostles -

"And if two men strive and smite a woman with child, and her child be born imperfectly formed, he shall be forced to pay a penalty: as the woman's husband may lay upon him, he shall pay with a valuation. But if it be perfectly formed, he shall give life for life," (Exod 21:22-23, LXXE)

Historically, v22 has been understood as "miscarriage" and that is how the 1977 NASB translated it, but when fundamentalist modernists saw that hurt their anti-abortion ideas, the later NASB translations switched to some form of premature birth. It is so obvious to translate to support your already held belief.

The evangelicals can stop pretending they hold the ONLY biblical view on the topic. Even our founding fathers, such as James Wilson, saw that a fetus gains legal status at viability, not conception.

Intelligent people of the world can see the difference between the sodomitic behavior condemned in the scriptures and a simple case of same sex relationships. The sexual sin of Sodom was attempted rape and the destruction of Sodom was described by God in the following:

"As I live, saith the Lord, this Sodom and her daughters have not done as thou and thy daughters have done. Moreover this was the sin of thy sister Sodom, pride: she and her daughters lived in pleasure, in fullness of bread and in abundance: this belonged to her and her daughters, and they helped not the hand of the poor and needy. And they boasted, and wrought iniquities before me: so I cut them off as I saw fit." (Ezek 16:48-50, LXXE)
(again from the translation used by Jesus and the apostles)

On 1 Cor. 6:9, the 2021 NRSV Updated Edition put explanatory notes on the two questionable words in the Greek writing:

a "male prostitutes" 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain
b "men who engage in illicit sex" 6.9 Meaning of Gk uncertain

You can read various translations and it is clear that there is NO consensus on what the words mean for certain and it has been true back in history, not just today.

Christians can disagree on such matters as abortion and same-sex relationships, but when the world sees the nasty, hate-filled dogmatism of the evangelicals, they reject it, as is quite understandable. If you do not think the evangelicals come across as nasty and hating, just read evangelical's statements you find online. Evasions such as "love the sinner but hate the sin" is such an obvious cover for hate toward persons, and it is received as such.

My view is, on abortion, a cut off point of 15-20 weeks is legitimate in civil law, as it was at the founding of America. On the topic of same-sex conduct, laws about abuse and sodomy should be the only concern of civil law. If some Christians don't like same-sex relationships and abortion before 15 weeks, then those Christians should certainly not engage in it for it would violate their own conscience. But you get a rebellion from the world trying to force your conscience onto the public at large by civil law. It is amazing how so many Baptists who were historically known by their insistence on separation of church and state, are now so strong in wanting government to regulate consciences. By the way, marriage is ONLY between man and woman, period! It may be, the evangelical nastiness lost them such credibility at the start on matters of same-sex relationships, they had no influence on the matters of who qualifies as marriage partners.

It is easy to go to https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng.html and read through over 100 commentaries from the past and some modern. You'll find that there has NOT been agreement among Christians on these topics over the years and to pretend that evangelicals today have the only true understanding is untrue.
The biblical conception of life is conception. And because life isn't random but is a deliberate act of God, anyone who purposely and deliberately ends that life is guilty of destroying the image of God.
As far as Sodom goes, those people were given over to their sin and so had reached the point of judgment. But all people who practice homosexuality are in danger of God giving them over to the same point. The offense here is the corruption of the creation ordinance of one man with one woman to bear offspring and fill the earth. All homosexual behavior is sin.
As far as legislating morality, there is no need. There is no law against morality. You can practice moral behavior without offense. We do, however, need to legislate immorality. And as you have pointed out, the Bible is full of such restrictions.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#36
I get the impression from those outside the faith, that they do not disrespect evangelicals for the gospel, the teaching of that Jesus Christ is truly God, and the only atonement is through the death of Jesus Christ. I believe Paul and Peter have given us the description of the real problem.

"What business of mine is it to judge outsiders? God is their judge. But within the fellowship, you are the judges: ‘Root out the wrongdoer from your community.’" (1Cor 5:12-13 REB)

"Be wise in your dealings with outsiders, but use your opportunities to the full. Let your words always be gracious, never insipid; learn how best to respond to each person you meet." (Col 4:5-6 REB)

He [the leader, pastor, bishop] must moreover have a good reputation with the outside world, so that he may not be exposed to scandal and be caught in the devil’s snare. (1Tim 3:7 REB)

"Let it be your ambition to live quietly and attend to your own business; and to work with your hands, as we told you, so that you may command the respect of those outside your own number, and at the same time never be in want." (1Thess 4:11-12 REB)

"If you are reviled for being Christians, count yourselves happy, because the Spirit of God in all his glory rests upon you. If you do suffer, it must not be for murder, theft, or any other crime, nor should it be for meddling in other people’s business. But if anyone suffers as a Christian, he should feel it no disgrace, but confess that name to the honour of God." (1Pet 4:14-16 REB)

The two main areas that seem to draw the most disrespect, are abortion and same-sex relationships. These are two topics that vary greatly in the Bible translations of the pertinent verses, and complete agreement among the assembly of Christ through the centuries is absent. It is little wonder that evangelicals are considered "haters" and it doesn't take long on the Internet to see it. Yes, yes, the depraved and leftists are haters too, but Christians are to be better.

