eternal security?

[der]

Why do men teach eternal security when the Bible speaks other wise. In Matthew 24.13 Jesus said, He that endures to the end, the same will be saved. Paul said in Ephesians 5.5,6 NO whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Paul also said in Romans 8.13 If you live after the flesh, you will die : but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you will leave. James 5.19,20 says, BRETHREN, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH(he must mean spiritual death here). And 1John 5.16 says If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not to death, he will ask, and he will give him life for them that sin not to death. THERE IS A SIN TO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHOULD PRAY FOR IT. So we see that eternal security(once saved, always saved) is false teaching according to the Bible the word of God. Like Jesus said we must endure to the end. May God bless you. Amen.

 

[Hoffco]

From God's view point all His elect chosen ones are secure in Christ. No one "in Christ" will be lost. From our view point we are as secure as we peruse God and Holiness of live as we trust Christ for salvation. We can be as secure as we feel secure. If I am walking the walk of faith. talking the talk of faith and living the life of Faith, I am secure. Eternal life is eternal, it can not end. If I have been given the gift of eternal life, I will never lost it. The subjectiveness of our assurance of faith is the thing that makes our salvation or assurance an iffy thing. Salvation is once and for all,but for us to know it is a subjective matter, it depends on our growth and experience of/in God's grace. "If you do these things, you will never fall". "add to your faith, virtue, brotherly kindness, love, etc. you will make you election and calling more sure" Love to all, Hoffco

 

[gb9]

here is the thing: anyone can make a mistake. anyone can get tripped up and fall into sin. but to turn your back on God and say " I don't care what you say, i'm doing whatever I want" this is not a mistake. this is willfull rebellion. if a person does this and never comes back to God, this person is lost.

 

[fellowsheep]

Let us don't take extreme here, God is a Father, you can read a balance article here: As a Father - Shepherd Serve

Blessings,

 

[john832]

here is the thing: anyone can make a mistake. anyone can get tripped up and fall into sin. but to turn your back on God and say " I don't care what you say, i'm doing whatever I want" this is not a mistake. this is willfull rebellion. if a person does this and never comes back to God, this person is lost.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

A deliberate choice, in full knowledge that results in eternal death.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Why do men teach eternal security when the Bible speaks other wise. In Matthew 24.13 Jesus said, He that endures to the end, the same will be saved. Paul said in Ephesians 5.5,6 NO whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Paul also said in Romans 8.13 If you live after the flesh, you will die : but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you will leave. James 5.19,20 says, BRETHREN, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH(he must mean spiritual death here). And 1John 5.16 says If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not to death, he will ask, and he will give him life for them that sin not to death. THERE IS A SIN TO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHOULD PRAY FOR IT. So we see that eternal security(once saved, always saved) is false teaching according to the Bible the word of God. Like Jesus said we must endure to the end. May God bless you. Amen.

Hi there Der,


Eternal Security is not a false teaching.


The Holy Bible does teach Eternal Security for the born again child of God (Eph. 1:13 and Eph. 4:30).


And that one particular passage which you quoted from Matthew 24:13 is not Doctrinally written to Christians.

Matthew 24:13 is Doctrinally pointed at Jews in the time of Jacob's trouble.

Whenever you are reading a passage in the Holy Bible. You always need to ask yourself these three questions:


1) Is this passage that I am reading addressed to me (Church Age Saint)? A Tribulation Saint? A Saint in the Millennial Kingdom? Or an Old Testament Saint?

2) Which Dispensation is this passage written Doctrinally for?

3) And what does this passage say and teach in the Context of which it appears?


To help illustrate a little of what I am sharing with you regarding Dispensational Truth in the Bible; here is a great Dispensational Chart/Timeline from Douglas D. Stauffer's book, One Book Rightly Divided.







You see Der; the Holy Bible teaches Eternal Security for the Church Age saint (Christian).


Knowing this though; it is also helpful to understand that while Eternal Security is available today, it was not though in the Old Testament. One could lose their salvation in the Old Testament.


One great example bearing witness to this truth is the prayer that David prayed in the following verse:



Psalm 51:11

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 Cast me not away from thy presence;
and take not thy holy spirit from me.



The Holy Spirit could be taken from an individual in the Old Testament.


Saul for example; out of the 40 years of him reigning as king over Israel, he was only anointed for 2 of those years.


What happened? Saul lost his salvation. That's what happened. He rejected the word of the LORD; and therefore the LORD rejected him from being king over Israel (1 Sam. 15:23, 26).


And therefore, the Holy Spirit was taken from Saul:




1 Samuel 16:14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.



Today; in the Church Age, the Holy Spirit permanently dwells in the believer. So every saved person in the Church Age is eternally secure. They cannot lose their salvation.



Ephesians 4:29-32

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

 

[der]

Sorry brother, but did you pay any attention to those scriptures I gave you. It seems like you completely ignored them, then tried to come up with some other scriptures to prove your belief. But sorry brother, you can't fool me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why?

1. It is based on the promise of God, Not on the weakness of our flesh
2. It is based on the work of God, not on the innefectiveness of our work
3. It is based on Gods character and Gods love, then on our flaws, and our weekness
4. It is based on the word of God. and not our twisted interpretation of the word.

People who reject the eternal security of the soul, or more apply stated, our position IN CHRIST. are trusting in self. And not God, and must totally reject the promise of God. The law and its reality, And hold themselves up higher and more holy and righteous than others, Which scripture makes it clear. this is NOT the case.

 

[tourist]

If there is no security in the knowledge that Jesus personally died for our sins then there is no security at all life and little or no hope for eternal life in the presence of God. Don't trust in your own interpretation of the Word of God rather, place your trust and confidence in God's promises to you.

