Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

[brightfame52]

According to John 3:18, the only reason "some men are under condemnation" is because they have not believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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Those under condemnation cant be Justified as Per Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

They didnt have to believe to receive Justified to life, the Justification of life was the result of what Christ did for them before they were born

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.NKJV

 

[brightfame52]

I don't see how he didn't die for all men in what you posted, the mere fact it literally says so should be enough. when I read his word I often ask myself as to not add any personal interpretation is that what it says? or I imagine Jesus and him asking is that what I said?

I know you dont see.

 

[Blain]

I know you dont see.

Well it is just it literally says it in the scripture and all your doing is adding your own interpretation to it, again is that what it says?

 

[lrs68]

Well it is just it literally says it in the scripture and all your doing is adding your own interpretation to it, again is that what it says?

He knows what the Bible is saying word for word. He just disagrees with it. But he will get a chance to explain his understanding to God and see what God thinks since it was God who ultimately wrote Romans 5:18.

 

[Blain]

He knows what the Bible is saying word for word. He just disagrees with it. But he will get a chance to explain his understanding to God and see what God thinks since it was God who ultimately wrote Romans 5:18.

Well I personally think we all understand the word of God in different degrees but what he is doing is flat out rejecting what it clearly says, he says those with spiritual discernemtn would know it teaches the opposite but it doesn't take spiritual discernment to see what it clearly says

I mean I read and re read what he wrote but I just don't see anywhere in his post where it teaches the opposite, of course my eyes are bad but I don't think I missed anything

 

[Blain]

He knows what the Bible is saying word for word. He just disagrees with it. But he will get a chance to explain his understanding to God and see what God thinks since it was God who ultimately wrote Romans 5:18.

Well I personally think we all understand the word of God in different degrees but what he is doing is flat out rejecting what it clearly says, he says those with spiritual discernemtn would know it teaches the opposite but it doesn't take spiritual discernment to see what it clearly says

I mean I read and re read what he wrote but I just don't see anywhere in his post where it teaches the opposite, of course my eyes are bad but I don't think I missed anything

 

[lrs68]

Well I personally think we all understand the word of God in different degrees but what he is doing is flat out rejecting what it clearly says, he says those with spiritual discernemtn would know it teaches the opposite but it doesn't take spiritual discernment to see what it clearly says

I mean I read and re read what he wrote but I just don't see anywhere in his post where it teaches the opposite, of course my eyes are bad but I don't think I missed anything

He is taking what God wrote on paper and making it fit his doctrine. The fact he must do as you mentioned in your post indicates how incorrect his doctrine is.

 

[brightfame52]

Well it is just it literally says it in the scripture and all your doing is adding your own interpretation to it, again is that what it says?

I have news for you, I cant make you see.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The all men in Rom 5:18 is restricted to the Justified.

you keep saying that but what you refuse to acknowledge is:

if the "all men in Rom 5:18 is restricted to the Justified"

you've got the descendants of Adam who are not Justified under no condemnation from which they need justification

The light of Scripture shining on your claim reveals your error.

see what happens when you try to align Scripture to your dogma?
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[brightfame52]

you keep saying that but what you refuse to acknowledge is:

if the "all men in Rom 5:18 is restricted to the Justified"

you've got the descendants of Adam who are not Justified under no condemnation from which they need justification

The light of Scripture shining on your claim reveals your error.

see what happens when you try to align Scripture to your dogma?
.

Yes the all men is Rom 5:18b are Justified, so its limited to the Justified. They are the same ones God foreknew and predestinated Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Blain]

He knows what the Bible is saying word for word. He just disagrees with it. But he will get a chance to explain his understanding to God and see what God thinks since it was God who ultimately wrote Romans 5:18.

Well I personally think we all understand the word of God in different degrees but what he is doing is flat out rejecting what it clearly says, he says those with spiritual discernemtn would know it teaches the opposite but it doesn't take spiritual discernment to see what it clearly says

I mean I read and re read what he wrote but I just don't see anywhere in his post where it teaches the opposite, of course my eyes are bad but I don't think I missed anything

I have news for you, I cant make you see.

You can you just choose not you or perhaps you cannot and that is why you refuse to do so either way my question remains, is that what it says?

 

[brightfame52]

Well I personally think we all understand the word of God in different degrees but what he is doing is flat out rejecting what it clearly says, he says those with spiritual discernemtn would know it teaches the opposite but it doesn't take spiritual discernment to see what it clearly says

I mean I read and re read what he wrote but I just don't see anywhere in his post where it teaches the opposite, of course my eyes are bad but I don't think I missed anything

You can you just choose not you or perhaps you cannot and that is why you refuse to do so either way my question remains, is that what it says?

You at the Mercy of God friend

 

[Blain]

You at the Mercy of God friend

? what do you mean I am at the mercy of God?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Those under condemnation cant be Justified as Per Rom 5:18

now you're limiting the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe (Rom 1:16).

They didnt have to believe to receive Justified to life, the Justification of life was the result of what Christ did for them before they were born

Galatians 1:6-8 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

brightfame52 ... you were under condemnation before you were born again (if you are born again).

