Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

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Cameron143

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Everything not of faith is sin.
Of course. And that's the point. Unbelief is a sin, and according to some it has been paid for at the cross for every person, but still be held against someone at the judgment. Apparently, sins which are placed behind God's back, remembered no more, cast into the sea of forgetfulness, are as far from us as the east is from the west magically reappear on judgment day to condemn some whose sins are said to be paid for.
 

Cameron143

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Unbelief is denial of Christ (evil). You can call it sin if you want but it won't alter the fact Christ cannot pay for it because He cannot deny Himself 2Tim.2:13 . He paid for all the wrongdoing (sin) that results from our unbelief (evil). When we entertain desires that are not based on the the truth but are a rejection of the truth, we end up committing a sin.

James 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.


Christ paid for our sin, we have to pay for our evil. For the believer it will mean loss of reward, for the unbeliever it will mean the lake of fire.
Are we commanded to believe?
 
Jul 3, 2015
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Of course. And that's the point. Unbelief is a sin, and according to some it has been paid for at the cross for every person, but still be held against someone at the judgment. Apparently, sins which are placed behind God's back, remembered no more, cast into the sea of forgetfulness, are as far from us as the east is from the west magically reappear on judgment day to condemn some whose sins are said to be paid for.

Psalm 103 verse 12 ~ As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.
:)
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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@sawdust

No it isn't.
Yes it is, that's why the elect who Christ died for are reconciled to God even while they are unbelieving enemies towards God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

If unbelief wasn't paid for for them, no way are they reconciled to God. The non elect are under condemnation and wrath as unbelievers Jn 3:18,36

So there is a noted difference.
 

brightfame52

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Rev 20:12-13
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

All sin is paid for......But not our evil. Human good is evil. Cains offering was not a sin, it was his own "good" or evil.

Matt 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I dont know what in the world you talking about. Nobody Christ died for needs worry about all that, they have Justification of life Rom 5:18
 

brightfame52

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Works are what God says they are, not what men like you say they are.

Taking hold of the gift offered is not a meritorious work no matter what some depraved system of interpretation says it is.

I know you like to consider a single verse out of Scripture to feebly attempt to establish erroneous doctrine, but if you could look past the blindness into some context, you might see that the taking hold of abundant grace in Rom5:17 ties back to having access/a way of approach into this grace by faith and being justified by faith discussed at the beginning of the chapter Rom5:1-2. That active taking hold in Rom5:17 is what Faith does. Actually, it is Faith as pistis and lambanō are used in parallel in the Text.

I was pondering you guys and your system and fallacious argumentation while out breathing the fresh air this morning. It's kind of subtle but when pushed your fallacies jump straight into telling those who don't accept your misinterpretations that we don't know Grace. If we push this harder to get you where you inevitably go with these logical fallacies, this allegation "scoff[ing] at the Gospel of Grace" at root is you telling us we're not Christians. Your asserting "works [salvation]" is just your heading further to where you'll end up at denying our salvation.

The more learned TULIPists know not to go there. The aggressive pups like you haven't learned this yet. The fallacious argumentation shows the poor reasoning at work to take you there.

It's sad, actually. With all the Grace we have access to, we the corporate elect should do better.
You bring mans action into it, its works and its condemned, I dont care what you say. Not a word about mans actions in Rom 5:18-19 all the Justification is the result of one Person, to Him be all the Glory.
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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You bring mans action into it, its works and its condemned, I dont care what you say. Not a word about mans actions in Rom 5:18-19 all the Justification is the result of one Person, to Him be all the Glory.
Not a word about man's actions except actively taking hold of the gracious gift in Rom5:17 - which is commanded of men by the way. At least you're looking at 2 verses now instead of one. So, maybe there's some hope.

Faith is not a meritorious work, nor is taking hold of His Grace.

To Him be all the Glory for providing it apart from which we would have no gift to take hold of.

It's obvious you don't care about what others say. That's why you're stuck in your lack of comprehension and illogical reasoning and defamation of other Christians.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Not a word about man's actions except actively taking hold of the gracious gift in Rom5:17 - which is commanded of men by the way. At least you're looking at 2 verses now instead of one. So, maybe there's some hope.

Faith is not a meritorious work, nor is taking hold of His Grace.

To Him be all the Glory for providing it apart from which we would have no gift to take hold of.

It's obvious you don't care about what others say. That's why you're stuck in your lack of comprehension and illogical reasoning and defamation of other Christians.
You bring mans actions into it, say goodby to Grace Salvation, its works
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Jesus said, I have done everything and all you must do is believe.
Jesus asked, do you believe?

I replied, yes I believe!

To the Calvinists I am promoting [(works based Salvation)] because I claim I said the word yes.

Remind you, Jesus said all the Father gave to Him will come to Him. How does a person therefore come to Jesus? By Belief. So no matter what we do to have Faith or Belief is doing something.

Guess that means the calvies aren't saved because they don't fulfill the Verse that Jesus proclaimed by (coming or having faith\belief in Jesus).
 

studier

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Jesus said, I have done everything and all you must do is believe.
Jesus asked, do you believe?

I replied, yes I believe!

To the Calvinists I am promoting [(works based Salvation)] because I claim I said the word yes.

Remind you, Jesus said all the Father gave to Him will come to Him. How does a person therefore come to Jesus? By Belief. So no matter what we do to have Faith or Belief is doing something.

Guess that means the calvies aren't saved because they don't fulfill the Verse that Jesus proclaimed by (coming or having faith\belief in Jesus).
Very odd system when it's thought through, which thinking might be works too now that I think about it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Jesus said, I have done everything and all you must do is believe.
Jesus asked, do you believe?

I replied, yes I believe!

To the Calvinists I am promoting [(works based Salvation)] because I claim I said the word yes.

Remind you, Jesus said all the Father gave to Him will come to Him. How does a person therefore come to Jesus? By Belief. So no matter what we do to have Faith or Belief is doing something.

Guess that means the calvies aren't saved because they don't fulfill the Verse that Jesus proclaimed by (coming or having faith\belief in Jesus).
If Jesus did everything to save you, why must you do something before you are saved ? Evidently all that Jesus did, didnt save you still
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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If Jesus did everything to save you, why must you do something before you are saved ? Evidently all that Jesus did, didnt save you still
Jesus said we would come to Him. So you need to understand that means you are either accepting or rejecting Him.
To come = going to
You are doing something whether you believe it or not because Jesus said you will be coming to Him and that means you will be doing something.
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Jesus said we would come to Him. So you need to understand that means you are either accepting or rejecting Him.
To come = going to
You are doing something whether you believe it or not because Jesus said you will be coming to Him and that means you will be doing something.
If Jesus did everything to save you, why must you do something before you are saved ? Evidently all that Jesus did, didnt save you still
Leave the fringes of universalism and strict determinism and find the great in-between where the truth lies.