 

[notuptome]

Why do men teach eternal security when the Bible speaks other wise. In Matthew 24.13 Jesus said, He that endures to the end, the same will be saved. Paul said in Ephesians 5.5,6 NO whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Paul also said in Romans 8.13 If you live after the flesh, you will die : but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you will leave. James 5.19,20 says, BRETHREN, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH(he must mean spiritual death here). And 1John 5.16 says If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not to death, he will ask, and he will give him life for them that sin not to death. THERE IS A SIN TO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHOULD PRAY FOR IT. So we see that eternal security(once saved, always saved) is false teaching according to the Bible the word of God. Like Jesus said we must endure to the end. May God bless you. Amen.

Mat 24:13 is prophetic speaking to Israel in the tribulation. They will be saved at the end of the tribulation because they will see Christ return and enter Jerusalem. Has nothing to do with Christians losing their salvation.

Eph 5:5-6 Speaking of the evidences of the Holy Spirit in a man. If a person does not see these things they are not saved to start with. Saved people do not do these things but if they did they have an advocate with the Father to intercede for their forgiveness. This passage deals with sanctification not salvation.

Romans 8:13 more of the sanctification not speaking of salvation.

James 5:19-20 You assume something that is not evident in the text.

1John 5:16 the only sin we are not to pray for is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Your exegesis is completely lacking any coherent understanding of Gods salvation through grace.

The first question that must be answered is "is the blood of Christ wholly and completely sufficient to save from sin?" Is there anything that can be added or must be added to the atoning work of Christ's blood on Calvary?

You cannot endure. You are not worthy of salvation. It is utter folly to claim otherwise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Sorry brother, but did you pay any attention to those scriptures I gave you. It seems like you completely ignored them, then tried to come up with some other scriptures to prove your belief. But sorry brother, you can't fool me.

Yes I did Der. I did read those Scriptures which you gave.

And I gave you Scriptures which proves that every believer today in the Church Age has eternal security.

Learn the different dispensations which are in the Holy Bible. Study them. It will help you grow in knowledge and understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

 

[der]

My brother you may of read the scriptures, but did you pay them any mind, like James 5,19,20 BRETHREN(Christians), if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH. Ezekiel 18.4 says, The soul that sins it will die. Romans 6.23 says, The wages of sin is death. 1John 5.16 says, There is a sin to death(that's spiritual death). People who deny this is like the devil: ye shall not surely die.

 

[Atwood]

Why do men teach eternal security .

Nothing you posted contradicts eternal security. Not one verse you posted states that persons lose salvation (an oxymoron). In fact to deny eternal security is to deny salvation. The Lord Jesus is the Savior in salvation; the believer in Him is the savee.

If you want interactions with specific canards, you may find it at the thread: It is Satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security.

Rom 4:16

For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

Mat 24:13 is prophetic speaking to Israel in the tribulation. They will be saved at the end of the tribulation because they will see Christ return and enter Jerusalem. Has nothing to do with Christians losing their salvation.

Eph 5:5-6 Speaking of the evidences of the Holy Spirit in a man. If a person does not see these things they are not saved to start with. Saved people do not do these things but if they did they have an advocate with the Father to intercede for their forgiveness. This passage deals with sanctification not salvation.

Romans 8:13 more of the sanctification not speaking of salvation.

James 5:19-20 You assume something that is not evident in the text.

1John 5:16 the only sin we are not to pray for is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Your exegesis is completely lacking any coherent understanding of Gods salvation through grace.

The first question that must be answered is "is the blood of Christ wholly and completely sufficient to save from sin?" Is there anything that can be added or must be added to the atoning work of Christ's blood on Calvary?

You cannot endure. You are not worthy of salvation. It is utter folly to claim otherwise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, Wilco, Over and Out,

After a while of posting answers to the same old canards over and over, generally where persons take passages that don't speak of a believer losing salvation (oxymoron) and want to argue that they somehow imply losing salvation -- after a while one gets tired of answering the same old canards over and over. I answered enough of these canards at the thread It is Satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security.

I must say I also am glad it is not up to me!

 

[Atwood]

My brother you may of read the scriptures, but did you pay them any mind, like James 5,19,20 BRETHREN(Christians), if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH. Ezekiel 18.4 says, The soul that sins it will die. Romans 6.23 says, The wages of sin is death. 1John 5.16 says, There is a sin to death(that's spiritual death). People who deny this is like the devil: ye shall not surely die.

Your verses don't mention eternal life, nor losing salvation.
Saving a soul from death; sin unto death:

See 1 Cor 6, delivering a saved man to satan for the destruction of the flesh (body) that his spirit might be saved.

To prove your impossible case, you have to have a verse that addresses your canard.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

 

[Butch5]

Why do men teach eternal security when the Bible speaks other wise. In Matthew 24.13 Jesus said, He that endures to the end, the same will be saved. Paul said in Ephesians 5.5,6 NO whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Paul also said in Romans 8.13 If you live after the flesh, you will die : but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you will leave. James 5.19,20 says, BRETHREN, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way will SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH(he must mean spiritual death here). And 1John 5.16 says If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not to death, he will ask, and he will give him life for them that sin not to death. THERE IS A SIN TO DEATH: I DO NOT SAY THAT HE SHOULD PRAY FOR IT. So we see that eternal security(once saved, always saved) is false teaching according to the Bible the word of God. Like Jesus said we must endure to the end. May God bless you. Amen.

I believe the doctrine is driven by fear.

 

[Butch5]

Your verses don't mention eternal life, nor losing salvation.
Saving a soul from death; sin unto death:

See 1 Cor 6, delivering a saved man to satan for the destruction of the flesh (body) that his spirit might be saved.

To prove your impossible case, you have to have a verse that addresses your canard.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Which of these says one can't lose salvation?