So do you think we can prevent the war of Armageddon or are you wiling to start it?
Dominion . . ?
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Armageddon can not be prevented. As far as starting it, I doubt it’s my calling in life, but if it’s God’s will that I do then so be it.
There is nothing political about recognizing fraud. It is a criminal matter regardless of politics. And Paul said that in the last days "evildoers and seducers" would increase exponentially. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. (2 Tim 3:13)
Everything that the Democrats and the Leftists have done in America for the past four years is based solely on "deceiving and being deceived". And because the media are co-conspirators, they broadcast deception daily.
Sorry I didn't end up with much free time after work yesterday..
I could put it this way:
We have in this country an opportunity to make our voices heard and our opinions counted about what becom s law. We should take that opportunity, for sure.
But what I'm asking about is, suppose the votes are counted or the representative is elected and the outcome is that something contrary to our wishes is enacted or someone we disagree with is given power and authority, according to the will of the republic. That our opinion turns out to be minority.
Given that we have an ethos informed by scripture, does the gospel then compel us to overturn the authority of the elected officials and impose our will on the secular nation regardess of - in fact despite - the expressed will of the people being contrary to ours?
Suppose for example we are convinced covetousness is sinful. The laws allow Walmart to advertise and sell baubles. Does the gospel obligate us to go on a bauble-clasm, shut down Walmart and forcibly remove any political power in our way, setting up loyalists to our cause by whatever means necessary, to make sure that no one, whether un the church or out of it can access baubles or be tempted by them?
Do we spank our neighbors kids.
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pottersclay
Guest
We are to oppose evil where ever it is found. Failure to do so causes judgement even against God's people.
Evil will flourish when good men do nothing.
The 10 commandments are divided into 2 parts relationship with God, relationship with men.
Although evil may seem to take over a people we are called to fight the good fight.
When paul said we fight not flesh against flesh but against wickedness that is spiritual he is reminding us where sin had originally came from and what is it's catalyst.
Jesus comes back to rule with a rod of iron before all the nation's.
We are called to be salt and light the example of God's righteousness and goodness toward his people.
But if the salt loses its effect or the light is hidden it serves no purpose and is good for nothing.
No we are not called to rule but to occupy, to make way for the one who will come to rule in righteousness and truth.
Jesus pointed to the days of lot. It is said that lot stood at the gates daily. This is where men would go to reason of what is right and wrong. Although his actions of offering his daughter seems unholy the action shows the blindness of unnatural lust had taken full measure.
God's judgement was on the wicked and not his people.
We then read the story where sin is found in the camp. A forbidden buried idol. The camp begins to suffer God calls the camp and directs them to the source. The camp regains the favor of God.
No we will not change the world but we are called to rescue as many as we can from it's peril.
Preaching and setting the example of God's righteousness and goodness.
Jesus said...my peace I give you not as the word gives but I give you.
What I take of that is this.......peace is the absence of conflict....or the acceptance of it.
Always remember judgement starts in the house of the Lord.
Evil will flourish when good men do nothing.
The 10 commandments are divided into 2 parts relationship with God, relationship with men.
Although evil may seem to take over a people we are called to fight the good fight.
When paul said we fight not flesh against flesh but against wickedness that is spiritual he is reminding us where sin had originally came from and what is it's catalyst.
Jesus comes back to rule with a rod of iron before all the nation's.
We are called to be salt and light the example of God's righteousness and goodness toward his people.
But if the salt loses its effect or the light is hidden it serves no purpose and is good for nothing.
No we are not called to rule but to occupy, to make way for the one who will come to rule in righteousness and truth.
Jesus pointed to the days of lot. It is said that lot stood at the gates daily. This is where men would go to reason of what is right and wrong. Although his actions of offering his daughter seems unholy the action shows the blindness of unnatural lust had taken full measure.
God's judgement was on the wicked and not his people.
We then read the story where sin is found in the camp. A forbidden buried idol. The camp begins to suffer God calls the camp and directs them to the source. The camp regains the favor of God.
No we will not change the world but we are called to rescue as many as we can from it's peril.
Preaching and setting the example of God's righteousness and goodness.
Jesus said...my peace I give you not as the word gives but I give you.
What I take of that is this.......peace is the absence of conflict....or the acceptance of it.
Always remember judgement starts in the house of the Lord.
Was it Israel's job to police the Egyptians tho? Were they supposed to take over Babylon and force the pagans to keep sabbaths and feasts and wear tzitzit? Or were there laws for them and 'the foreigner dwelling among them'?
Daniel didn't ask that no one eat meat, only that he and his fellow israelites be allowed not to - and Paul didn't try to get a seat in the Roman Senate to change their laws.
Colossians 2:20-23
Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as [though] living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, [false] humility, and neglect of the body, [but are] of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
If such regulations are worthless for us to combat the lusts of the flesh, are we to impose them on unbelievers?
Is part of the great commission a mandate to make the wicked put on a false outward show of humility & will-worship?
Some people believe this, and believe that God will not judge the USA if the tombs are whitewashed.
Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as [though] living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, [false] humility, and neglect of the body, [but are] of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
If such regulations are worthless for us to combat the lusts of the flesh, are we to impose them on unbelievers?
Is part of the great commission a mandate to make the wicked put on a false outward show of humility & will-worship?
