1. You will not find any indication that the Church (capital C) was already in existence when Christ and His disciples were present together before His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.
before and after the law came
Brother I agree with what your saying but if you look really closely he was there and so was the potential church in the wilderness but something happened then that still happens now people reject his words and worship other images of god
This actually happened first which led to what you’re saying there ( which again I’m not disagreeing at all with you I’m just saying before hat was true , the church was going to be set up , Jesus was there with ten thousand saints on the Mount but they broke the covenant and God then reacted
“This is that
Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
A prophet ( in the future Jesus ) shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
This is he, ( Moses ) that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
to whom our fathers would not obey, but
thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt, saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
And
they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;( this actually happened he promised to send Christ later and he left them with an angel and Moses and observed and spoke to the angel who spoke to Moses who spoke to the people who all said “ we will obey everything you tell us it changed when they worshipped the calf is my point )
as it is written in the book of the prophets, O
ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? ( question ) Yea,
ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And
I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”( the prophets answer )
Acts 7:37-43 KJV
The sequence of events is
God honoring their requests because they are so afraid of his presence “ don’t let him speak to us anymore Moses , you go talk with him , then come back down and we’ll all do whatever he says to do but whatever you do please do t let him talk anymore to us we’ll die for sure if he does “
“Now therefore
why should we die? for this great fire will consume us:
if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.
For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?
Go thou ( Moses ) near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us
all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.”
Deuteronomy 5:25-27 KJV
and so God says “ very well that’s fair I won’t speak to them anymore I’ll speak to you Moses and then you will lead and rule over the people as judge and lead them to the promised land I promised Abram ,
and I will go with you I’ll come later and speak to them through this other prophet in the future
Gods responding to what they wanted
“
according to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying,
Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
And
the LORD said unto me, ( Moses )
They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.( see peters sermon in acts chapter 3:22- end and John chapter 12: 49-51 it’s a reference to Jesus and his words) And
it shall come to pass, (in the future) that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Deuteronomy 18:16-19 KJV
So then Moses goes up to get the written law from God for them and while he’s receiving it the people create a golden calf by Aaron the high priest of God by the laws hands and bow to it worshipping it sayong “ this is our god Israel that saved us from Egypt , “then they had a celebration and dances naked around it in pagan worship
This didn’t set well with God after what he’s done to prove them his reality and faith towards them it was the first commandment he just had spoken which they all agreed to obey fully (See the first commandment he spoke in chapter 20 of exodus )
at that point when they did that like it says his response was to tell Moses “ get away from me moses I’m going to destroy them all consume them and begin again with just you “
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for
thy people, ( not my people but your people ) which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have
corrupted themselves: they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”
Exodus 32:7-10 KJV
But Moses then intercededs goes and judges the people slaughtering 3000 of them by the priests hands and emplores God to spare them and God relents ( read through v 29)
but things changed now he doesn’t just say okay I forgive them Moses he says this instead of “ I will Go with you and be your god like before they did that “
moses intercedes for them and look at what God said then
“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin–; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses,
Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Therefore
now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee:
nevertheless
in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.”
Exodus 32:32-35 KJV
now see God has done this which is what stephens pointnis and Paul’s later because of their sin
“they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;”
he set an angel over them at that point because they chose a false god and broke his covenant
“Behold, I send
an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions:
for my name is in him.”( because of what they did )
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
The law is like it is because of that but my point is the church was
in the beginning and after the law the law is based on this so it’s not the church like your saying
“Wherefore then serveth
the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
pauls talking about whatbhaopened like Stephen was also showing us that when they chose a false god and worshipped it goving it gods glory that’s what shapes the laws unforgiving dispostion it provoked Gods wrath upon them so he set an unforgiving angel over the law and let Moses a hard man make the judgements of “his “people
I hope you understand why I said this and that it’s not a disagreement but just a consideration of how to see the law and to look not only after it for Jesus but before it came after that transgression of the first commandment
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