Does man have a freewill ?

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Cameron143

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The battle of wills has certainly been pervasive ever since. I mean, the serpent managed to convince Eve that eating of the tokogae was a good idea, and Adam agreed, and man and woman have rarely agreed ever since, not without one submitting to the other. :unsure: That well might be lesson101 in the book of life, Proper Submittance (and that has no regard to reproductive organs other than in the context of reproduction).
You make a good point, but I was simply making a joke.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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@Dus

So yes we have freewill, and the key is to remember that God is not constrained by the limitations of time like we are.
Its not free from its captivity to sin nature, nor the sovereignty of God. But man is a free moral agent responsible for his free choices, even though he is a slave to sin
 

lrs68

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Like I said, I dont believe you understand a word of that passage, dont expect me labor it for you, you dont ppay attention to nothing Im saying
I only expect that you would take the meaning of all verses and pervert them to say how you want them to say.
 
Dec 18, 2021
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Had to pull your words out of quote.. Flaw of being unable to edit after a time expires

Most of what you say here is true. Grace is extended to all. Faith, however, is not.
Faith is extended to all. However. Not everyone will trust God.

the ability to trust in God in all is there. romans 1 makes this clear. It is not God who keeps it from them, it is them who hide it in their hearts. and deny it..

thgats why they have no excuse

And saying that I don't believe faith is necessary is not so. I'm simply saying spiritually dead individuals don't do spiritually alive things.
Trusting in God to recieve his salvation is not a spiritually alive thing, it is Gods demand that must be completed for one to be made spiritually alive.

in order for this to happen. God must give that spiritually dead person the ability to chose.

You call this being born again, but it can't be. God does not make people alive while still under the penalty of sin.. the penalty must be removed first.

I call it the drawing of God and all he does to bring people to faith. or force a person to reject him.

God gets the glory in all ways

Biblically, hearing isn't mere auditory hearing. It is hearing with understanding.
Yes. Its why Jesus said in John 6 we literally must gnaw and chew on the word.. We do not just taste it. we savor it. we test it, we inspect it.

if we like it we react to it. If we do not. we do not react.

He who believes i no longer condemned, he who does not believe remains in a condemned state

Philippians 1:29 says...for unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but...Faith is given to believers. It is produced by the Holy Spirit employing the word of God...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Yes. but as proven in John 6 and all through the gospels. the words were given to man, and they heard.

But not everyone believed.

the spirit gives life. the words are spirit and life.

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word

lack of faith comes by hearing, and not believing the word.

Word of God yields hearing.
Hearing yields faith.
yes but not everyone has faith. so the word. while it has power. it must be believed to be accepted and trusted.



It is always an act of God when someone truly believes.
never said otherwise. But the person still must believe

Jesus was sent to the house of Israel. he cried over them lamenting the fact he continually through the years wanted to gather them as a mother hen, but they were unwilling


So, far from finding faith unnecessary, it is vital to becoming a Christian. But for it to occur, the Holy Spirit must already be working in an individual.
if i am already born again, the wage of sin is already removed. hence faith is unnecessary

While I do agree that God may do this over a period of time, making use of learning and experience, faith comes at a particular point in time. One didn't believe, and now they do.
True, but that not caused by regeneration. regeneration is caused by the fact they were justified. and justification is through faith

And my apologies. I didn't mean to infer upon you things you do not believe. Grace and peace.
No problem and accepted Praise God for his love and forgiveness
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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@Dus



Its not free from its captivity to sin nature, nor the sovereignty of God. But man is a free moral agent responsible for his free choices, even though he is a slave to sin

The heart of the issue extends into an existential arena. For example, the USA is known as the 'land of the free,' yet no one is 'free' to do just anything they'd like to without regard to his neighbor. If you speak in terms of absolutes, then no one is free, however, no one is absolutely bound either.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Had to pull your words out of quote.. Flaw of being unable to edit after a time expires


Faith is extended to all. However. Not everyone will trust God.

the ability to trust in God in all is there. romans 1 makes this clear. It is not God who keeps it from them, it is them who hide it in their hearts. and deny it..

thgats why they have no excuse


Trusting in God to recieve his salvation is not a spiritually alive thing, it is Gods demand that must be completed for one to be made spiritually alive.

in order for this to happen. God must give that spiritually dead person the ability to chose.

You call this being born again, but it can't be. God does not make people alive while still under the penalty of sin.. the penalty must be removed first.

I call it the drawing of God and all he does to bring people to faith. or force a person to reject him.

God gets the glory in all ways


Yes. Its why Jesus said in John 6 we literally must gnaw and chew on the word.. We do not just taste it. we savor it. we test it, we inspect it.

if we like it we react to it. If we do not. we do not react.

He who believes i no longer condemned, he who does not believe remains in a condemned state


Yes. but as proven in John 6 and all through the gospels. the words were given to man, and they heard.

But not everyone believed.

the spirit gives life. the words are spirit and life.

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word

lack of faith comes by hearing, and not believing the word.


yes but not everyone has faith. so the word. while it has power. it must be believed to be accepted and trusted.




never said otherwise. But the person still must believe

Jesus was sent to the house of Israel. he cried over them lamenting the fact he continually through the years wanted to gather them as a mother hen, but they were unwilling



if i am already born again, the wage of sin is already removed. hence faith is unnecessary


True, but that not caused by regeneration. regeneration is caused by the fact they were justified. and justification is through faith


No problem and accepted Praise God for his love and forgiveness
Let's try this way:
What is the source of faith?
When God's word goes forth, does it ever not accomplish what God desires it to accomplish?
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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The heart of the issue extends into an existential arena. For example, the USA is known as the 'land of the free,' yet no one is 'free' to do just anything they'd like to without regard to his neighbor. If you speak in terms of absolutes, then no one is free, however, no one is absolutely bound either.
Huh ?
 
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In your understanding of Scripture, then, does one become a sheep after hearing, or is one a sheep before hearing, and being a sheep facilitates hearing? Being a sheep is also equivalent to being classified as wheat contrasted against being a tare, for the wheat is saved, and the tares are destroyed. Tares are sown by the enemy (the devil) in the same field as the wheat. In your theology, then, can a tare choose to become wheat? In your theology, since we were by nature children of wrath before we came to believe, is this not the natural state man is born into as a result of being born after Adam? We have quite a few Pelagian heretics here who deny the natural state of man, of whom Scripture says he can neither receive nor comprehend the spiritual things of God. The gospel message is foolishness to him, and yet people say that guy will choose to believe it in his incurably wicked heart, which is a bad tree incapable of bringing forth good fruit. And Scripture also delegates salvation to being of the desire and will of God and not the desire, effort, or will of man, and yet so many say it it by man's will, which they claim to be free, even though Scriptures never says man's will is free. In fact, Scripture proclaims the natural man to be a slave to sin and a lover of darkness who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. It is Jesus who sets us free.
Yes, in my theology a peson who is dead in trespasses and sins and is by nature a child of wrath can be made alive by Christ. That is the good news of the gospel.

2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Eph 2:1–3)​
 

lrs68

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God told Moshe that He DESIRES that no one should perish and that everyone should choose life.

80% of all creation of humanity is going to Hell.

So God desires one thing but the opposite is happening. I suppose that is God getting His Will just the way He wants it even though His MOUTH said the very opposite...:unsure:
 

Cameron143

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God told Moshe that He DESIRES that no one should perish and that everyone should choose life.

80% of all creation of humanity is going to Hell.

So God desires one thing but the opposite is happening. I suppose that is God getting His Will just the way He wants it even though His MOUTH said the very opposite...:unsure:
Is God obligated to act on His desire?
 

lrs68

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Is God obligated to act on His desire?
I am saying we should pay attention to what God said because it shows us that at least with Moshe He doesn't desire any person to perish and people should choose life.

If we think something else we make God a liar.
 

Cameron143

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I am saying we should pay attention to what God said because it shows us that at least with Moshe He doesn't desire any person to perish and people should choose life.

If we think something else we make God a liar.
God is able to save everyone. He doesn't. There must be some divine purpose in that.