Eternal life

posthuman · Jan 20, 2023

do not forget John 17:3 --
eternal life = knowing Him
knowledge is not a physical property. it is a mental/spiritual property.

We know in part and we prophesy in part, but when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

(1 Corinthians 113:9-12)

not yet knowing fully does not equal not knowing at all.
if we know Him, we have eternal life.
when we know Him fully, that life does not become 'more eternal' and knowing Him now only in part does not make that life that He gives us 'partially eternal'
contained in a mustard seed is the entire tree, waiting to be revealed.

this is going to be a very difficult topic for anyone who does not understand that eternal is eternal, not temporary, and that God is faithful; His promises are sure. God 'calls that which is not as though it were' ((Romans 4:17)) because there is in Him no lie - who are we then to speak of His gift doubtfully, or accuse Him of misspeaking?

Runningman · Jan 20, 2023

posthuman said:

No one is saying God is misspeaking, but I’m sure you’ll find no shortage of people who say you are misrepresenting what was said. The Bible contains a lot of nuanced information, which is why we study, and discuss it to understand it better.

Speaking of nuances, here’s something else to consider:

Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Plainly, we are not literally seated in heaven right now even though the passage says so. Our body, soul, and spirit is not in heaven, we’re on Earth. The above verses are speaking of a promise.

So what was Paul talking about? He was referencing the coming the coming ages again when we will be raised with Christ.

When Christ was raised he had a bodily resurrection. He didn’t die spiritually, but we did. Therefore when we are raised up with Christ the kind of resurrection we will have is a bodily resurrection. Once again, a future event.

When the Bible speaks of “you have eternal life” it’s possibly just speaking of a guarantee or a promise of something in the age to come.

Webers.Home · Jan 20, 2023

.
It's possible to have eternal life while not having immortality.

For example: Jesus had eternal life when he was here (John 5:26) but he
didn't obtain immortality till his resurrection. (Rom 6:9)

Likewise; Christ's believers all have eternal life now. (John 3:36, John 6:47,
John 5:24, 1John 5:13) but they won't have immortality till their
resurrection. (Rom 8:23-25, 1Cor 15:51-53)

FAQ: How can Christ's believers all have eternal life now when they die off
just like everybody else?

REPLY: Because eternal life isn't physical. Its power resides at the core of
one's being.

• John 3:5-8 . . Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell
where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the
Spirit.
_

Webers.Home · Jan 20, 2023

.
According to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all matters
pertaining to Christianity, people lacking eternal life also lack His son, viz:
they are quite christless.

• 1John 5:11-12 . . And this is what God has testified: He has given us
eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life;
whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.

FAQ: Why is it that some Christians have eternal life and others don't? Why
the disparity?

REPLY: According to John 5:24 and John 10:27-28; the ones who don't have
eternal life are lacking it because they 1) don't listen to Christ, 2) don't
follow him, and 3) don't believe in God.

FAQ: How can you possibly suggest that there are Christians out there who
don't believe in God?

REPLY: The Greek word translated "believe" in John 5:24 goes beyond mere
consent to the existence of God. It speaks of trust; which can be roughly
defined as reliance upon God's statements as a solid, stand-up person of
integrity who can be counted on to always tell the truth.

For example: when somebody insists nobody obtains eternal life till
sometime in the future, they are not only quite christless; but also
insinuating that God doesn't know what He's talking about in the now;
and by doing so, they make Him out to be dishonest. (1John 5:9-10)
_

Runningman · Jan 20, 2023

Webers.Home said:

And if you’re wrong? Ever consider the possibility you misunderstood something a long the way and still have things to learn? The dangerous thing about judging others as calling God a liar is you better have your Ps and Qs in order. If you don’t then there’s no reason you can’t fall under your own judgement.

So take an honest look at the Bible and try to understand what they are really saying.

Eternal life now and then an additional provisioning of eternal life in the future? Since we can know God now and have eternal life, how would eternal life be different or the same in the age to come?

I know the answer, but I want to see what you will say.

These are good questions and they really do matter. A lot.

Webers.Home · Jan 20, 2023

.
Note the grammatical tense of the passage below: it's present tense rather
than future, indicating that folks who correctly dine upon Jesus' flesh and
blood have eternal life right now-- no delay and no waiting period.

• John 6:53-54 . . I tell you the truth: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of
Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and
drinks my blood has eternal life

Now according to Jesus; people lacking eternal life not only haven't correctly
dined upon his flesh and blood, but they are also quite dead on the hoof.
_

Pilgrimshope · Jan 20, 2023

Runningman said:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It matters whether we accept the word of life or not

if we do

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

If we don’t

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-

some christians repent and hear the gospel and they follow after the word promising eternal life others won’t hear the gospel

those who repent and follow the gospel when thier body dies thier eternal spirit doesn’t it goes to be with Jesus forever

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

others have to wait until the last day to be raised up for judgement because they wouldn’t repent and believe Gods word of eternal life they have to be raised up from death where as those who received the gospel already were raised up

We need to realize flesh and blood doesn’t inherit eternal life our spirit is eternal and already is alive in us because again we received the gospel

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When our flesh dies it dies but our spirit doesn’t

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50-51‬ ‭

At the resurrection flesh and blood isn’t going to rise up

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is a natural body and inside is a spiritual body born of Christ. Our bodies are made to die like a seed but thy life in us is life and isn’t going to die. Who we are on the inside is forever

eternal Life begins with being born again of the spirit of Christ found in the gospel

If we heed the gospel we don’t have to worry about death we’ve been born as Gods spirituAl children and have inherited the life in Christ Jesus his son

others believe it or not will be delivered from the grave and hell in the end

Aaron56 · Jan 20, 2023

posthuman said:

even though i find quite silly the invitation to bicker over the precise timing of a thing which by very definition transcends time..

And this is eternal life:

that they may know You, the only true God,

and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

(John 17:3)

the question is when do we know Him.
do we know Him now or do we not?

if we do not know Him, we do not have eternal life.
if we know Him, we do.

I was just about to post this.

That's a bingo!

SonLight_Wolf · Jan 20, 2023

Angela53510 said:

Our soul is from God. If our soul is if and from God it is immortal as the God who gave it.

If someone wants to insist the soul isn't immortal I'd think they'd have a very hard time explaining the saints living with God in heaven for eternity. Or,as some believe, the damned burning in hell for eternity.

You're aware of the creation of Adam verses. God breathed into his nostrils and Adam became a living soul.

And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the soul returns to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Runningman · Jan 20, 2023

SonLight_Wolf said:

Unless only God alone is immortal.

Neither of those points are true.

And God told Adam he would die if he ate the fruit.

That doesn’t prove the soul is immortal.

SonLight_Wolf · Jan 20, 2023

Runningman said:

Now you're reaching into the realm of the deeply blaspheming,heretical, and Satanically absurd.

First you endeavor to call Christ a fraud and insist salvation and the gospel of eternal life are fiction.

Now you claim the soul of and from God is not immortal.
If the soul that is of and from God is not immortal, contrary to all those scriptures I'll not waste my time posting to one for whom they mean nothing, then God is not immortal.

You don't believe your soul is immortal. You're right.
You don't believe you are eternally saved in Christ. You're right.

Webers.Home · Jan 20, 2023

.
• 1Tim 1:17 . . Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be
honor and glory forever and ever.

Well; I don't claim to be a linguist, but I'm pretty sure somebody goofed
with that verse. The Greek word translated "immortal" doesn't mean
immune to death, it means incorruptible and that's the way it's translated
most other places, e.g. Rom 1:23, 1Cor 9:25, 1Cor 15:52, 1Pet 1:4, 1Pet
1:23, and 1Pet 3:4.

Here's another tricky passage:

• 1Tim 6:13-16 . . I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all
things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius
Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the
appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper
time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord
of lords; who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable
light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal
dominion!

The Greek word translated "immortality" in that verse does actually mean
immune to death so we're good to go with that one.

However; at first glance that verse appears to be saying God alone has
immortality. But I disagree. It appears to me saying that Christ Jesus alone
possesses immortality and that he dwells in an unapproachable light, etc.
because he does for sure sit at God's right hand sharing His throne.