Some people believe this, and believe that God will not judge the USA if the tombs are whitewashed.
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pottersclay
Guest
Totally missed the point. Israel was given a land we are sent into all the world.
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pottersclay
Guest
Teach us to pray Lord......thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Did not God send moses to pharaoh to say what God wanted.
Was not Daniel and his 3 friends a testamony of God fearing people refusing to obey that which was not of God.
Your argument here will fall apart over and over again.
What God has joined together let no man put asunder.
That is the point - are we sent into the world in order to subdue and rule it?
Or to call sinners out of it?
What Moses asked of Pharaoh was to let God's people depart from Egypt, to serve their God in their own way - not to place unbelieving Egypt under the law of the covenant.
I'm not sure what you think my 'argument' is?
If the election turns out to be not a sham then in a Democratic Constitutional Republic the minority groups have equal rights. They have the ability by law to vote and lobby for their beliefs. I see nothing in scripture to say we shouldn't vote. But I see how we should vote related to morality.
If the contrary will of the people is to start a socialist party like NAZI and then determine certain minority groups are not worthy of life it is not only of moral duty but by the sanctity of life we defend ourselves and the innocence of others.
When the blood of the innocent cries out to the Lord and the Lord looks as the supposed moral upright of mankind choose to turn a blind eye while the wicked of evil loosen the toxicity of their ideologies upon the world. The Lord God will judge me on my conscience as He has told in His Word what is moral, what is good, and what is evil.
Proverbs 24:11-12
11 Rescue those who are being taken away to death;
hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.
12 If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,”
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it,
and will he not repay man according to his work?
i have to be able to explain why Paul, prisoner of Nero Ceaser, wrote Romans 13 - saying be subject to earthly authority because it is appointed by God. why he did not say, seize control of or otherwise overthrow the Roman government because their civil precepts & culture favor immorality.
it may be an 'urban legend' of the church, but i have heard that in Rome unwanted children were carried to term and then dumped in refuse heaps, and that Christians - historically poor and with little or no political sway - rescued & adopted them.
of course any Christian with influence over national policy would argue to disallow such a practice and try to convince secular authorities to outlaw it, but abortion didn't become illegal until ~ 200's AD in Rome by decree of a Ceaser, as an infringement of parental property rights, punishable by temporary exile.
is the only reason there isn't anything in the epistles encouraging Christians to take control of the governments of nations and constrain evildoers "by bullets if necessary" because under threat of persecution the apostles had to keep such teachings secret?
to my understanding 'starting it' amounts to joining with a coalition of nations led by the antichrist to invade Israel & seize something from them.
Then it’s not my calling.to my understanding 'starting it' amounts to joining with a coalition of nations led by the antichrist to invade Israel & seize something from them.
to my understanding 'starting it' amounts to joining with a coalition of nations led by the antichrist to invade Israel & seize something from them.
Agreed that "joining with" this is a NEGATIVE (not that I believe "the Church which is His body" will be present on the earth leading up to this point in the chronology, I do not!). I do, however, think that [largely] those who will be joining in , on that [Armageddon], will be deluded into thinking they are doing "good" things.
Here's what Scripture itself has to say of it:
Revelation 19:19 -
"19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage [active voice] war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army."
Revelation 16:13-14 - [same ^ time-slot]
"13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go forth to the kings of the whole inhabited world, to gather them together unto the battle of the great day of God the Almighty."
Isaiah 24:21-22a - [same ^ time-slot]
"21 In that day the LORD will punish the host of heaven above and the kings of the earth below [/on the earth]. 22 They will be gathered together like prisoners in a pit [note: elsewhere in Scripture, "pit" refers to "death/the grave" (see Rev19:21 "were SLAIN"<--THESE do NOT "enter" the ["BLESSED"] MK age which follows!)]. They will be confined to a dungeon..."
I agree with those saying "Dominion Theology / Reconstructionism / Theonomy / etc" is wacked [/unbiblical... but disguised/purported as being biblical, of course 
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In Romans 13 what kind of government does Paul speak of? Good or bad government?
Also, scripture speaks to 4 different areas. The individual, the family, Church, and government. Romans 13 is only one teaching on government. We have the whole Bible or even Moses's example of government to study. Why was Pharaoh considered to be a bad example of government? Why were they held to judgment? Then why were the Israelites also judged for constant complaining and rebellion to the commands of Moses?
It was God who raised up Joshua to cleanse the Promised Land.
It was God who raised up Babylon to send the Israelites into exile.
It is God who moved in the American Revolution.
It is God who favored the Allied forces in WW2.
How do we know? Because God's hand was in it through miracles and events that gave one side advantages no one could say it was by chance.
The church did eventually gain cultural influence and Christianity became the sole religion of Rome.
But there is another concept of scripture related to governmental authority. Do you submit if they come knocking on your door asking you if you know of any Jews. Reading Romans 13 someone may obey and they drag the Jews off to be tortured or killed.
How about in the 1800s and your church in the southern states of America participating in the underground railroad. If local authorities came knocking and asked you did you know of any runaway slaves. Would you submit?
In 1861 the country fell into a civil war which authority would you follow? The one who supports slavery or the other who doesn't?
Another concept of scripture is the topic of self-defense. Do you biblically have the right to self-defense and defense of others? That can also shed light on what choice should the Christian make if they had the option of self-defense.