All descendants of Adam were/are/will be under condemnation (subject to sentencing) because of sins committed ... not sin committed by Adam, but because of their own sins they commit.

The word condemnation is translated from the Greek word katákrima which means the exact sentence of condemnation handed down after due process.

If you have not believed the gospel of Christ, you are under condemnation because you are still considered by God to be "in Adam". If you have believed the gospel of Christ, you are not under condemnation because you are considered by God to be "in Christ".

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.NKJV

changing the appearance of the font does not change the meaning of the text.

What you are doing is picking out snippets of Scripture and using them to support a meaning never intended by the Author of Scripture.
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[Clayman]

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No by no means does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all without exception, just because the word all is used. In fact, to the spiritually discerning it teaches the contrary, it teaches the limited atonement, or that Christ did not die for all men without exception, simply because the all men here that Justification of life came upon is limited to only some men, so the word all can only apply to all that received upon them Justification of life.

One can never form a doctrine from any one verse, yet the question you are asking is if we are to look at this one verse does it teach that all men without exception have access to Life eternal, then yes this verse does seem to saying that in isolation.

I mean take this verse to a classroom full of kids who have never read the bible and they would have to conclude whatever the first part of the verse is referring to it would appear all are under a certain condemnation due to one man, and conversely the second part of the verse is saying all men have been given a gift due to one man, what ever that is and that it will justify them of life.

Those who have read a few more chapters of the bible, will probably understand the free gift offered to all, is to be clothed in Christs righteousness so when God looks at us, he doesnt condemn us, for He sees Christ, and also know this can only happen for Christ has already paid the price of our condemnation and we have now inherited eternal life.

I don't understand why or how anyone can dispute what the verse is simply saying, yet if it is not meaning what it is saying then other verses would dispute or contradict it, yet I see that other verses only confirm and collaborate with this verse.

For instance "if I be lifted up then I will draw all men unto myself" or "God desires all men to be saved"

Etcetera Etcetera

 

[sawdust]

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No by no means does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all without exception, just because the word all is used. In fact, to the spiritually discerning it teaches the contrary, it teaches the limited atonement, or that Christ did not die for all men without exception, simply because the all men here that Justification of life came upon is limited to only some men, so the word all can only apply to all that received upon them Justification of life.

For its clear from other scripture that all men without exception are Justified before God, for instance Matt 5:45

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Cor 6:1

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Pet 2:9

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Rev 22:11

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Now the word unjust does mean being found guilty before God, in Gods court of law,

describes being found guilty in God's court of law, i.e. as a binding, legal infraction against His law which calls for divine retribution,
unjust, unrighteous, wicked.of one who breaks God's laws, unrighteous, sinful,

So basically its one God reckons guilty before Him as a law beaker.

It says He died for all, it doesn't say He saved all. If no-one is excused from sin then, no-one is excused from forgiveness. You can't have it both ways.

The sin barrier is removed. Now, whosoever believes can come and know the forgiveness that is in Christ. It is the refusal of man to believe and come that prevents them from receiving the justification of life, not God's willingness to give. He meets every man with grace and truth. They are without excuse.

John 1:29
On the next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:14
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory—the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes the all men is Rom 5:18b are Justified, so its limited to the Justified.

brightfame52 ... you are not reading with comprehension ... either that, or you are being deliberately obtuse.

What you have stated over and over in this thread:

The all men in Rom 5:18 is restricted to the Justified.​

Since (according to you) "all men" in Rom 5:18 is "restricted to the Justified" ... then that means only the "Justified" were (or are or will be) under condemnation ... and that means those who are not "Justified" were never (or are never or will never be) under condemnation and, therefore, there is nothing for which they are condemned so no justification needed for them.

You've got the "Justified" ones as the only ones under condemnation and in need of justification.

now do you "get it"???
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[studier]

@brightfame52 you're opening the Text and inserting an errant theology.

Close the book, take a deep breath, ask God to clear your thinking back to the foundation that Jesus is His Christ, open the Book with renewed and fresh eyes, and take His instruction FROM His Word and the counsel of several here who see this Scripture clearly and are trying to assist you to do the same.

Stay away for quite a while from the other thread re: God's Election.

 

[studier]

Believe God, receive truth from God and continue belief to God and be set free

Pretty simple in concept isn't it.

s anyone's obedience fulfilled, has anyone else been perfect as Son was and is for ever as risen for us all to beleive and stand in? Col1 :21-23

Being conformed to His likeness is most definitely a process. And, no, no one has been perfect like our Lord and first-born brother who died to bring us to perfection.

 

[tablet123]

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This does not mean that all people will be saved for they have to receive the free gift.

Which we see in the world that people reject the truth of salvation not believing it.

The Bible speaks all people will not be saved.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God is the Saviour of all people but that does not mean all people will be saved for they have to come to the knowledge of truth to be saved.

The requirement for salvation is to come to the knowledge of the truth but we see in the world many do not do that not believing the Bible, being an atheist, rejecting Jesus, or believing another religion.