Now Christ Jesus is a human being, and for now no other human being has
immortality because he alone has been raised from the dead unto
glorification. The rest of us are awaiting our turn.

• 1Cor 15:51-53 . . Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we
will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the
imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

When that event comes to pass, it will no longer be correct to say Christ
Jesus alone has immortality.
_

Webers.Home · Jan 20, 2023

.
According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are both perishable.
However; though the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable
only by divine means; i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily
simultaneous, viz: the soul lives on until such a time as God decides to give
it either a thumb up or a thumb down.
_

Komentaja · Jan 20, 2023

Obviously we partake of the resurrection in the future, but we have it in the sense that it is promised to us. God often talks about future things as they already were, because the promises are so sure.

Do we have eternal life already? Yes, we POSSESS eternal life, because we know the Father and the Son. However, we will only actually "experience" the resurrection body in the future, which is what those verses about the future redemption are talking about.

SonLight_Wolf · Jan 20, 2023

Webers.Home said:

.
• 1Tim 1:17 . . Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be
honor and glory forever and ever.

Well; I don't claim to be a linguist, but I'm pretty sure somebody goofed
with that verse. The Greek word translated "immortal" doesn't mean
immune to death, it means incorruptible and that's the way it's translated
most other places, e.g. Rom 1:23, 1Cor 9:25, 1Cor 15:52, 1Pet 1:4, 1Pet
1:23, and 1Pet 3:4.

Here's another tricky passage:

• 1Tim 6:13-16 . . I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all
things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius
Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the
appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper
time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord
of lords; who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable
light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal
dominion!

The Greek word translated "immortality" in that verse does actually mean
immune to death so we're good to go with that one.

However; at first glance that verse appears to be saying God alone has
immortality. But I disagree. It appears to me saying that Christ Jesus alone
possesses immortality and that he dwells in an unapproachable light, etc.
because he does for sure sit at God's right hand sharing His throne.

Now Christ Jesus is a human being, and for now no other human being has
immortality because he alone has been raised from the dead unto
glorification. The rest of us are awaiting our turn.

• 1Cor 15:51-53 . . Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we
will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable,
and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the
imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

When that event comes to pass, it will no longer be correct to say Christ
Jesus alone has immortality.
_

Am I mistaken that you're the member who posts on a number of Christian discussion sites a thread entitled Hell's population clock?

Blade · Jan 20, 2023

"This thread is about eternal life. Is it now, in the age to come, or both?"

What's eternal life? Well if a sinner dies are they not still alive? Got to stand before God so.. something is living. I read this " While we do not have an "immortal soul" or an immortal body yet, we do have a continually conscious spirit outside the body, that receives eternal life as a gift when we accept Jesus as our Savior, and will pass on to Paradise after leaving the body, and be raised with our resurrected body when Jesus returns to call us home."

Everlasting-Grace · Jan 20, 2023

Runningman said:

none of the possibilities you gave fit

Jesus tells us when we get it

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The problem is to many people see eternal life as some religious word. or doctrine. when it is more than that

eternal - forever. never ending.
life - spiritual life

the term means one will live forever. they will never perish. it is given the moment one comes to true saving faith. as Jesus promised. from that point only. they will never die.. It happens at the moment we are born again. not of corruptible seed (which can be lost) but of incorruptible seed (which can not die)

when will people stop trying to earn their salvation?

Runningman · Jan 20, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

I quoted the Bible. What isn’t exactly fitting?

Runningman · Jan 20, 2023

SonLight_Wolf said:

Wow. All of those bad things you just said about me aren’t true.

This is called a Bible discussion. Can you maturely handle when someone disagrees with you? I can put down scripture for everything I believe; try it some time.

And the soul isn’t immortal. I can prove it with the Bible.

Everlasting-Grace · Jan 20, 2023

Runningman said:

You quoted from the Bible from the 5 choices? Are they all correct?

No my friend. You left the correct choice out. So I can;t vote

Eternal life

When do you get eternal life?

Now

In the future

Now and again in the future

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