Wow! Lots to read and catch up on in here. Thanks for your thoughts everyone!
Educational program for our church
- Thread starter TinyKnight
- Start date
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beaglehound
Guest
Curious why you posted about this issue at your church 2 years later TinyKnight. Can you share?
After the young man left our church, our new associate pastor (who is fantastic) laid down the law and convinced our senior pastor to set some additional standards for who is allowed to become an Elder.
The area we serve is an impoverished part of an inner city, and we need young men who love Jesus to serve this community selflessly. We are looking to raise up and disciple young men for Christ who can help out with things around the church so that our senior pastor doesn't get overwhelmed having to do everything alone.
I was curious to see what others thought of the situation described on this thread. It's nice to get some unbiased outside opinions from time to time.
This young man needs to humble himself and keep serving. We didn't want him to leave, but that was his choice. We're looking for young men to rise up in the church and be men, and not be overly sensitive. We have several great young men who are serving Christ and our church well, and we're grateful for them.
The area we serve is an impoverished part of an inner city, and we need young men who love Jesus to serve this community selflessly. We are looking to raise up and disciple young men for Christ who can help out with things around the church so that our senior pastor doesn't get overwhelmed having to do everything alone.
I was curious to see what others thought of the situation described on this thread. It's nice to get some unbiased outside opinions from time to time.
This young man needs to humble himself and keep serving. We didn't want him to leave, but that was his choice. We're looking for young men to rise up in the church and be men, and not be overly sensitive. We have several great young men who are serving Christ and our church well, and we're grateful for them.
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beaglehound
Guest
"Help out"? "Humble himself"? "Not be overly sensitive"?
Something is not right in your church.
We want to raise up young men to be strong followers of Jesus, and we aim to continue doing that. The young man mentioned above left the community, and that was his choice. We're looking to disciple young men from within the church to lead well.
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beaglehound
Guest
What you are saying here does not line up with your original post TinyKnight.
Read your original post again. Why were you writing in the present tense if this all happened 2 years ago? I could highlight examples if you would like.
You even said you were wanting to know how to handle the situation as if it were currently going on. What gives?
As I read the comments this morning, two things came to mind.
What has been gained for the kingdom through the dispute about paying the author of the curriculum? I believe that the Apostle Paul put it best when he said that he and those who worked with him were entitled to be paid, but in order to keep the ministry free from the perception of outside influence, they chose not to use that entitlement. The author has moved on to another ministry, and I congratulate him for that. It is now time for the church he left to do the same.
The other is the position and duties of church elders. In the case of this church, and I would say many others also, I believe that they have strayed from the Biblical definition and function of the church elder. There is a lot that I want to say here, but due to my physical disability, I will only say this. Elders need to spend more time in the word, and seek God much more often in leadership decisions.
What has been gained for the kingdom through the dispute about paying the author of the curriculum? I believe that the Apostle Paul put it best when he said that he and those who worked with him were entitled to be paid, but in order to keep the ministry free from the perception of outside influence, they chose not to use that entitlement. The author has moved on to another ministry, and I congratulate him for that. It is now time for the church he left to do the same.
The other is the position and duties of church elders. In the case of this church, and I would say many others also, I believe that they have strayed from the Biblical definition and function of the church elder. There is a lot that I want to say here, but due to my physical disability, I will only say this. Elders need to spend more time in the word, and seek God much more often in leadership decisions.
Women making spiritual decisions in your church was never addressed. It makes me wonder which denomination (if any) your church belongs to.
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beaglehound
Guest
What I would like the OP to explain is why he posted in the present tense. Why was he asking others how the situation could best be dealt with as if it were still on going and still needed resolution. This unfortunate incident took place over two years ago. The young man and his wife left this church two years ago. Why did TinyKnight bring it up two years later as if it happened last week? Some clarification is needed.
I'm waiting for a reply from TinyKnight.
I'm waiting for a reply from TinyKnight.
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beaglehound
Guest
Respect and appreciation for the hours of hard work the young man man invested in the project.
