Does man have a freewill ?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#381
Jul 3, 2015
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#381
@NewLifeInChrist there are also quite a few Pelagian heretics here.


Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verse 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#383
Mar 1, 2022
22,883
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#383
Everlasting-Grace said:
whatever, Your wrong. But I am sick of trying to prove that to you

it is the work of God we believe

we are saved by grace THROUGH faith. not of works.

Faith is not a work of man in which he can boast of saving himself. this is reformed theology. this is not found in the word of God

when your ready to look at the word. and stop looking at your doctrine. come talk to me.
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You mean when I agree with you, come back, right?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#388
Dec 18, 2021
7,052
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#388
Cameron143 said:
Who draws: the individual or God?
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once again

are you going to admit you erred and falsluy accused me

You said and I quote. "God does not use people to draw."

now your saying you said only "people can not draw to god."

which is not what you said

can you admit you made a mistake??

God draws you know I believe this.

why are you so unwilling to admit when you are wrong?

I mean I used your own words..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#390
Dec 18, 2021
7,052
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#390
Cameron143 said:
I understand perfectly well what you are saying. I don't believe it comports with scripture.
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does God use people to draw other to himself?

and You don't know what I am saying you prove it a lot when you continue to misrepresent what I said because you are not listening.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#391
Mar 1, 2022
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#391
Everlasting-Grace said:
once again

are you going to admit you erred and falsluy accused me

You said and I quote. "God does not use people to draw."

now your saying you said only "people can not draw to god."

which is not what you said

can you admit you made a mistake??

God draws you know I believe this.

why are you so unwilling to admit when you are wrong?

I mean I used your own words..
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I've given you the explanation for my statement. God does employ human agency. The human agency does not do the drawing. God does the drawing.

Please show me the verse that says people draw other people to God.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#392
Nov 21, 2020
7,084
686
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#392
Everlasting-Grace said:
Your also dead in sin, the wage of sin is death

yes, they can not do good. which is why they must be saved.

Receiving the gift of God in faith is not a good deed. It is acknowledging you are dead, you are where you deserve to be. and your rightly judged and need saved..
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One must be saved before they can believe. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

A lost person is still under the control of the god of this world, the devil, and so the devil keeps him from believing Lk 8:12

Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#393
Mar 1, 2022
22,883
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#393
Everlasting-Grace said:
does God use people to draw other to himself?

and You don't know what I am saying you prove it a lot when you continue to misrepresent what I said because you are not listening.
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He uses people. He does the drawing. Please show the verse where anyone but God draws people to Himself.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#394
Aug 22, 2014
3,311
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#394
lrs68 said:
But they can reject Him?
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What do you mean? We all reject God until He draws us and He grants up repentance and He spiritually resurrects us and reconciles our BRAND NEW spirits to Him self. We ALL reject Him and the oly way any of us "choose" Him is by His power, not our will. We are NOT saved by our will. ALL glory goes to Him, even for what you call "my choice".

I see what you mean, I understand how you look at it having looked at it the same way myself for a couple years while saved, so my only question for you is "who do you say get's the glory and full credit for this choice you're saying is necessary for salvation?"
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#395
Dec 18, 2021
7,052
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#395
Cameron143 said:
I've given you the explanation for my statement. God does employ human agency. The human agency does not do the drawing. God does the drawing.

Please show me the verse that says people draw other people to God.
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so you refuse to acknowledge you said God does not use people to draw others to him.

if you can not humble yourself and admit you erroed. I can not trust you with anything else.

I did nto ask for an explanation. I asked for an apology

ie. Yes I did say this, But I meant this would suffice

saying I never said this (as you continue to do) is just pride.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#396
Dec 18, 2021
7,052
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#396
brightfame52 said:
One must be saved before they can believe.
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then they do not need to believe. because they are already saved.

Its like saying a person must be saved out of a burning building. before they can trust the person who came to save them to save them

thats nonsensical. If they are already saved. they do not have to do anything.. they are already saved
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#397
Dec 18, 2021
7,052
2,191
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#397
Jimbone said:
What do you mean? We all reject God until He draws us and He grants up repentance and He spiritually resurrects us and reconciles our BRAND NEW spirits to Him self. We ALL reject Him and the oly way any of us "choose" Him is by His power, not our will. We are NOT saved by our will. ALL glory goes to Him, even for what you call "my choice".

I see what you mean, I understand how you look at it having looked at it the same way myself for a couple years while saved, so my only question for you is "who do you say get's the glory and full credit for this choice you're saying is necessary for salvation?"
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those who do not believe are condemned already (the words of Jesu)

Your not made alive, or forgiven, because you repent from a state of unbelief to belief.

Yes, He must grant us repentance. but he will not deny us if we repent. He already paid the price. and places his salvation at our feet. we have to believe him or reject him, it is not him
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#398
Mar 1, 2022
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#398
Everlasting-Grace said:
so you refuse to acknowledge you said God does not use people to draw others to him.

if you can not humble yourself and admit you erroed. I can not trust you with anything else.

I did nto ask for an explanation. I asked for an apology

ie. Yes I did say this, But I meant this would suffice

saying I never said this (as you continue to do) is just pride.
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So...no verse? I explained my statement. You can accept it or not.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#399
Dec 18, 2021
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#399
Cameron143 said:
So...no verse? I explained my statement. You can accept it or not.
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until you acknowledge you made an error. I am not saying anything else.

You can show some humility. or show me I need to move on and prove I did not falsely accuse you. but you have falsely accused me

again, explaining what you meant does not help. You accused me of misrepresenting you when I quoted your exact words. Not you refuse to apologize.

Don't ask for us to do something, when you made a mistake and will not even admit it.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Well-known member
#400
May 21, 2023
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#400
Cameron143 said:
The Jewish audience. Paul confirms this in Romans where he speaks of a remnant saved by grace.
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Matthew 22:14 only applies to the Jews in the audience but not to the gentiles???
Is this what you believe?

Why would God invite "many Jews" but only choose a "few"?

Was Jesus not talking about the world in Matthew 22:14 and not just the audience in front of Him?
 
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