Evangelicals come across more like the Pharisees of Christ's day, who attack others who reject their idea of religion and sin.
complete agreement among the assembly of Christ through the centuries is absent.
Proof of the this statement? All we need is scripture and scripture is clear.


So the secular world seeks to self destruct via abortion and same-sex relationships and the church retreats based on supposed misconception of being haters.


I think the Babylon Bee makes a good case on how those who revile Christians turn everything around to make us look bad.

And if you question them at all, you are pro-Nazi.
It's pretty genius marketing, actually. It's like naming a political group "Anti-Puppy-Murder" and then screaming at anyone who disagrees with you, "WHY DO YOU HATE PUPPIES!?"

Babylon Bee
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#37
The biblical conception of life is conception. And because life isn't random but is a deliberate act of God, anyone who purposely and deliberately ends that life is guilty of destroying the image of God.
Amen!
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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#38
My view is, on abortion, a cut off point of 15-20 weeks is legitimate in civil law, as it was at the founding of America.

And you think that will please the mob huh? I guess you don't see them fighting, hissing, screaming and tearing baby dolls apart because they can't have abortion whenever and however they want it. So you're saying that a baby in the womb is not alive until the moment of birth? That they feel no pain. You feel God has no issue with taking an innocent life? And you think this will appease the people and the poll with now make evangelicals likable if the compromise with the world just a little. Got it.




On the topic of same-sex conduct, laws about abuse and sodomy should be the only concern of civil law. If some Christians don't like same-sex relationships and abortion before 15 weeks, then those Christians should certainly not engage in it for it would violate their own conscience.
Wow, this whole POV is stunning to me. I see myself getting ignored again. smh I don't get how Christians can sit back and have the same opinion as the world. I consider abortion murder, period, end of the story. I and will not be silent to be liked by anyone. I believe God will forgive if a person repents but to say abortion is ok at any point in a pregnancy is wrong. America's greatest sin, we have blood on our hands if we do not stand and speak up against the murder of the helpless unborn. 60 million abortions, more than the population of Canada, Christians need to stand against such the same as those who stood against slavery and the Holocaust.



But you get a rebellion from the world trying to force your conscience onto the public at large by civil law. It is amazing how so many Baptists who were historically known by their insistence on separation of church and state, are now so strong in wanting government to regulate consciences.
Has nothing to do with conscience, Lord knows those pushing abortion don't have one. It has to with the silent holocaust of 60 million murdered unborn children. You wonder why the country is in the state it's in. Why would God ever bless America when she turns her head and winks against murder of the most innocent and helpless?


By the way, marriage is ONLY between man and woman, period! It may be, the evangelical nastiness lost them such credibility at the start on matters of same-sex relationships, they had no influence on the matters of who qualifies as marriage partners.
Actually the church has crept along with the world. If my great grandmother was alive today she'd die of shock at what the church has accepted and lowered their standards to. We started with same sex on tv with Ellen Degeneres, she was funny, likable, she didn't scream lesbian. And so Christians accepted her. We began to see it promoted more often then. As soon as the church lets down its standard, the world goes lower. Then every tv show had to have a gay member. And the church began to talk itself into acceptance to stay relevant. It's not such a bad sin, God understands. Now every commercial has a gay person in it. If you dare speak out or disagree with their lifestyle you are a bigot and shut down as a fool.

We moved from there to trans people. Well they were just confused and they needed support and acceptance. And now a trans man can walk into a womans bathroom or shower, even in schools. Now we have drag queens reading in libraries to underage children, look up a picture of that and see if it doesn't make you sick. And here we go, they want to surgeries on underage children convincing them they are not the sex they were born as. If that isn't child abuse I don't know what is. So, here's the deal, I don't care if I am liked by the polls taken by the world. They don't understand why we hold the standard up. They don't see the spiritual battle going on. If you want to be friends with the world, by all means, go do so. But somewhere you'll have to take a stand they don't like. I think it would be better if we were on God's side and worrying if we are pleasing Him, not the world.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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#39
Evangelicals come across more like the Pharisees of Christ's day, who attack others who reject their idea of religion and sin.
People have perceptions, are indoctrinated and propagandized ... so you have a rather simplistic analysis.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,436
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#40
Or, is this evidence of a poor witness of evangelicals for Christ?

John 15:18 If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before it hated you.

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

No, it is just that many so called Christians are really men pleasers and do not know the word of God.

We are not men pleasers, we are servants of Christ.