Integrity of the church perhaps?
We used to be members of a church in western Canada. Directing the choir was a paid position. The choir director needed to take some time off. It may have been several weeks. I cannot remember. My wife who was an experienced choir director herself was asked if she could sub in. She cheerfully accepted the invitation and was never expecting to be paid. She put in a lot of preparation time. No offer of reimbursement was made though the choir director still received a full salary even for the weeks she was was not there. That was a little off in my opinion.
We paid the same man a small amount to clean the church buildings for as long as I can remember. Just before covid19 he became unable to continue. For a time his family pitched in and kept the church clean on his behalf, so we continued to pay him. He passed away last year. We were going to continue to pay the family until we could fill his position. They refused the payment, but agreed that in honor of their father and grandfather they would continue to clean the church.
Offering a payment in advance, is an appropriate way for a church to do business.
Asking for a payment in advance, is also an appropriate way for a church to do business.
If no offer is made or no payment asked for in advance, no payment should be expected.
IMHO, this church has problems, and they have nothing to do with the curriculum project. Where is God's Word in the leadership team? Unless this problem is fixed, there is a congregation rebellion and probable split in the near future.
@beaglehound
You're right. My tense is inconsistent. This was a few years ago, and both the church and the young man have moved on. I guess I wrote it like a present issue because it feels like that. I still think about this situation, and as others have stated, if we don't discuss things like this as a church, then we can't learn from one another in how to handle things like this better.
It seems like there is a mixed opinion on what is right in this scenario. Even though it happened a few years ago, it is still helpful to learn from the wisdom of others in order to make better decisions in the future as a church. Hope that helps.
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beaglehound
Guest
I cannot speak for others TinyKnight but transparency and honesty are high up on my list when it comes to posting on a Christian website.
Your explaination has nothing to do with your tenses being "inconsistent". You were well aware of what you were doing.
Further, it has nothing to do with an event having taken place 2 years ago that feels as if it were just yesterday. That is rationalizing your behaviour.
Personally, I feel used TinyKnight. And I feel you used all those who gave of their time earnestly and offered you their opinions and advice.
What you did was what one might expect to see in a teen chat room. Not on a Christian website!
You could have easily said you wanted to discuss an event that took place a couple of years ago and what people thought about the way your church handled it at the time. Instead you chose to be deceptive making it appear that your church was dealing with a current crisis and you needed advice on how best to handle it. That is why I say you were being deceptive. That is my opinion.
Is this typically the way the ministerial team at your church operates? If it is then you guys have a lot of soul searching to do as far as I'm concerned.
In your most recent post you said the young man and your church have moved on. Since it has been two years I would advise that the matter be dropped. Unless there is some hidden agenda going on.
Your explaination has nothing to do with your tenses being "inconsistent". You were well aware of what you were doing.
Further, it has nothing to do with an event having taken place 2 years ago that feels as if it were just yesterday. That is rationalizing your behaviour.
Personally, I feel used TinyKnight. And I feel you used all those who gave of their time earnestly and offered you their opinions and advice.
What you did was what one might expect to see in a teen chat room. Not on a Christian website!
You could have easily said you wanted to discuss an event that took place a couple of years ago and what people thought about the way your church handled it at the time. Instead you chose to be deceptive making it appear that your church was dealing with a current crisis and you needed advice on how best to handle it. That is why I say you were being deceptive. That is my opinion.
Is this typically the way the ministerial team at your church operates? If it is then you guys have a lot of soul searching to do as far as I'm concerned.
In your most recent post you said the young man and your church have moved on. Since it has been two years I would advise that the matter be dropped. Unless there is some hidden agenda going on.
I'm not sure the church has moved on, nor will it until the underlying problem has been resolved. As I see it, the church leadership team needs to be replaced. It appears to be much more self oriented than God devoted.
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beaglehound
Guest
Well according to the OP his church has moved on. Whether or not it has is that church's problem. I'm concerned with how the OP brought up the whole issue in first place. I think that was quite clear.