your 40 stripes minus 1 contemplation was very thought provoking ...As I go over the arguments, the very real possibility occurs to me that while Christ atones for the sins of the world, only belief atones would unbelief considering what belief necessarily requires (influenced by my 40 stripes minus one contemplation).![]()
Thank you, so much, for that! I see there's about 2 and some fraction of hours between your reply and my posting and I had just signed in when I saw the 1-minute old notification it. And then, after a minute of taking my wonderment of that (I don't believe there are any such thing as coincidence), and as soon as I thought to reply on it, the site went down. So, I took it as a wink from the Spirit's "Amen," and the adversary throwing the characteristic fit especially because of that perfectly timed 'coincidence.'your 40 stripes minus 1 contemplation was very thought provoking ...
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I was taught that the reason they gave 40 stripes save 1 was because if the person who was meting out the stripes miscounted and gave more than 40, it would dishonor his brother.Thank you, so much, for that! I see there's about 2 and some fraction of hours between your reply and my posting and I had just signed in when I saw the 1-minute old notification it. And then, after a minute of taking my wonderment of that (I don't believe there are any such thing as coincidence), and as soon as I thought to reply on it, the site went down. So, I took it as a wink from the Spirit's "Amen," and the adversary throwing the characteristic fit especially because of that perfectly timed 'coincidence.'![]()
It seemed intuitive to me that 40 was the "full" penalty but it also seemed only to be an assumption, until now. Thank you.I was taught that the reason they gave 40 stripes save 1 was because if the person who was meting out the stripes miscounted and gave more than 40, it would dishonor his brother.
Deuteronomy 25:
1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
vs 2 – the judge determined the number "according to his fault" ... and the judgment would be meted out before the judge.
vs 3 – 40 stripes was the maximum penalty ... and if 40 was exceeded, that would dishonor the one at fault.
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Are you saying mans belief atones for unbelief, and not Christs atoning death ? Just askingAs I go over the arguments, the very real possibility occurs to me that while Christ atones for the sins of the world, only belief atones would unbelief considering what belief necessarily requires (influenced by my 40 stripes minus one contemplation).![]()
Not exactly, but it's hard to define spiritual realities other than in shadows, or as "through a glass darkly." As in the temple system of atonement, the 'sinner' had to place his hand upon the head of the sacrificial animal that thereby 'takes upon' his sin before it is offered on the alter. If he refuses to do that then, even if the lamb is slain, his sin remains upon him.Are you saying mans belief atones for unbelief, and not Christs atoning death ? Just asking
Well Jesus did atone for the sin of unbelief/disobedience for the elect, thats why they were reconciled to God by His death while they were unbelieving enemies, and ensured of further saving. Rom 5:10Not exactly, but it's hard to define spiritual realities other than in shadows, or as "through a glass darkly." As in the temple system of atonement, the 'sinner' had to place his hand upon the head of the sacrificial animal that thereby 'takes upon' his sin before it is offered on the alter. If he refuses to do that then, even if the lamb is slain, his sin remains upon him.
Well Jesus did atone for the sin of unbelief/disobedience for the elect, thats why they were reconciled to God by His death while they were unbelieving enemies, and ensured of further saving. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So unbelief was atoned for
No He atoned for them only whom He reconciled by His death and who shall be saved by His life as it says in Rom 5:10Atoned for once and for all, yes. I know you don't believe that faith is a requirement for the application of atonement. 'Whomsoever (faithfully) believes' is the explicit declaration of who faithfully is atoned for. There's no fine print of exceptions.
You're conscious is seared as someone mentioned repeatedly denying the truth is bound to do.No He atoned for them only whom He reconciled by His death and who shall be saved by His life as it says in Rom 5:10
See He died for their unbelief as sin so they can and do believe as evidence He died for their sins, however if one dies in their sins to include the sin of unbelief, then He didnt die for their sins as He speaks Jn 8:24You're conscious is seared as someone mentioned repeatedly denying the truth is bound to do.
See He died for their unbelief as sin so they can and do believe as evidence He died for their sins, however if one dies in their sins to include the sin of unbelief, then He didnt die for their sins as He speaks Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Jesus says later why they believe not Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
And He specifically stated He laid down His Life for the Sheep, so they will believe since their sins are atoned for Jn 10:11,15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Now if Christ didnt die for your sins, you cant believe in Him because you owe obedience to the law and it condemns you.
There's that "if" again. Jesus Himself clarified the condition 'if ye believe not' and followed up with His all-knowing assessment, "ye believe not.' He added nothing saying, 'because God would not have you believe."
Jesus died for the elects unbelief. Therefore God has mercy on their unbelief.
Jesus died for the elects unbelief. Therefore God has mercy on their unbelief.The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ.God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable..